20 replies to this topic

[Tarys]

Since it is Christmas and i have time to think over funny stuff ... right now we Need 3 variants of a mech to get it "leveled up to max". Because of that a lot (?) of mechs Fitting into the current timeline wont make it into the game because they dont have the needed 3 variants. And because a lot of People (at least regarding some postings about it) would like to get their Hands on an Urbanmech. I only know that one from Mechcommander 2 where it was ... well ... it did some damage, went down and only made sense to pick up if you had enough Money at the end of a Mission. I guess in MWO it wouldnt be any better ... since it is basicly an assault mech in the Body of a light mech and wouldnt be any good in "normal" matches.

So here is my idea about that:
1) Implement a new gamemode "Battle Royal" where you are only able to use the Urban Mech with its Trademark loadout (AC20). As well we would get a new Arena map which favours brawling and could be an artifical maze build by the Solaris guys. There would be no Teams and every step could be your last one. So i would Limit it to 8 Players.

2) To avoid the Problem with unlocking anything above the Basic skills i would Change the current xp System into something like: if you only have 1 variant of a mech you can unlock Basics just like now. But for everything above that you Need 3x or 2x the xp it would take with having 3 variants with full Basics. So f.e. you have just one mech you Need thrice the norma xp to get one elite-skill. If you have 2 mechs with Basics you Need double xp. When having 3 mechs nothing changes.

Now you could say that System would be the death of any variant currently regarded as "useless" (yes i am looking at some Ravens) and i have to admit you would be right. So on top of the Change of the xp System i would also include the achievment System that was mentioned a Long time ago. For having all cbill-variants of a mech you can unlock things like:
- every Basic skills unlocked -> gain more xp (10% for the Pilot skills and 25% gxp) on all variants of this mech
- every Elite skills unlocked -> gain 10% more cbills (stacks with other Bonus) when using one of those mechs
- every Master skills unlocked -> get a Special camou (or maybe even better a decal; that should be easier to do and is a Feature that we will get in the near future); get a holo-Version of the Cockpit mech statue (which is facing one another with the normal Standing item) or even gives you the ability to Change the Color of your laserbeam

Of course those things should only work when you have all the needed mechs in your mechbay. Not just for buying, unlocking and selling them. We Players would get more benefit from gathering the mechs and PGI probably gets more Money out of it (mechbays and Colors, maye other things as well).


Thanks for reading this far and sorry if it sounds confusing ... english aint my Primary language and i had 0 interest in looking over my autocorrection. As well while typing this post the Forum behaves like i am having extrem lag or the batteries of my Keyboard are Close to going out -.-

[Wintersdark]

Tarys, on 25 December 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Since it is Christmas and i have time to think over funny stuff ... right now we Need 3 variants of a mech to get it "leveled up to max". Because of that a lot (?) of mechs Fitting into the current timeline wont make it into the game because they dont have the needed 3 variants. And because a lot of People (at least regarding some postings about it) would like to get their Hands on an Urbanmech. I only know that one from Mechcommander 2 where it was ... well ... it did some damage, went down and only made sense to pick up if you had enough Money at the end of a Mission. I guess in MWO it wouldnt be any better ... since it is basicly an assault mech in the Body of a light mech and wouldnt be any good in "normal" matches.

Mechs without 3 variants still make it into the game. PGI just makes their own alternate variants. The Enforcer is an example of that - it only has two timeline appropriate variants, but it's coming with three.

[Dirgez]

If by "Battle Royal" and "Arena," you mean Solaris VII... Then yes, one day we will have it... Don't expect anytime soon though.

Edited by WM Dirges, 25 December 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Saiphas Cain]

UM-R60, UM-R63, UM-R60L. There's just enough, not that any of them are a particularly good idea

[Vassago Rain]

Urbie doesn't have an AC20.

One variant, with almost no armor, has an AC20.

[Tarys]

So you wanna say one variant (UM-R60L) has AC20?

