123 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

A davion marik truce?

Sure, condition 1; return of the entire Zion province.



Any other conditions people want?

[IraqiWalker]

Kjudoon, on 28 December 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:

A davion marik truce?

Sure, condition 1; return of the entire Zion province.



Any other conditions people want?

Slow your roll playa. Let's get a cease fire first. Where we both promise to stop grinding each other down. AFTER the cease-fire is done, we can discuss alliances, return of territory... etc. Remember, right now, as much as we love playing with the Marik players, we have no guarantee that the FWL won't just turn on us as soon as we give the planets back (an EXTREMELY - I can't stress that enough- unlikely scenario, since there's a lot of trust between our two factions), however, we first need to prove to each other that we can commit to long-term cease-fires, and that there can be trust between us, beyond not shooting each other. After that, more permanent alliances, and reparations can be done.

What really sucks is that with the current system, factions that have gained territory, gain nothing by returning it, since there is no way for factions to trade favors, or things like that. It's definitely a great show of good will when they give territory back, but remember that it feels like they are the only ones paying reparations.

TL;DR: First: more permanent cease-fire, Second: Alliance, Third: Reparations.

EDIT: I find myself needing to re-iterate how much trust there is between our two houses now. Especially after the holiday cease fire, which showed that we can work REALLY well together.

Also, this is my impression, but I think the DAV/MRK border is the most civil one in the inner sphere. The others feel a lot more aggressive and hate filled. While our matches felt more sportsmanlike, and friendly. Despite the fact that they probably were the most bloody in CW.

You've never been through hell until you've been through Wazan.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 December 2014 - 03:45 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Reparation$??? Okay!

Lemme get my christmas list back out.

Lol

I have fought on Asuncion, Old Kentucky, Wazan and Suzano. I have been involved in the toughest campaign the inner sphere has had to offer from highs to lows.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

A Davion marik truce? That would be good for the IS and a real problem for the clans.

However the gamer in me wants to cry because some of the best games I have had on MWO were against you guys. However should we ally, I look forward to stomping the clans with you

[Karl Marlow]

A Marik/Davion alliance would put Liao in a very uncomfortable position. Liao doesn't have many choices and if Marik takes pressure off of Davion Liao will suffer for it. Not that I personally care about Liao space per se but they have been faithfully keeping to the Marik/Liao alliance.

What would the nature of a ceasefire be? Would we stop attacking Steiner to fight the clans? Will Davion stop attacking Liao and Kurita? If not Liao would be screwed and Kurita/Steier would be split which takes pressure off of the clans. A ceasefire is also not the same as an alliance which leaves Liao exposed as mentioned above. Are we only ceasefiring to protect FRR?

[IraqiWalker]

ThomasMarik, on 28 December 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

A Marik/Davion alliance would put Liao in a very uncomfortable position. Liao doesn't have many choices and if Marik takes pressure off of Davion Liao will suffer for it. Not that I personally care about Liao space per se but they have been faithfully keeping to the Marik/Liao alliance.

What would the nature of a ceasefire be? Would we stop attacking Steiner to fight the clans? Will Davion stop attacking Liao and Kurita? If not Liao would be screwed and Kurita/Steier would be split which takes pressure off of the clans. A ceasefire is also not the same as an alliance which leaves Liao exposed as mentioned above. Are we only ceasefiring to protect FRR?

A cease fire in it's most basic terms means that the parties involved don't shoot each other. So this could go multiple ways:

Scenario A: Best case scenario, it means that Davion, Steiner, Marik, and Liao, all cease hostilities against one another.

Scenario B: More plausible scenario, Marik retain their cease fire/peace treaty with Liao, Marik and Steiner remain hostile, but Davion no longer attacks Marik, Davion still attacks Liao

Scenario C: Plausible 2, Marik retain their cease fire/alliance with Liao, Marike and Steiner cease hostilities, Davion still attacks Liao.

Scenario D: Another plausible one, Marik ,Steiner, and Davion cease hostilities. Davion will still be attacking Liao.

So as you can see, it could be that the cease-fire goes no further than quieting the MRK/DAV border, but it does have the potential of going as far as freeing up 4 FOUR IS factions (Davion, Marik, Liao, Steiner) from infighting.

