40 replies to this topic

[Eboli]

I have seen it happen a lot more lately as well.

To me it is an exploit and just reflects poorly on the personality of the player that uses it.

I am sure there is something in the TOS about using exploits to your advantage but this is sort of hard for PGI to monitor in this case. PGI needs to come up with a way to fix it.

Possibly adjust the time a JJ can kick in after first use but this will effect the feathering that players use to softly land when using JJs.

Cheers!
Eboli

[MechaBattler]

Could forcing the jump to last a second or two more fix the problem?

[Mycrus]

Keep on abusing it... remember it only took the better part of a year for them to realize that pee pee cees and jump sniping were broke...

run it constantly in the pug queue and brag in all chat about it... that should shift the forum meta....

[Aresye]

DaZur, on 24 December 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

The disingenuous logic of complaining over exploits that break the game but in the same breath insist one has to exploit it to remain competitive is just asinine.

It is asinine, but it does make sense.

One of the main reasons people run the current meta is because if you choose NOT to run the current meta, you're setting yourself up for a disadvantage if the other team IS running the meta.

The same goes with the logic regarding JJ feathering. Many top players absolutely despise it, but they'll do it, solely because they know the other side will likely do it.

Being competitive isn't just about teamwork and focus fire. It's also about understanding the current mechanics (including those that are broken), and using them to your advantage when you know they other team likely will.

Edited by Aresye, 24 December 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[YueFei]

Aresye, on 24 December 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

It is asinine, but it does make sense.

One of the main reasons people run the current meta is because if you choose NOT to run the current meta, you're setting yourself up for a disadvantage if the other team IS running the meta.

The same goes with the logic regarding JJ feathering. Many top players absolutely despise it, but they'll do it, solely because they know the other side will likely do it.

Being competitive isn't just about teamwork and focus fire. It's also about understanding the current mechanics (including those that are broken), and using them to your advantage when you know they other team likely will.

Yeah, it's very possible to consider something overpowered and be using it yourself, while calling for nerfs to it.

If anything, that should be applauded, for a player to test something themselves and, upon finding that it's too powerful, rather than being selfish and wanting to keep it unchanged, admits that it ought to be adjusted.

[DEMAX51]

Russ has said that they are aware of this exploit, but they just haven't had the time to address it. I believe he said it's on their list for the first half of 2015.

[Macster16]

I see it being abused most commonly in higher ELO matches by TBR pilots which really annoys me. Step out, pop off 50-alpha vomit and then quickly bunny-hop back into cover to shrug off any return fire. Lame and dare I say rather cheap.

Edited by Macster16, 25 December 2014 - 03:14 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

It is one thing that makes the timberwolf super strong. If you know how to use the jjs you can avoid a ton of dmg.

I dont know how often I looked a direwolf, king crab, double gauss or double ac20 jager in the face at medium to long ranges and only took dmg in a leg - or generally not where the other pilot intended to hit me - or only took superficial dmg because i simply tapped jjs briefly again and again.

They simply cannot hit you while I unloaded laser alpha after laser alpha after laser alpha. I actually see timberwolfs that dont use that at all. If they knew how much dmg they can mitigate theyd scratch their heads and frown.

A dakkawhale at 500 meters machinegunning you? Np. you strafe a few meters, jjwalk a few times, unload 2 - 3 alphas and get barely hit. You repeat that 5 times and the whale is dead. Even lasers and gauss have trouble to truely deliever the dmg where they want it.

You can basically just jjwalk out of the danger zone. Once you get used to this you will have an incredible advantage over mechs than have no jjs or dont know how to use them. The advantage is huge. More than huge.

I have won many, many, many 1 on 1s like that. And additional hitreg problems that are a result of this jjwalking will add to your advantage. To a point where certain mechs wont stand a chance in many scenarios. A dakka whale - or other dakka mechs - are all but defensless at certain distances that are well in their acs ranges. They simply stream bullets over your head or under your feet. Barely hitting you.

If you play an ac heavy mech you should consider that you might face a timberwolf, or other sky....er jj-walkers, and then you will most certainly die. Again and over again. Those builds have nothing to counter this ability. Just nothing. Unless you get up real close or your side is winning anyway or it is a 2 vs 1 scenarior.

