48 replies to this topic

[Kampfer]

There were mechs not being used from the day they were released, nothing has changed with a few mechs adding that are considered good and being used heavily.

New thread please this one is pointless

[Coolant]

I can't imagine, in any scenario, how the OP's premise is the greatest threat to the game. Lack of content is the greatest...

[C E Dwyer]

I don't find the Crabs 'power creep' that impressive, its far less bother some than a dire with gauss,erppc

As for the Gargoyle, its a very good assault if used properly, its a mobile assault with firepower that isn't so hot its a big deal on CW maps where it performs better in more mobile situations

[Chagatay]

Brody319, on 21 December 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I enjoy the Gargoyle quite a bit. Though you can't really play it like an assault with lots of big guns and lots of armor, gotta play it more like a medium...which is a trend that affects way to many clan mechs.

Well let me put it another way. The Gargoyle is the shield and Warhawk is the sword of assault mechs in CW. Dire can be used but its speed hurts it alot there.

[Xetelian]

As a mighty thread warrior I've read and introducing new mechs to buy is probably going to get a balance pass.

Wish we could have MASC

[Sjorpha]

Brody319, on 21 December 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Blanket Nerfs never work. They just render entire chassis even more useless. To the point where no one will pilot them even as a joke.

I have absolutely no idea what part of my post you think you are answering here, there certainly wasn't any "blanket" in my post.

What is a "blanket nerf" anyways, can you give an example?

[Brody319]

Sjorpha, on 21 December 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

I have absolutely no idea what part of my post you think you are answering here, there certainly wasn't any "blanket" in my post.

What is a "blanket nerf" anyways, can you give an example?

A Blanket nerf refers to nerfing an entire section of something in order to fix issues. You said "nerf the clans" that would just raise more issues. If we just "Increase the heat of all clan medium lasers" thats a blanket nerf, and wouldn't fix the Laser vomit timberwolf, or any of the mechs that use medium lasers, it would just ruin the mechs that Rely on those weapons to even be viable.

If you really think all the clan mechs need a nerf then you must be really bad at the game, because the Lynx, Adder, Kit fox, Nova, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle, and summoner are all terrible right now.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Bo-ho-hoo i cant anymore mow down half the enemy team with my cheesewhale because crab

[lsp]

Khzorran, on 21 December 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

A smart Direwolf pilot knows not to hang around in front of a king crab for long. its PPFLD is far superior to almost anything you can put on any clan mech.
I have yet to lose a single 1v1 in my crab vs any direwolf due to duel AC 20's

Dual ac20's isn't even that impressive, my 55 ton WVR-7K has a 45point alpha.(srm's with artemis+the quirks) And can and has soloed direwhales and kingcrabs alike. It's easy when I out torso twist and outspeed both mechs. With that said I would rather fight a crab than a direwhale. They're easier to kill.(because of their ppfld loadouts) 90kph I just watch them spin in circles not able to shoot me.

Edited by lsp, 21 December 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

SpeedingBus, on 21 December 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

PGI keeps releasing crappy clan mechs because they can't afford to give clans any more OP mechs. Seriously the gargoyle is case and point with the stupid speed they gave it made it so its weapon arrangement suck or it would just be a timber but on steroids.

You realize the loadout is based completely on the TRO variants right? Basically PGI didn't do anything to it, FASA or whomever owned the rights at the time the 3050 TRO did it all.

[Brody319]

Cookiemonter669, on 21 December 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Bo-ho-hoo i cant anymore mow down half the enemy team with my cheesewhale because crab

I already said this isn't about the Clans vs IS. This is entirely about the IS. If PGI allows future IS mechs to power creep like the king crab almost did, you will see the complete destruction of entire weight classes because none of the others will be able to stand up to the peak.

[DaZur]

OP... No offense but this is a silly argument.

What you call "power creep" is also called technological advancement... It's inherent in any game that models a timeline with parallel advancement in machines of war.

WWI - Started with Eindeckers and Morane-Saulnier and ended with Forkkers DR-1 and Sopwith Camels...

WWII - Zeros and Peashooters and ended with Heins and Mustangs

etc...etc..etc.. It's the nature of the beast and is unavoidable.

Now, having said all that... There will be players (like myself) who tend to buck the power curve and choose to run non-meta mechs either because we perform very well with them or out of purely aesthetic / nostalgic reasons.

Not everyone is a slave to the forgoing meta...

[Sjorpha]

Brody319, on 21 December 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

A Blanket nerf refers to nerfing an entire section of something in order to fix issues. You said "nerf the clans" that would just raise more issues. If we just "Increase the heat of all clan medium lasers" thats a blanket nerf, and wouldn't fix the Laser vomit timberwolf, or any of the mechs that use medium lasers, it would just ruin the mechs that Rely on those weapons to even be viable.

If you really think all the clan mechs need a nerf then you must be really bad at the game, because the Lynx, Adder, Kit fox, Nova, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle, and summoner are all terrible right now.

Oh, you completely misread my post then. Your answer has nothing to do with my point, and I'm quite aware of which clan mechs are where in the meta.

My point was a principal one on game balancing, I'm saying that the only balancing alternative to power creeping the suboptimal strategies is to nerf the optimal ones. It doesn't really matter which they are, it is true whichever mech happens to be the strong or weak one, so arguing about the clans is just a red herring to my post.