Notice also that the cease-fire means that the parties don't attack one another, but it doesn't say they are mandated to help one another (that's more of a good will thing, if it happens. So if Davion and Liao remain hostile to one another, after the DAV/MRK cease-fire goes through, that doesn't mean Marik is in league with Davion, and is hostile towards Liao.


Also, the cease-fire is more about krumping the clans, than it is about saving the FRR, not to mention that if we don't save the FRR, for the sake of keeping it in the fight at least, we are all next on the menu. If we could form actual unions, then I would put my all into forging a Star League ASAP. Sadly, the interface does not allow us to ally properly with other factions.


Right now the Marik/Davion front is taking some pressure off the Liao/Davion front, which as you mentioned above, would be gone if the two (MRK, and DAV) get a cease-fire. Allowing those assets to be relocated elsewhere. I personally would rather see those assets relocated to fighting the clans full-time. However, I don't know what will happen.

If we can get some Liao commanders in on this, that would be most helpful. Since you guys have an alliance with them, you can talk to them about it, and whether they would be okay with a cease-fire with Davion. At the same time, we need to get our commanders on the horn, and see if they would be okay with closing down 2 fronts (meaning our units will not be capturing any planets anymore, and won't be planting their flags there) {BTW: That silly reason could have been mitigated if CW allowed us to hold planets through successful defense.}. If we can get those two (Davion, and Liao) to agree to stop shooting each other in the face for a while, we can get a Davion/Marik/Liao cease-fire going, and I think we can get Steiner in on that as well. Since they are to us, as Liao is to you.

Ladies, and gentlemen, if we pull this through, we will have brokered a deal that frees up 4 Inner Sphere powers from almost all internal conflict (Davion, and Steiner share a border with Kurita, and Steiner shares one with the FRR too). This could lay down the foundations for an actual Star League. This deal might allow us to get the other two factions to join us, and who knows? We might be able to get some alliance talks going.


EDIT: added a 4th scenario

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 December 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

Out of interest why Do you mention getting Steiner in on it and not Kurita?

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Kentares? Depends though. A lot of players either don't care for the lore, or want to fight IS. Some night be uncomfortable 'blue doughnut'ing themselves.

[StillRadioactive]

I'd like to know why there's suddenly all this talk of a Davion/Marik ceasefire.

Liao has a higher than expected population right now.

Davion has a lower than expected population right now.

These two things together mean that we can't foot the bill for another Wazan.

Seems like Marik can't either, so they're looking elsewhere.

It's not a ceasefire, it's a cold war.

[Podex]

We can do it now, while we are strong, or do it while the clans are poking around Davion territory with every fair weather friend they can find. Your call.

This is the absolute best time to start combining FWL/FS units while there is neutral territory between us. Steiner has a clan border to fight, as does Kurita. What we have are the doctorate level butt kicking skills gained from Wazan and a great place to use them.

[Alex Reed]

IraqiWalker, on 28 December 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

What really sucks is that with the current system, factions that have gained territory, gain nothing by returning it, since there is no way for factions to trade favors, or things like that. It's definitely a great show of good will when they give territory back, but remember that it feels like they are the only ones paying reparations.

I agree with the intent of what you are saying. But, as the game is currently, it does not matter.

Gaining territory in CW Beta has not yielded tactical advantage because we still cannot direct our battles (we are at the mercy of AI algorithms) nor can we gain any material advantage through salvage, mineral rights, or C-bills.

So, with that being understood, why a talk of reparations when nothing is lost to anyone? All that happens is a map changes colors and some people get their names removed from planets much like getting bumped off the Donkey Kong leaderboard in the arcades of yesteryear.

Goodwill? Yes, it would be a great show of selflessness and goodwill, but there can be no (nor should there be any) talk of reparations until taking a planet means something. Or, at least until it is confirmed by Devs whether or not there will be a map reset at some time or another. A map reset would make all of this moot.

IraqiWalker, on 28 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

A cease fire in it's most basic terms means that the parties involved don't shoot each other. So this could go multiple ways:

Scenario A: Best case scenario, it means that Davion, Steiner, Marik, and Liao, all cease hostilities against one another.