Edited by Tarys, 25 December 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Tarys, on 25 December 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

So you wanna say one variant (UM-R60L) has AC20?

I'm saying this thread is bad.

There's about 69683686675735 urbanmech variants, including clan tech and IIC ones. Virtually every faction makes use of urbies. Lack of variants isn't what's keeping it back, but the 60 engine, which doesn't work in MWO.

[Void2258]

How about just getting rid of the 3 variant stupidity and let people level the mechs they want? There, "problem" solved.

[Tarys]

somehow i have the Feeling People dont read what others write or they refuse to read certain part of the Posts ...
so my thread is bad because i come up with an idea how to implement a mech that wouldnt work in the normal fights? oh wonder i mentioned that myself ... and guess what? i even included an idea how to make this mech work in mwo -> a gamemode just for this one mech (maybe even more mechs that somehow dont fit into the current MWO gameplay; Hollander could be just another one). Instead of UrbanMech you could insert as good as any mech that would be different in gameplay and because of that unplayable with the current mechs.

but maybe my posting was to Long for 10k+ Posters ... i fully understand that you only fly over postings and actually dont read them ... so in short:

UrbanMech -> bad in current MWO -> new gamemode for Urbie -> no longer bad -> Profit for Players and PGI (what could be better than introducing a new gamemode than bring it with a mech that People love to have)

and regarding the 3 variant "Problem" ... i also introduced my idea for that.

[verybad]

Vassago Rain, on 25 December 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm saying this thread is bad.

There's about 69683686675735 urbanmech variants, including clan tech and IIC ones. Virtually every faction makes use of urbies. Lack of variants isn't what's keeping it back, but the 60 engine, which doesn't work in MWO.

So your'e saying PGI can't program a 60 Engine because it's too complex

Not many people are expecting an Urbie to remain stack if it gets in the game, but a LOT of people do want the mech in the game...

Edited by verybad, 25 December 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[FupDup]

verybad, on 25 December 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

So your'e saying PGI can't program a 60 Engine because it's too complex

Not many people are expecting an Urbie to remain stack if it gets in the game, but a LOT of people do want the mech in the game...

It's not complex, it's just that a STD or XL 60 engine would display a negative tonnage. Technically their weights would be correct after the required base sinks were added, but the tooltip on the engine itself would still read negative, which would be awkward. So PGI didn't add engines under 100.

My own favorite and actually really easy fix would be to just increase the tonnage of all sub-250 engines by integrating their required base sinks...

[Raggedyman]

Why is everyone so obsessed with bringing a 20ton mech into the game?
They can't be balanced in any meaningful way as the whole point of them in the tabletop is that they were cheap so you could have loads of the on a map. They were crappy, always were and always will be. Now they've become this fetishised thing that people want to shoehorn into the game because they think they will somehow magically be death on legs.
If you want to bring in the obscure bits of the original game then actually read up on what you are asking for and think "will this benefit MWO as a game or just make me feel special"
It befuddles me, it really does.

[Vassago Rain]

Raggedyman, on 25 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Why is everyone so obsessed with bringing a 20ton mech into the game?
They can't be balanced in any meaningful way as the whole point of them in the tabletop is that they were cheap so you could have loads of the on a map. They were crappy, always were and always will be. Now they've become this fetishised thing that people want to shoehorn into the game because they think they will somehow magically be death on legs.
If you want to bring in the obscure bits of the original game then actually read up on what you are asking for and think "will this benefit MWO as a game or just make me feel special"
It befuddles me, it really does.

Urbies aren't 20 tonners.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 25 December 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

My own favorite and actually really easy fix would be to just increase the tonnage of all sub-250 engines by integrating their required base sinks...

This.

Vassago Rain, on 25 December 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm saying this thread is bad.

There's about 69683686675735 urbanmech variants, including clan tech and IIC ones. Virtually every faction makes use of urbies. Lack of variants isn't what's keeping it back, but the 60 engine, which doesn't work in MWO.

Nothing's keeping the Urbie back, it's coming.

