18 replies to this topic

[Azzura]

I am asking cause some players are really into MWO (Mech Universe in general). I on the other hand am still learning things day by day.

The initial impression I got was with these 1.4 DHS along with the heat adjustments to some lasers (mainly the larger variants?) are going to be ..for all intense and purposes ----- a brutal blow to piloting the Atlas that use larger lasers.

With DHS currently as they are....I generally run the Atlas with a gauss , 2 LL, 2 streaks and a 300 standard engine (heat is manageable). I prefer not to (but do on occasion) load up on LRM's as they seem/feel kinda unfair.

When I heard about DHS coming out someday.....I was rather excited about them ( the Dev's basically said - wait till DHS come out!). I though...freaking awesome! Now I can even manage the heat in this Atlas even better.

Then they came out, discover they are pretty much half busted. But alas ...I hear they are going to fix them (Awesome!). But the fix (if I understand correctly) is worse than the broken version I currently use in my Atlas =(
Do these 1.4 DHS hurt the Atlas Laser builds? Maybe it isn't as bad as I think it will be?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

The simple,sweet, short answer is -- don't use them. You're going to instead want to take Endo+Single heat sinks, as larger weapons are going to take up more space than "1.4" sinks could ever possibly warrant on your mech. Also, you'll only be able to put so many "1.4" sinks on your atlas, (I think you can put a max 4 on your 100% empty side torsos, and 3 per arm).24(250+rated engine)x1.4 = 33.6 heat per 10, with literally NO room for anything, at all.

On an Atlas laser boat, you can alternatively easily fit 30+ single heat sinks and still have room for lasers and equipment. so ~30 heat per ten with double and no room for ****, or up to 40 heat per ten with singles and room potentially for bigger weapons, ecm, ams, etc.

Edited by mwhighlander, 05 November 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[lsp]

No effective in my opinion. If dhs are ineffective, then you'll just go back the sh builds you where already running.

[Sunoiki]

The lasers that will run hotter post patch will be all 3 pulse lasers and small lasers. Large and medium lasers will remain as they are.

As for DHS, all mechs with a 250 engine or higher and 7 or more DHS will see decreased heat efficiency. So while your lasers will be the same, your mech will likely be slightly warmer than it is now (hard to be more specific without your DHS number).

[Azzura]

****** =/

I spent a few cbills on DHS as they were.

For some reason I I had it in my head, that DHS...were....well double as good as the single.

Lol I outfitted 3 Atlas with these Tech 2 (I've read people say).

Ughhh it is as I feared. I was actually running Large Pulse. I found it easier to use them playing with a 250-300ms ping (just seemed easier to maintain or hit other with them).

Edited by Azzura, 05 November 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[Viper69]

Well I want my fuggin 1.5 mil back for the DHS I put on my atlas then.

[Prophet of Entropy]

cause they like super hot laser mechs but are fine with lrm and gauss.

[Deedsie]

I don't call 1.4 heat sinks a fix.

[Lightfoot]

DHS 1.4 makes them useless for Energy based configs, well very marginal and you can actually get more cooling from singles if you carry a bit more weight, which the Atlas can. For mixed loadouts DHS will be a good bet if less than 15 are used.

I used to pilot an Awesome, but it uses mostly energy and I was believing a heatsink fix and DHS would make large energy loadouts work, but now I see there is no support for that ever happening in MWO so I switched to a Centurion and whoa! went from dying all the time to average 3 kills per drop. I even got legged by two other mechs, an Awesome that kept shutting down and another Centurion and I defeated both of them. Yep, the legs don't shoot back. Best of all the Centurion uses no DHS and never overheats.

[Azzura]

Perhaps I misunderstood the idea or the premiss of these Atlas. I figured it was brawler of a Mech (the tanker), that other lighter or med Mechs would fear to engage in head to head fight...one on one situation. A Mech that would have to be finessed in the way it was killed/taken down. Or taken out with a coordinated group of lights or meds..or left for the other Atlas to deal with.

I was thinking these DHS would be the savior of the Atlas (give it some true fearful damage output)...but this is not to become so.

Perhaps I had/have no idea what the Atlas was or is meant to do.

But it is starting to feel as though it is being regulated to that of a slow large mobile LRM pad. And other mechs just laugh at the thing lol.

[Amaris the Usurper]

I frequently run an Atlas with a Gauss rifle, two PPCs, two medium lasers, and 19 DHS. The way DHS work now, the ones that come with the engine count as singles, but all others (including those dropped into the engine slots) count as doubles. So, for me, the DHS work the same as 10+2*9 = 28 SHS. After the patch, each of the 19 DHS will function like 1.4 SHS, and I will have the equivalent of 1.4*19 = 26.6 SHS. That's a 5% loss.

This should not result in my having to make changes to either the fit or my play style (especially since I don't yet have the elite unlocks).

In short, while you didn't state how many heat sinks you have equipped, I expect you will see something similar.

On the other hand, you didn't mention any weapons beyond the two large lasers and two Streak launchers. Are you packing a third weapon (Gauss, AC/20, etc.)? If not, then you are probably using around 23 DHS to (almost) instantaneously dissipate your weapons heat. In this case, you would be going from 36 to 32.2 effective SHS, or about an 11% loss. This is a bit more significant, but still not a deal breaker. In any case, an Atlas armed (essentially) with just two large lasers is an extremely poor build, so the 11% loss would not be relevant for most.

[Hovertank]

There will be no 'brutal blows' to Atlas builds running DHS... There are no adjustments to the LL either.

I doubt I will even notice a difference.

[Azzura]

I do run Gauss on all the Atlas I have.

I'd like to run maybe PPC's or ERPPC's...but wow they seem to really run hot! If you also consider the damage the put out vs the heat.

