67 replies to this topic

[ztac]

Last 2-3 hours no ghost capping? so what about before that ? Let's suppose that the 15 slots have all been won by ghost capping and the defence is 15-0 down and the attackers are starting with 100%... ghost capping therefore played a significant part!

And even if it was just 2-3% if the flip was close enough that could be the deciding factor.

Edited by ztac, 29 December 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[BoloJoe]

Really like the idea of auto wins for only less than 12 attackers/defenders in queue.

Not only will it be an incentive to attack/defend more planets, it will also stop the multiple auto wins that large factions currently have that is their unfair advantage.

PGI please make victories/defeats the main deciding factor for possessing a planet!

Edited by BoloJoe, 31 December 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Nauht]

LOL@ at the excuses coming in and the armchair math genius whining.

FACT - the players don't have all the data and know jack about the algorithms used.
FACT - PGI have all the data and know how the algorithms are used.

You're all making up anecdotal evidence to bolster your own agenda focusing on that "2-3%" number while forgetting the rest of the post from the man himself, the guy with all the numbers and THE ONLY ONE who can see the bigger overall picture.

"so they are playing almost no role in decisions" - the % number could be higher, it could even be arbitrary, fact is the impact to CW is minimal.

Next excuse...

[ztac]

The actual impact of anything in CW only happens in the last 2-3 hours, But it is disheartening when you are attacking against a larger defending force only to see that despite people constantly reporting wins the territory goes down. I think this is the main problem for people , It is bad enough that as things stand EU players don't really have any effect on CW and their only impact may come from ideas generated that PGI may or may not use (we all know that whether they read the forums is open to discussion).

If they were to implement a system counting all matches as part of the war effort then ghost capping would certainly have an effect on the outcome. But like I said the biggest problem is that it happens at all and the sinking feeling people get from no progress being made and even being driven back from Ghost Capping!

Indeed the system could be altered to take into account all matches and set the flip at some stupid number of matches..... like 1000+ 10000+ etc etc instead of a timer ..... that way there could be no cramming in the last hour. Another thing is that you only get 1 planet to attack ... in theory the whole front should be opened , Which faction can help which faction implemented too and an algorithm to take into account lesser populations (could work against factions though if one faction was small and attracted better players).

But who knows where PGI ultimately want to take CW? Obviously they can't promise anything if they don't know just how far they can go (limitations of game engines , resources etc etc).

[StillRadioactive]

Nauht, on 29 December 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

LOL@ at the excuses coming in and the armchair math genius whining.

FACT - the players don't have all the data and know jack about the algorithms used.
FACT - PGI have all the data and know how the algorithms are used.

You're all making up anecdotal evidence to bolster your own agenda focusing on that "2-3%" number while forgetting the rest of the post from the man himself, the guy with all the numbers and THE ONLY ONE who can see the bigger overall picture.

"so they are playing almost no role in decisions" - the % number could be higher, it could even be arbitrary, fact is the impact to CW is minimal.

Next excuse...

FACT - Karl Berg explained how matchmaker works already. He's the guy that wrote it, so I'd say he's pretty trustworthy.

With the way he wrote it, it takes 36 players on the less-populated faction to completely lock out the possibility of auto-wins.

Doesn't matter if there are 48 attackers, or 480. If there are 36 people defending, there are no auto-wins.

Also, if there are no defenders at all, only one team is queued for an auto-win at a time. This means that the auto-win rate is capped at 6 points per hour, and any attackers beyond the first 24 on an undefended planet are wasting their time.

TL;DR: Defend your planets, and auto-wins won't happen regardless of population disparity.

[Grynos]

Defend your planets, and auto-wins won't happen regardless of population disparity.


Defend your planets successfully have zero net gain on changing the amount of wins on the map. The only way currently to win is to be on defending before an enemy has queued, for a counter-attack, then pray that you keep the population on that planet ahead of the amount of attackers for the rest of the day, oh and do not lose.

[BoloJoe]

Today is a perfect example of the broken auto win system (ghost capping).

A couple hours before ceasefire Tantara (Liao space) had 0 wins. 24-36 Davion players queued up and took it to 100%. And that was with 60+ players defending Maladar against 36 attackers. How many auto wins did the defenders get on Maladar? I don't know but by ceasefire it went from around 80% down to 20%.

Even if Liao started defending Tantara it would have been impossible to save the planet - every match would have to have been counterattack and a win. So this planet was lost to Davion without any player vs player action!

You wonder why Davion teams aren't fighting Clans.....why bother when they can take planets so easily from other IS factions.

With the auto win system the Faction with the bigger player base will automatically have an advantage.

[Caustic Canid]

I know "ghost capping" is a problem, and I'm sure there are some people using it as a strategy, but I also think some of it is coming from people just looking for a game.

Since the planets now show the number of people attacking/defending, people have a tendency to flock to those planets in hopes of finding a match, only to be thrown into an empty game, which is no fun.

There needs to be a better system in place for making games on OTHER planets so that the people who just want to play can be sent to those planets instead of adding to the cap problem.

