57 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

John80sk, on 24 December 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

... vs Firestarter? Firestarter, can't think of a clan light I'd take over a Firestarter.

Honestly several Firestarter variants are better than pretty much all other IS lights, IS mediums under 50 tons and probably better than all clan mechs under 50 tons as well.

[Kain Demos]

TheSilkenPimp, on 24 December 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Ugh I wish for the MW4 days when mechs/weapons were put into the game and not changed. People complain way too much in MWO. Suck it up, adapt to challenges, and move on. I like the people here I just wish that they could grow up and stop grumbling.

Those days are long gone. Here we are over a decade later where players of most games take to forums to cry to the developers about why they want changes made to compensate for their own shortcomings and unwillingness to learn.

[HARDKOR]

I feel it's pretty balanced now that we have thunderbolts. Without them, IS is pretty hosed for range, but with them, it's a fair fight.

As for MW4... much better game overall but I don't miss the useless medium lasers

[KuroNyra]

HARDKOR, on 24 December 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

I feel it's pretty balanced now that we have thunderbolts. Without them, IS is pretty hosed for range, but with them, it's a fair fight.

As for MW4... much better game overall but I don't miss the useless medium lasers

Double Clan LB-X 20 on the Hunchback IIC.... Nomnomnom!

[LordKnightFandragon]

Violent Nick, on 24 December 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

If we go purely on the question at hand I had to say yeah the best clan mechs slightly outperform the best IS mechs, but having said that the top 2 tiers of IS (say split them into tiers of 3 mechs per tier) would have to outperform the top 2 clan tiers so all in all pretty even.. I think if IS pilots shoot off Clan arms more, they'll be fine. Everyone is still adapting to CW beta.

One of the things I think that is fantastic right now is that it is harder for me to kill a centurion in my huginn than it is to kill a direwolf and that when I'm in my IS light, I'm much more worries about a good ice ferret pilot than the same guy in a timberwolf.

thats kinda bad....must say something about the survivability in a DW....I rarely see them do much but die.

[KuroNyra]

LordKnightFandragon, on 24 December 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

thats kinda bad....must say something about the survivability in a DW....I rarely see them do much but die.

Centurions are OP?

[Metus regem]

Dire Wolves are underpowered.... The King Crab is kind of broken... Twice the twist range, at twice the speed of the Dire Wolf with the same engine size....

Edit:

Do not take the above remark from me, as me complaining that the KGC is OP, rather I think the DWF should be looked at, and be given the same range of motion as the KGC. I like fighting KGC's since they force me to adapt to a new threat.

Edited by Metus regem, 24 December 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Astarte]

I have an account for both factions, and I believe it is pretty balanced.
The quirk system Seriously makes up for any Clan Superiority

[Kristen Redmond]

other account for proof

[El Bandito]

KuroNyra, on 24 December 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

It should be expected from the Timber Wolf to have them resilient, they are supposed to be resistant.
But have you spoke about there tremendous heat they create for there loadout?
Theses things are jack-of-all trade, but are far from being invincible. You can be glad they are don't run cooler than IS mech like they are supposed to do in the Lore.

Same goes for all the Others Clans mech.

The Timber Wolf was supposed to be fast, powerful and resilient. (In all others MW games, theses things were able to meet face to face an Atlas.)
The problem is to balance it while retaining what make a Timber Wolf... A Timber Wolf.

Basicly, how could we reduce his "OPness" without killing what make a Mad Cat. That mech no matter what happen should be feared on the battlefield. Like an Atlas is or a Dire Wolf is.

The Stormcrow is a sort-of Mad Cat for the Mediums.
Changing the Heat and make him even more hotter would basicly kill that mech. That thing is like the summoner swimming in hot lava.
Remove his firepower, same thing. It would be to take away the LRMS from a Catapult C1 or the Huch of a Hunchback G.
Speed? Clans mech were suppose to be fast f*ckers and should keep that.

Probably reduce the resistance, that could be a start. But need to be careful on that ground. If they reduce it too much, there won't be a point for that mech.

It need to keep what is make it good.
I don't want to see one of the most Iconic mech reduce to pile of garbage thanks to the cry of kids not able to deal with it, like it has been the case in others games for others iconic stuff.

Ah, the lame argument of "It should be better than the rest because it is iconic". Well, that is not what happens in a multiplayer only game, sunshine. Otherwise, we would have Atlases and Catapults stomping everyone in the IS side--but they aint.

Balance comes first, over everything else.

[Sethliopod]

Kain Thul, on 24 December 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

First, a Stormcrow can only mount 5 launchers total. ...<snip>... If you're good enough to dominate with SRMs then I would say that is skill, not "easy mode".

I run 3xSRM6 and 2xSSRM6 (another item the IS lacks) both with cool-down mods. Perhaps there's more skill to it than I give credit, but I've got to say the damage output and numbers typically double over anything I can get from an IS, and it requires so much less finesse.

edit: But you know, in my Timberwolf, I get far better scores with LBX 5's (used to be 10s) than I do with other weapons, so maybe it is just me and my style. I seem to do very well with shotgun-like, messy, close-in mechs, with crazy hit boxes.

Edited by Sethliopod, 24 December 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Honestly I'm hoping that now that the IS has the strongest, most "easy mode" 'mechs in the game we can get some of our nerfs rolled back.

First thing I'd like to see is full damage for the C-ERPPC.

[NovaFury]

The clans probably have a slight advantage at the top tiers, although I'm not sure how much of that is the fault of numbers anymore. When you come down to it, there's something magical about the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow hitboxes.