But in a staredown at lower medium to moderate/long distances? A death sentence.

I have jjwalked out of brutal onslaughts. 3 + heavy or assaults mechs hammering me for like 10 seconds and i got maybe one red component. Most of the times not even losing any components or sometimes taking a few percent dmg.

Is it completly and over the top unfair? Haha yeah of course. Do I luv the timberwolf? Oh yeah. But hell it is unfair.

I always wondered why there arent dozens and dozens of threads demanding this to be changed. What you can do with the timberwolf is brutal. On top of that it is sturdy as hell, runs almost as fast as mediums, has insane firepower. Since everybody can get a timberwolf its fair game for everybody i guess. But this kind of major advantage just seems a little off. Wheras little is an understatement.

It is one of the most dangerous mechs ever. Pre and post quirks.

[Darian DelFord]

Its funny when folks get called out on this in chat, "Nah man its allowed", "Nope not an exploit" so on and so forth, exploit truly I have no idea but it is a broken game mechanic. But most players in the PUG queue do point it out when its used.

[Macster16]

I will confess however to using this tactic at times instinctively. Round a corner only to find meta-whale staring me in the face? No worries - start slamming that spacebar while squirelling back around the corner and abracadabra, all that damage that should have melted the face off even the biggest of mechs has magically been filtered and transferred into minor leg damage....

Edited by Macster16, 25 December 2014 - 04:42 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

Macster16, on 25 December 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

I will confess however to using this tactic at times instinctively. Round a corner only to find meta-whale staring me in the face? No worries - start slamming that spacebar while squirelling back around the corner and abracadabra, all that damage that should have melted the face off even the biggest of mechs has magically been filtered and transferred into minor leg damage....

Hahaha....I know. Its kinda ridiculous. Dont get me wrong, I abuse this all the time as it is in the game right now and I merely use the jjs. But it is super unfair.

Big assaults with dakkapower make me smile when they boldly try to stare me down. Youre like an oily pebble, slipping out of their iron fist no matter how hard they squeeze.

I can understand that ppl call it out and feel at a disadvantage. But they shouldnt do that ingame. Do it here. As long as this mechanic exists ppl will use it. Its a ton of fun also. A guilty pleasure. You feel so pro when doing it dwl. Shame on me.

In my defence: I havent used the timberwolf much lately as I am totally in luv with the tdr 9s. We have an erotic affair, the 9s and me, its so intense. She luvs me so much. Unbelievable. I might make her my permanent second gf.

[Macster16]

Well in my case, being a FPS player, I do it out of habit rather than a concious effort to abuse a broken mechanic. Being a TF2 player who regularly plays scout, it's common practice to start tapping spacebar to try double-jump around when danger presents itself to avoid being ground-shot by a soldier or throw a heavy or sniper's aim off or whatever. Was also common to do so in UT and other arena FPS games which I played regularly back in the day. It's become such a habit for me, I often at times start fruitlessly tapping spacebar even in a mech without JJs when I'm under fire and I'm furiously trying to run for safety . Just that, when I happen to be running my TBR and I start doing it, I guess I'm unintentionally taking advantage of a broken mechanic.

[LowSubmarino]

Macster16, on 25 December 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Well in my case, being a FPS player, I do it out of habit rather than a concious effort to abuse a broken mechanic. Being a TF2 player who regularly plays scout, it's common practice to start tapping spacebar to try double-jump around when danger presents itself to avoid being ground-shot by a soldier or throw a heavy or sniper's aim off or whatever. Was also common to do so in UT and other arena FPS games which I played regularly back in the day. It's become such a habit for me, I often at times start fruitlessly tapping spacebar even in a mech without JJs when I'm under fire and I'm furiously trying to run for safety . Just that, when I happen to be running my TBR and I start doing it, I guess I'm unintentionally taking advantage of a broken mechanic.

Ah man, I played ravenshield 8 years competitively. The best and most fun realistic team shooter that ever existed but only had a tiny fanbase. One straight hit and you were dead. There was no life or healing like in cod or crazy jumping like in cs. You couldnt jump at all hehe. And when you died you had to wait till the game was over. It was a harsh, unforgiving, tactical and awesome game.