I'm really starting to think that A.I. piloted mechs would help this. Even if the attackers kill the A.I., if it was made sufficiently difficult enough, it would still burn attacker time, and slow down the capping process. You could limit the number of attackers to 24 per planet (this number could also be based on some percentage of defending faction players online), so there could never be more than 2 vs. A.I. games going at once. That way it would take several hours to completely take a planet instead of ~an hour.

Also move the ceasefires around randomly so people don't know when it will happen, which should pretty much get rid of the last minute rush to conquer worlds.

Edited by Caustic Canid, 30 December 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[Driftwoood]

StillRadioactive, on 30 December 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

FACT - Karl Berg explained how matchmaker works already. He's the guy that wrote it, so I'd say he's pretty trustworthy.

Where is this post? Can't find anything with the useless forum search function...



So here were tonight's numbers on the Liao / Davion border 2 hrs before cease fire...

TANTARA (bottom of list): Davion attacking with 44 pilots, so 3 units... though they really only needed 1... At ceasefire, the planet was 100%, hope they had fun against the turrets...

MALADAR (top of list): We were attacking with up to 4 units throughout the night (never saw 5 units, but it might have happened), against 5+ Davion defenders... though we got it up to 80% at one point, Davion successfully defended it back to 33% before ceasefire...

While I believed 4 units was enough to prevent being ghost dropped on, I'm now skeptical, as in the course of 1 match (which we successfully defended), the planet went from 60% (9/15) to 33% (5/15) = 4 losses... now, it could be that our group of 8 pushed the number of pilots up to 5 units (60+) and the other 4 teams lost... but I don't know... my unit won 4/5 tonight, all on defense unfortunately... I guess everyone else was getting stomped?

Boy, I wish we could see battle results somewhere on the planet's page to put all this to bed...

Edited by Driftwoood, 30 December 2014 - 11:43 PM.

[Mycrus]

Driftwoood, on 30 December 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Where is this post? Can't find anything with the useless forum search function...



So here were tonight's numbers on the Liao / Davion border 2 hrs before cease fire...

TANTARA (bottom of list): Davion attacking with 44 pilots, so 3 units... though they really only needed 1... At ceasefire, the planet was 100%, hope they had fun against the turrets...

MALADAR (top of list): We were attacking with up to 4 units throughout the night (never saw 5 units, but it might have happened), against 5+ Davion defenders... though we got it up to 80% at one point, Davion successfully defended it back to 33% before ceasefire...

While I believed 4 units was enough to prevent being ghost dropped on, I'm now skeptical, as in the course of 1 match (which we successfully defended), the planet went from 60% (9/15) to 33% (5/15) = 4 losses... now, it could be that our group of 8 pushed the number of pilots up to 5 units (60+) and the other 4 teams lost... but I don't know... my unit won 4/5 tonight, all on defense unfortunately... I guess everyone else was getting stomped?

Boy, I wish we could see battle results somewhere on the planet's page to put all this to bed...

yep this whole debacle reminds of the tryhards trying to protect their pee pee cees win button way back when...

[Karl Marlow]

Driftwoood, on 30 December 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Where is this post? Can't find anything with the useless forum search function...



So here were tonight's numbers on the Liao / Davion border 2 hrs before cease fire...

TANTARA (bottom of list): Davion attacking with 44 pilots, so 3 units... though they really only needed 1... At ceasefire, the planet was 100%, hope they had fun against the turrets...

MALADAR (top of list): We were attacking with up to 4 units throughout the night (never saw 5 units, but it might have happened), against 5+ Davion defenders... though we got it up to 80% at one point, Davion successfully defended it back to 33% before ceasefire...

While I believed 4 units was enough to prevent being ghost dropped on, I'm now skeptical, as in the course of 1 match (which we successfully defended), the planet went from 60% (9/15) to 33% (5/15) = 4 losses... now, it could be that our group of 8 pushed the number of pilots up to 5 units (60+) and the other 4 teams lost... but I don't know... my unit won 4/5 tonight, all on defense unfortunately... I guess everyone else was getting stomped?

Boy, I wish we could see battle results somewhere on the planet's page to put all this to bed...

Um. That was 2 hours before ceasefire. YOu had 3 60+ groups defending agaisnt teh clans. While admirable why didn't you go defend your own planet?

[Driftwoood]

ThomasMarik, on 30 December 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Um. That was 2 hours before ceasefire. YOu had 3 60+ groups defending agaisnt teh clans. While admirable why didn't you go defend your own planet?

Umm... you realize in those 3x 60+, there probably wasn't a single Liao pilot? Those are Kurita, FRR, etc planets under attack that we have the option of helping to defend from clans...

But as you can see, we can barely muster enough pilots to fight on one planet, let alone the other one on the Davion border...

[StillRadioactive]

I'm with you... I think a results page of all the matches for a planet would be fantastic.

I mean, I'm arguing that ghost wins aren't happening on defended worlds because that's what my experience + the information Karl Berg put out about matchmaker both support.