In the assault class, clans have the Dire Wolf and thus the undisputed master of carrying tonsofguns. I'm not convinced they still have undeniable superiority anymore though, as the King Crab can give the Dire a run for its money. No clan weapons, but 120 degrees of twist means she's insanely maneuverable in a way the DWF just isn't. Meanwhile Stalkers are just 2durable and some have excellent quirks, in a fashion that would put the Warhawk to shame if it wasn't so fast. We don't talk about Gargoyles.

The Timber Wolf undeniably wins the heavy class, with the Hellbringer not far behind. No surprise here, the TBR is the only decent hitboxed 75 ton mech in the game right now, has jumpjets to boot, and excellent payload flexibility. HBR's the only ECM heavy in the game with amazing hardpoint inflation. Thunderbolts have silly good quirks, but still fall just behind, no surprises there, they're ancient 65 tonners. IS loses here mainly because the Orion is a steaming pile and there are several options it just can't duplicate or simply doesn't get in this weight class despite having more mechs.

The Stormcrow is the crystallized essence of medium mech, with an excellent blend of speed, geometry and firepower, which is a fairly demanding set of requirements and a reason the class has few stand-outs. Only disadvantage is that it can't jump, which might mean something if hoverjets allowed you to move vertically. The Shadowhawk is still decent, along with the quirked Griffin and Wolverine, but IS XL engines really hurt the survivability of this class, as the models are oversized and under-armored for their ease of being struck.

IS wins lights, the Firestarter will eat your mother and can do so in more ways than there are even Clan chassis in this weight. I'm reasonably confident in my FS9 that barring significant damage, I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning a duel with any other mech in the entire game. It really isn't even a contest, because the speed requirements for this class to perform its function adequately is not achievable by clan light mechs. IS heavies may lack ECM and 75 ton options, but Clan lights lack options to even exist at all. It's a good thing they don't die when they lose their sides, because it allows them to pretend to be ersatz medium mechs.

They win in two areas, tie in one and lose hard in the last, IMO.

Edited by NovaFury, 24 December 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Burktross]

My dyslexia got the best of me and I accidentally picked clan mechs strongly outperformed the best IS mechs.

I only meant to put slightly.

[Sethliopod]

KuroNyra, on 24 December 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Comparable mech are XL only?
I hope you are joking or I have misunderstood.
Thunderbolt don't need XL in order to kick Timber Wolves butt, I don't need an XL in mine send back Mad Cat to the scrapyard.

Both XL and STD mech are comparable.

You stated: "To lost a Side Torso in a Clan mech generally mean you have lost half your firepower"

I took your comment to suggest that IS don't generally suffer similar debilitating effects when they lose a side torso, and decided I would go to the extreme to suggest that, 'yes they often suffer far worse'. There are plenty of new Thunderbolt pilots who would say this is not a Clan-exclusive drawback.
I will give you that the zombie build does give IS an advantage on some mechs. But I would say their XL engines give them far more useful advantages.

edit: KuroKyra, I appreciate your feedback, and Happy Holidays, all!!!!

Edited by Sethliopod, 24 December 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[KuroNyra]

El Bandito, on 24 December 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Ah, the lame argument of "It should be better than the rest because it is iconic". Well, that is not what happens in a multiplayer only game, sunshine. Otherwise, we would have Atlases and Catapults stomping everyone in the IS side--but they aint.

Balance comes first, over everything else.

Ho for f*ck sake learn to f*cking read.

I did not say they should be BETTER here, but they should KEEP what they are know for!
The Catapult in the Lore was an effective LRM boat. IT IS INGAME.
The Atlas in the Lore was a monster of resistance with some nice weaponry. IT IS INGAME.

The same way, the Timber Wolf in the Lore was a versatile mech. IT IS AND SHOULD BE. But it also should balance in order to be efficient while not overwhelming.
The same way, the Dire Wolf in the Lore was a monster of resistance with extremely good weapons. IT IS AND SHOULD BE. But that mech also suffer from great heat and poor manoeuvabrility. (An Atlas looks like an Athlete in comparaison.)


The Clans Mech need to keep there spirit and what make them special in comparaison to Inner Sphere mech, BUT they should also be balanced for the twos who are better than the average.
BUT! The problem is the Clans mechs aren't balanced between eachother and we need to FIX THAT FIRST BEFORE THINKING IS VS CLANS!
LEARN TO READ FOR THE NEXT TIME!

Edited by KuroNyra, 24 December 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Sethliopod]

Now, if weight really mattered for anything in-game, and we took the best of each class, I would say the factions are FAR closer matched. As it is, the one format that actually applies a weight restriction, allows tons (heh) of flexiblity, and so people aren't really forced to face class deficiencies.

[KuroNyra]

Sethliopod, on 24 December 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

You stated: "To lost a Side Torso in a Clan mech generally mean you have lost half your firepower"

I took your comment to suggest that IS don't generally suffer similar debilitating effects when they lose a side torso, and decided I would go to the extreme to suggest that, 'yes they often suffer far worse'. There are plenty of new Thunderbolt pilots who would say this is not a Clan-exclusive drawback.
I will give you that the zombie build does give IS an advantage on some mechs. But I would say their XL engines give them far more useful advantages.

edit: KuroKyra, I appreciate your feedback, and Happy Holidays, all!!!!

Of course it is not a Clans mech drawback only. But the Haters tend to ignore that drawback and make it look line only the IS mech have it.

Sethliopod, on 24 December 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Now, if weight really mattered for anything in-game, and we took the best of each class, I would say the factions are FAR closer matched. As it is, the one format that actually applies a weight restriction, allows tons (heh) of flexiblity, and so people aren't really forced to face class deficiencies.

They are closed matched. A Timber Wolf is not the God the Battlefied, nor is the StormCrow or the Dire Wolf. But again, haters tend to have problem when facing something else than a Kintaro on the battlefield.