What would have been the benefit of running DHS if they had been 2.0... in the Atlas? What would be difference of running 1.4 vs 2.0's? For our Atlas...

[PyroDante]

If you use more then 8 DHSs now, you will lose heat efficiency after the patch.

[Dunwich Child]

It really depends on your build. On my Founders Atlas, switching to DHS as they stand now already involves a loss of 25% of my heat sinking ability so the change has no effect on me.

[Broceratops]

Amaris the Usurper, on 05 November 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

I frequently run an Atlas with a Gauss rifle, two PPCs, two medium lasers, and 19 DHS. The way DHS work now, the ones that come with the engine count as singles, but all others (including those dropped into the engine slots) count as doubles. So, for me, the DHS work the same as 10+2*9 = 28 SHS. After the patch, each of the 19 DHS will function like 1.4 SHS, and I will have the equivalent of 1.4*19 = 26.6 SHS. That's a 5% loss.

This should not result in my having to make changes to either the fit or my play style (especially since I don't yet have the elite unlocks).

In short, while you didn't state how many heat sinks you have equipped, I expect you will see something similar.

On the other hand, you didn't mention any weapons beyond the two large lasers and two Streak launchers. Are you packing a third weapon (Gauss, AC/20, etc.)? If not, then you are probably using around 23 DHS to (almost) instantaneously dissipate your weapons heat. In this case, you would be going from 36 to 32.2 effective SHS, or about an 11% loss. This is a bit more significant, but still not a deal breaker. In any case, an Atlas armed (essentially) with just two large lasers is an extremely poor build, so the 11% loss would not be relevant for most.

This is a good explanation. I don't expect any current builds to be much changed. DHS just has the effect of normalizing heat....if you run with relatively few then its an upgrade, if you run with a lot, then its a downgrade.

The complaints are centered around builds that people wanted to try but with a 30% reduction in their anticipated heat dissipation they figure won't be an option...although I yet have seen any of these theoretical builds that would be any good in the current state of the game. They're mostly PPC builds ... and since I consider PPCs to be in the machine gun tier of weapons I don't think the ability to fire them more often will be enough to compensate for their negative of not being able to hit anything properly.

Well there are also people complaining because hey, heat is heat, but a 2.0 multiplier would effectively make every build I currently use very close to heat neutral, which would make them all quite OP.

Edited by Broceratops, 05 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Amaris the Usurper]

mwhighlander, on 05 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

The simple,sweet, short answer is -- don't use them. You're going to instead want to take Endo+Single heat sinks, as larger weapons are going to take up more space than "1.4" sinks could ever possibly warrant on your mech. Also, you'll only be able to put so many "1.4" sinks on your atlas, (I think you can put a max 4 on your 100% empty side torsos, and 3 per arm).24(250+rated engine)x1.4 = 33.6 heat per 10, with literally NO room for anything, at all.

On an Atlas laser boat, you can alternatively easily fit 30+ single heat sinks and still have room for lasers and equipment. so ~30 heat per ten with double and no room for ****, or up to 40 heat per ten with singles and room potentially for bigger weapons, ecm, ams, etc.

You're talking about laser boats, and I expect that you're right. But I'll apply the reasoning to my Atlas build mentioned in the previous post, in order to show that DHS are still good for something on assault mechs.

Right now, I am carrying 9 tons and 21 slots worth of heat sinks for the equivalent (post-patch) of 26.6 SHS. (21 slots because 2 of the 9 additional DHS are in the engine.) If I were to use endo steel with SHS, I would gain 5 tons for heat sinks, resulting in 24 SHS total. The endo steel and heat sinks combined would take up 26 slots Assuming that 4 were in the legs, I would gain 4 SHS when standing in water (if that is indeed how it works), for a total of 28 effective SHS in that situation only. To me, 26.6 SHS all of the time is preferable to 24 SHS most of the time and 28 in special situations.

[Kurayami]

think for a second about most annoying mechs ingame - jenners. currently they have engine heatsinks only (most popular builds have like 1-2 external) and will overheat on caustic\forced to pace down small laser rampage. now give them "true" dhs in engine... enjoy being ***** by heat neutral spl\ml doom fairy. lets look on mpl\ml awesome - currently it can kill you with 2 alphas but first one will give most builds whooping 60% heat (no unlocks) now give em dhs... suddenly reworked model use bigger engine and more heat efficient making 2 alphas in a row possible and featuring enough speed and mobility to run for cover after that. streakcat - never overheat again. lrm boat - never overheat again even while using both missiles and lasers at the same time etc etc etc. see a big picture please - your fancy builds are not the only builds possible.

Edited by Kurayami, 05 November 2012 - 10:01 PM.

[Broceratops]

Kurayami, on 05 November 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

think for a second about most annoying mechs ingame - jenners. currently they have engine heatsinks only (most popular builds have like 1-2 external) and will overheat on caustic\forced to pace down small laser rampage. now give them "true" dhs in engine... enjoy being ***** by heat neutral spl\ml doom fairy. lets look on mpl\ml awesome - currently it can kill you with 2 alphas but first one will give most builds whooping 60% heat (no unlocks) now give em dhs... suddenly reworked model use bigger engine and more heat efficient making 2 alphas in a row possible and featuring enough speed and mobility to run for cover after that. streakcat - never overheat again. lrm boat - never overheat again even while using both missiles and lasers at the same time etc etc etc. see a big picture please - your fancy builds are not the only builds possible.

exactly. the fancy builds that people might do are not the problem. someone wants to put 4 ER PPCs on something? fine go ahead. the problem is the min/max builds of today, given 10 free heat sinks, will go absolutely crazy. they're already all heat manageable now, but if they get that much closer to heat neutral, they'll be ridiculous because heat won't even be a factor.