Your experience is pointing you in a different direction, and that's unfortunate.

I firmly believe that they're not happening during prime hours, and that opinion is unlikely to change short of seeing a straight-up results sheet.

Until then, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

[Texas Merc]

its the coordination in the davion TS to stall out units that are in game near the cf times then insert units that can get into the last batch of ques before the cf occurs allowing them to have no units to fight against and thus easily flip the planets.

its a numbers game but one of great coordination.

[BoloJoe]

As you can see above why waste the manpower defended Tantara when it was a lost cause.
Even on Maladar Liao didn't have 36+ players the whole night to lock out the auto wins. I would like to know how many "ghost caps" that planet had in the last couple of hours before the ceasefire.

If you can't match the other Faction's numbers you can win every match but the auto wins from the uncontested groups will flip the planet.

[Willard Phule]

StillRadioactive, on 30 December 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

FACT - Karl Berg explained how matchmaker works already. He's the guy that wrote it, so I'd say he's pretty trustworthy.

Where. Where did he explain this?

Now, before you start throwing links up all over the place.....I'm curious as to what information has actually been put out SINCE the re-write at the time of the Clan release.

Believe it or not, Egomane and I both tried to rustle up all the posts that explain how the matchmaker works....he even went so far as to make a post directed at Karl requesting an explanation.....but, ultimately, to compile all the information that explains how it works, you've got to read multiple posts......most of which are over a year old.

My point is that there is NO current information with regard to how the matchmaker works. Anyone who says they know how it works is lying to you, unless it's Karl.....and he's not forthcoming with any information.


And besides that, what the hell is Russ doing putting out information on Twitter again? Didn't he learn his lesson with the whole Reddit fiasco?

Someone should tell Russ it would be a good idea for MW:O to host it's own forums so they can put out information....instead of using Twitter.

Edited by Willard Phule, 31 December 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[Grynos]

Driftwoood, on 30 December 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Where is this post? Can't find anything with the useless forum search function...



So here were tonight's numbers on the Liao / Davion border 2 hrs before cease fire...

TANTARA (bottom of list): Davion attacking with 44 pilots, so 3 units... though they really only needed 1... At ceasefire, the planet was 100%, hope they had fun against the turrets...

MALADAR (top of list): We were attacking with up to 4 units throughout the night (never saw 5 units, but it might have happened), against 5+ Davion defenders... though we got it up to 80% at one point, Davion successfully defended it back to 33% before ceasefire...

While I believed 4 units was enough to prevent being ghost dropped on, I'm now skeptical, as in the course of 1 match (which we successfully defended), the planet went from 60% (9/15) to 33% (5/15) = 4 losses... now, it could be that our group of 8 pushed the number of pilots up to 5 units (60+) and the other 4 teams lost... but I don't know... my unit won 4/5 tonight, all on defense unfortunately... I guess everyone else was getting stomped?

Boy, I wish we could see battle results somewhere on the planet's page to put all this to bed...

The real thing to notice though is the 50/60+ on Maladar though, because earlier in the day 6pm EST Maladar was 100% with 60+ on both sides. Now the minute that there were more Davions queued up on Maladar it changed who was attacking ( which gains points on success ) and who was defending ( which gains no points on success ) . Which means a defensive win , constitutes nothing towards changing the percentage but rather just keeps that percentage the same. Once Davions were on the attacking end of Maladar , Liao got stuck on defense, which means a loss from a Liao unit would swing the planet percentage towards Davions side, yet a Defensive win by Liao would only keep it the same. It's like shoveling sand against the tide.

Now about the ghost cap situation on Tantara , it was not totally a ghost cap, a group or two did respond after the screenshot was taken, but it doesn't matter because the Davions at that point would always be attacking gaining a point if they win, losing nothing if they lose.

StillRadioactive, on 31 December 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

I firmly believe that they're not happening during prime hours, and that opinion is unlikely to change short of seeing a straight-up results sheet.

Until then, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Only the screenshot he posted clearly shows the exact thing you want to disagree on.

[Scoops Kerensky]

Grynos, on 31 December 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Only the screenshot he posted clearly shows the exact thing you want to disagree on.

Yeah that's a pretty cut and dry screenshot of davion's numbers being so large relative to Liao that they're ghost capping the planet. The only thing you can call out against that is arguing that it wasn't taken at prime time.

[Gorgo7]

Socop, on 31 December 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Yeah that's a pretty cut and dry screenshot of davion's numbers being so large relative to Liao that they're ghost capping the planet. The only thing you can call out against that is arguing that it wasn't taken at prime time.

Look at the timer in the upper right. You can make out the time there.


2H 04M remaining until the ceasefire.

Edited by Gorgo7, 31 December 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Scoops Kerensky]

Gorgo7, on 31 December 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Look at the timer in the upper right. You can make out the time there.


2H 04M remaining until the ceasefire.

Yeah I assumed it was the case but that seals it. There's no denying that's photo evidence of numbers running Liao's border before any kind of skill or coordination.