Scenario B: More plausible scenario, Marik retain their cease fire/peace treaty with Liao, Marik and Steiner remain hostile, but Davion no longer attacks Marik, Davion still attacks Liao

Scenario C: Plausible 2, Marik retain their cease fire/alliance with Liao, Marike and Steiner cease hostilities, Davion still attacks Liao.

Scenario D: Another plausible one, Marik ,Steiner, and Davion cease hostilities. Davion will still be attacking Liao.

IraqiWalker, let me start by saying that I like that you think and put ideas on the table. Your post here made me giggle though since it seemed to be like this (tongue firmly in cheek here):

Scenario A: All parties get together and recreate the lore, put petty hostilities aside, and protect the Inner Sphere from the Children of Kerensky.

Scenario B: Everyone looks the other way and plays nice while Marik slaps our (Davion's) sister and we (Davion) beat up our kid brother (Liao).

Scenario C: All parties play nice and we (Davion) take our kid brother (Liao) outside to 'splain some things to him.

Scenario D: We have a dinner party and everyone is invited ... just please ignore us kicking kid brother (Liao) under the table.

(This comedic perspective offered of said hypothetical scenarios is not meant to glorify nor sanction the abuse of siblings, it is simply here to highlight the differences found in scenarios.)

Edited by Alex Reed, 28 December 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Alex, Iraqiwalker is a Cheesehead. Cheeseheads by nature are awesome, so... you know that.

[IraqiWalker]

ThomasMarik, on 28 December 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Out of interest why Do you mention getting Steiner in on it and not Kurita?

Because with Davion having an alliance with them, they are a lot more likely to do it. Also, once we get all 4 united, I don't think the other 2 would choose to remain independent/hostile for long. I would love to get Kurita and the FRR in there. However, I'm trying to get the apples I can reach first. Then I can worry about the ones a bit higher.

Arnold J Rimmer, on 28 December 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Kentares? Depends though. A lot of players either don't care for the lore, or want to fight IS. Some night be uncomfortable 'blue doughnut'ing themselves.

A lot of Davionite pilots would probably punch me in the face for this one, but I don't really care much for Kentares. That was over 2 centuries ago, and while I don't say we should forget it, I think we can forgive it by now. Also, in the face of a clan invasion, I think we can set petty differences aside.

Podex, on 28 December 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

We can do it now, while we are strong, or do it while the clans are poking around Davion territory with every fair weather friend they can find. Your call.

This is the absolute best time to start combining FWL/FS units while there is neutral territory between us. Steiner has a clan border to fight, as does Kurita. What we have are the doctorate level butt kicking skills gained from Wazan and a great place to use them.

100% with you there.

Alex Reed, on 28 December 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

I agree with the intent of what you are saying. But, as the game is currently, it does not matter.

Gaining territory in CW Beta has not yielded tactical advantage because we still cannot direct our battles (we are at the mercy of AI algorithms) nor can we gain any material advantage through salvage, mineral rights, or C-bills.

So, with that being understood, why a talk of reparations when nothing is lost to anyone? All that happens is a map changes colors and some people get their names removed from planets much like getting bumped off the Donkey Kong leaderboard in the arcades of yesteryear.

Goodwill? Yes, it would be a great show of selflessness and goodwill, but there can be no (nor should there be any) talk of reparations until taking a planet means something. Or, at least until it is confirmed by Devs whether or not there will be a map reset at some time or another. A map reset would make all of this moot.

People and their egos my friend. Those colors on the map show some kind of an achievement, and so people get possessive. Davion is reluctant to give territory, and the other houses are yelling "give us our planets back" I agree with you that it doesn't really matter much right now. Especially since moving those planets back and forth, won't change our borders, or number of attack avenues.

I personally would not want to give St. Ives to the Capellans, because I like the Compact, and I prefer them independent of Capellans. Other than that, I don't have much attachment to other planets, save for Wazan. If it was possible, I would find a way to declare it a joint hold, by both our factions.