When I say "nerf the clans" I am not talking about a blanket nerf to the clan mechs, nor am I advocating a nerf at all. What I'm saying is that currently the strongest dropdeck and mechs in the game are built around the clan triad, therefore the only balancing options is to either decide that the triad is the desired balance point to which other options should be buffed (power creep), or to nerf the triad. Capiche?

[Anjian]

Power creep is inevitable with every game franchise. I think MWO has well managed that with micro nerfs and boosts.

No I think the biggest problem with the game is that new and newer mech content becomes less and less significant after the game has reached a peak. Once the iconic and "good" mechs are in the game, there is less incentive for people to buy new incoming mechs when the old one does the job or when they already acquired their favorite iconic mech. There is a name for this phenomena, its called diminishing returns. After this, every new mech comes out, perhaps after the Resistance Collection, less and less people will buy them, despite it still takes equal effort to make these mechs.

The probable counter to this is for PGI to do something bold and drastic, like finally introducing the Unseen. But then assuming theoritically this is done, what next?

[DaZur]

Anjian, on 22 December 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

Power creep is inevitable with every game franchise. I think MWO has well managed that with micro nerfs and boosts.

No I think the biggest problem with the game is that new and newer mech content becomes less and less significant after the game has reached a peak. Once the iconic and "good" mechs are in the game, there is less incentive for people to buy new incoming mechs when the old one does the job or when they already acquired their favorite iconic mech. There is a name for this phenomena, its called diminishing returns. After this, every new mech comes out, perhaps after the Resistance Collection, less and less people will buy them, despite it still takes equal effort to make these mechs.

The probable counter to this is for PGI to do something bold and drastic, like finally introducing the Unseen. But then assuming theoritically this is done, what next?

True...

That said, two identical class mechs with the same load-outs can be diametrically different dependent upon the location of their hard-points.

I.e.... a mech with it's hard-points in it's knees is inferior to a mech with it's hard-points in it's shoulders.

[Sable]

Mudhutwarrior, on 21 December 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

So far its pretty rare for a crab to come out on top of a dire. I drive both and If it comes down to it the Dire wins.

wait what??? I was in my crab the other day and took out a direwolf and timberwolf at the same time. I still don't even have elites on it yet. Fools tend to be overconfident in their "clan tech". Skills always wins. Saying the direwolf will always win when the crab brings as much power to the field is silly.

[Procale]

Brody319, on 21 December 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

With the King Crab we saw something that could become a huge problem later on if it continues.
Power Creeping.

If PGI releases future IS mechs and balances them by looking at the clan mechs, you will see a lot of chassis not being used at all.

For example if they released say the Black Knight mech.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Black_Knight
If they gave this mechs the hardpoint numbers and general balance of the Timberwolf, we would see almost all other IS heavies be abandoned

This isn't about the balance of the Clan mechs vs IS mechs, this is just about IS mechs in general. If PGI continues to balance new IS mechs by looking at "holy trinity" a lot of IS mechs will get trashed.

I know a lot of people will just pout and say "yea but clans still OP so its only fair that IS gets broken mechs!1!1!!". But really I don't want to see every IS mech except 1 in each weight class just thrown away. which is why we should totally buff the summoner, clan lights, ice ferret, and nova.

So IS gets a mech that can compete with clans and all of the sudden that mech is broken and any new IS mechs will be overpowered? You have got to be kidding me, why aren't we talking about future mythical op clan mechs instead? Sounds like this thread was started by a mech pilot who doesn't know how to deal with the king crab. I've killed many of them. Try getting better instead of insisting the whole game get dumbed down so you can kill things freely in your favorite clan mech.

[Brody319]

Procale, on 22 December 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

So IS gets a mech that can compete with clans and all of the sudden that mech is broken and any new IS mechs will be overpowered? You have got to be kidding me, why aren't we talking about future mythical op clan mechs instead? Sounds like this thread was started by a mech pilot who doesn't know how to deal with the king crab. I've killed many of them. Try getting better instead of insisting the whole game get dumbed down so you can kill things freely in your favorite clan mech.

evidently you didn't read my post fully. I said this has nothing to do with Clans. Simply that if PGI power creeps all the current chassis might be ignored and trashed. Sounds like this post was started by a IS pilot who doesn't know how to read.

[Procale]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

evidently you didn't read my post fully. I said this has nothing to do with Clans. Simply that if PGI power creeps all the current chassis might be ignored and trashed. Sounds like this post was started by a IS pilot who doesn't know how to read.

You don't have to specifically say something when you so obviously imply it.

[Brody319]

Procale, on 22 December 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

You don't have to specifically say something when you so obviously imply it.

Yes, its not that I enjoy seeing all the different mechs do well even if they are "bad". Nope its just that I don't want the clans to do good. /internet sarcasm

I really just don't want to see an entire weight class of mechs rendered completely useless because PGI wanted to make an IS mech with clan mechs as the balance focus. Honestly at this point. PGI could release a King Crab with ECM, 3 AMS, Gauss cooldown quirks, ERPPC quirks, and a 50% speed increase and I'm sure most of these IS whiners would be like "well, Direwolf is still OP, its only fair since now maybe possibly the king crab can hold up."