I loved that game. It was the most fun mp shooter ever. No other mp shooter ever came close to the fun I had with that game.

But yeah. In other shooters you jump wildly automatically. So it feels natural in the timberwolf.

Edited by oneda, 25 December 2014 - 05:21 AM.

[DaZur]

Aresye, on 24 December 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

One of the main reasons people run the current meta is because if you choose NOT to run the current meta, you're setting yourself up for a disadvantage if the other team IS running the meta.

Being competitive isn't just about teamwork and focus fire. It's also about understanding the current mechanics (including those that are broken), and using them to your advantage when you know they other team likely will.

Or...

One could choose to rise above the common denominator and make a concerted effort to excel without recognizing the easily available crutch.

To preface, I am in no way inferring I'm superior because of the logic I imply... But I personally avoid following the meta with intentional conviction. Do I have to work twice as hard to achieve similar results as the meta followers?

Absolutely...

That said I take great pride in carrying a 1.22 KDR with my active non-meta mechs. To me it's a badge of achievement and accomplishment.

All that said, I completely understand why players follow the competitive meta... Folks want to win and folks want to be equally competitive as the players they face.

I just struggle with the rational because to me it's the easy way out... but I don't begrudge anyone for doing it.

Edited by DaZur, 25 December 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Ursh]

This explains a lot about some matches I've had where I've unloaded on some guy feathering his jumpjets and ended the match with extremely low damage.

There was a tool from Australia, forget his name (started with a V), but him and his clan were at or near the top of the organized team tournament leagues. He bragged quite openly about using what he called jump desync, where jumping while being shot at, combined with his Australian ping, made it much more likely for rounds to register as misses.

[Catra Lanis]

Ursh, on 25 December 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

This explains a lot about some matches I've had where I've unloaded on some guy feathering his jumpjets and ended the match with extremely low damage.

There was a tool from Australia, forget his name (started with a V), but him and his clan were at or near the top of the organized team tournament leagues. He bragged quite openly about using what he called jump desync, where jumping while being shot at, combined with his Australian ping, made it much more likely for rounds to register as misses.

Don't know for sure obviously but I've been missing a lot lately PPC and even ballistics have been passing right through even at short range when people were facing me head on. It might be my marksmanship but I'm in the 70 percentile with PPC and Gauss so I don't think so.

I decided to keep an eye out after reading this thread and sure enough. A lot of mechs were kind of squatting every other step. This was in CW, I don't see it as often in regular matches. No hard data though.

[Darian DelFord]

This is really becoming an epidemic, all I see now are lights flipping tapping their JJ's during combat and hitting themis damn near impossible. Its even funnier when the timberwolves do it.

[EDLOVER]

please fix this. i am in orion 2srm6a ac20. timber wolf gets alpha'd 3 times ct by me. he is flutter jumping. his armor is YELLOW. it is broken.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Look, for every 100 people QQing something is broke 99.9999999% of the time its skll or "I should get credit for misses".

You shoot someone with JJ and you think you have the magical skills to immediately compensate and adjust aim... NO EFFING WAY! NO ONE IS THAT FAST!
"OMG I shot in one spot, someone with JJ jumped and moved and I missed they are exploiting! OMFG QQQQQ!"


GET BENT!!!


... and thats the issue with HSR, people get credit for hits that should be misses!

ONLY MWO adjusts coding for aim to make misses hits! THATS WHY THIS GAME IS NOT ON TOP! Most real gamers know this system caters to misses, =ing hits, more then any other FPS on the market! NO ONE PLAYS FPS FOR DIE ROLLS, this is not a rpg!!!!!!!

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 06 January 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

It's not so much an issue with HSR or broken hitboxes as much as it's jerky animation of it suddenly skipping up in the air like it teleported there. The Victors do it as well, only worse as they suddenly lurch forward at the waist when doing it.

If one starts doing it, I wait til he's at the apex before firing and everything lands where I want it to. Or if you really want to get their goat, the Timberwolf leaves its extra long legs, extra straight and trailing behind it when it does that. Most of their builds only have 54 armor on a leg. And that bunny hopping makes that leg twice as easy to hit.