Alex Reed, on 28 December 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

IraqiWalker, let me start by saying that I like that you think and put ideas on the table. Your post here made me giggle though since it seemed to be like this (tongue firmly in cheek here):

Scenario A: All parties get together and recreate the lore, put petty hostilities aside, and protect the Inner Sphere from the Children of Kerensky.

Scenario B: Everyone looks the other way and plays nice while Marik slaps our (Davion's) sister and we (Davion) beat up our kid brother (Liao).

Scenario C: All parties play nice and we (Davion) take our kid brother (Liao) outside to 'splain some things to him.

Scenario D: We have a dinner party and everyone is invited ... just please ignore us kicking kid brother (Liao) under the table.

(This comedic perspective offered of said hypothetical scenarios is not meant to glorify nor sanction the abuse of siblings, it is simply here to highlight the differences found in scenarios.)

Thank you, and your interpretation of them made me chuckle. Especially B and C.

Kjudoon, on 28 December 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Alex, Iraqiwalker is a Cheesehead. Cheeseheads by nature are awesome, so... you know that.

Thank you Kjudoon. I'm actually an honorary Cheesehead. XD. Lived in Beloit and Madison for almost 5 years. My favorite team is Greenbay Packers, and my favorite cheese is Cheddar. (Parmesan is a very close second)

EDIT: Sharp Cheddar to be specific.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 28 December 2014 - 10:10 PM.

[Dauphni]

Alex Reed, on 28 December 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

I agree with the intent of what you are saying. But, as the game is currently, it does not matter.

Gaining territory in CW Beta has not yielded tactical advantage because we still cannot direct our battles (we are at the mercy of AI algorithms) nor can we gain any material advantage through salvage, mineral rights, or C-bills.

So, with that being understood, why a talk of reparations when nothing is lost to anyone? All that happens is a map changes colors and some people get their names removed from planets much like getting bumped off the Donkey Kong leaderboard in the arcades of yesteryear.

Goodwill? Yes, it would be a great show of selflessness and goodwill, but there can be no (nor should there be any) talk of reparations until taking a planet means something. Or, at least until it is confirmed by Devs whether or not there will be a map reset at some time or another. A map reset would make all of this moot.

I don't think what you're saying is actually true. Sure, CW as it exists in the game itself is far from finished, but that does not mean anything we do now is meaningless. Remember, these also are the tentative first few weeks of politicking, and the repercussions of that are very real. In fragile and uncertain times like these, reputations are made or broken. And THAT will have effects that can be felt months from now, perhaps even longer, regardless of anything PGI decides to do.

Edited by Uite Dauphni, 29 December 2014 - 05:05 AM.

[War Steiner]

Just say NO to reparations. That is what cause the horrendous World War II on Terra about 1158 year ago. What the Dav's won in honest combat, they deserve (until we take it back by force). However, I think we can all recognize the need to unit under the Star League banner to eliminate the perverse spawn of Kerensky.

I am most positive that the Free Worlds League can make you a very good deal on slightly used and or refurbished mechs and equipment...

[Podex]

War Steiner, on 29 December 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Just say NO to reparations.

We'd really like to have Asuncion back. It is what sparked off Wazan after all.

[Kjudoon]

I dunno Podex. I hear the Colonel's looking for summer homes in the country somewhere deep in Steiner space

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 December 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Podex]

Kjudoon, on 29 December 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

I dunno Podex. I hear the Colonel's looking for summer homes in the country somewhere deep in Steiner space

Sounds posh. I'm in!

[Kjudoon]

They're so accomodating there. Give give give! That's all they do!

[IraqiWalker]

War Steiner, on 29 December 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Just say NO to reparations. That is what cause the horrendous World War II on Terra about 1158 year ago. What the Dav's won in honest combat, they deserve (until we take it back by force). However, I think we can all recognize the need to unit under the Star League banner to eliminate the perverse spawn of Kerensky.

I like that, but I think once we get alliances rolling some planets can be given/taken back through negotiation and peaceful talks.

War Steiner, on 29 December 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

I am most positive that the Free Worlds League can make you a very good deal on slightly used and or refurbished mechs and equipment...

I wouldn't mind an ON1-M. That thing is a beauty.