The 60 rated engine is merely a hassle, no more. There are many, many workable solutions to their hacky original scheme, they're proposed all the time as if that was the single barrier to Urbie goodness. That 60 rated engine is no more than an inconvenience.

What DID keep the Urbie back so long is PGI grossly underestimating the demand.

Raggedyman, on 25 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Why is everyone so obsessed with bringing a 20ton mech into the game?
They can't be balanced in any meaningful way as the whole point of them in the tabletop is that they were cheap so you could have loads of the on a map. They were crappy, always were and always will be. Now they've become this fetishised thing that people want to shoehorn into the game because they think they will somehow magically be death on legs.
If you want to bring in the obscure bits of the original game then actually read up on what you are asking for and think "will this benefit MWO as a game or just make me feel special"
It befuddles me, it really does.

It's a 30 ton mech, just like a spider.

[verybad]

FupDup, on 25 December 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's not complex, it's just that a STD or XL 60 engine would display a negative tonnage. Technically their weights would be correct after the required base sinks were added, but the tooltip on the engine itself would still read negative, which would be awkward. So PGI didn't add engines under 100.

My own favorite and actually really easy fix would be to just increase the tonnage of all sub-250 engines by integrating their required base sinks...

No need to do negative weights, simply add an engine with the qualities need. Each engine doesn't require other engines to be a certain way.

Edited by verybad, 25 December 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[FupDup]

verybad, on 25 December 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Npo need to do negative weights, simply ad an engine with the qualities need. Each engine doesn't require other engines to be a certain way.

It's the way PGI calculates engine tonnage.

Formula:
Original weight + cockpit tonnage (3 tons) + gyro tonnage (varies) - tonnage of external heatsinks needed


For example, let's look at the Urbie's STD60.
Default (TT) weight: 1.5 tons
Cockpit: 3 tons
Gyro: 1 ton
External sinks: 8 (only 2 internal)

Maths:
1.5 + 3 + 1 - 8 = -2.5

So our Urbie's engine would be -2.5 tons, initially. However, after we add in the 8 external sinks we need, then this would increase the tonnage up to 5.5 tons. Even though the end result tonnage is positive, PGI doesn't like the look of the negative weight prior to the base sinks being added.

My own idea to shove those 8 sinks into the engine and increase its weight (by 8 tons) fixes that situation...

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 25 December 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

It's the way PGI calculates engine tonnage.

Formula:
Original weight + cockpit tonnage (3 tons) + gyro tonnage (varies) - tonnage of external heatsinks needed


For example, let's look at the Urbie's STD60.
Default (TT) weight: 1.5 tons
Cockpit: 3 tons
Gyro: 1 ton
External sinks: 8 (only 2 internal)

Maths:
1.5 + 3 + 1 - 8 = -2.5

So our Urbie's engine would be -2.5 tons, initially. However, after we add in the 8 external sinks we need, then this would increase the tonnage up to 5.5 tons. Even though the end result tonnage is positive, PGI doesn't like the look of the negative weight prior to the base sinks being added.

My own idea to shove those 8 sinks into the engine and increase its weight (by 8 tons) fixes that situation...

Or remove the Cockpit and Gyro tonnage from all engines, and push it into the base tonnage used when the mech is otherwise empty.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 25 December 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Or remove the Cockpit and Gyro tonnage from all engines, and push it into the base tonnage used when the mech is otherwise empty.

That would actually make some of our current engines appear to be negative as well. It would basically subtract at least 3-4 tons from every engine, and some engines currently aren't even that heavy...).


For gyros in particular, the hard part is having the gyro actually scale up its tonnage based on the engine you're mounting. We've seen with things like the Targeting Computer that PGI has a hard time with things that have dynamic tonnage.

My only complaint with integrating gyro weight into the engine is that we can't mount any of the future gyro types with different tonnages. (XL gyro, compact gyro, heavy duty gyro).

Edited by FupDup, 25 December 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Void2258, on 25 December 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

How about just getting rid of the 3 variant stupidity and let people level the mechs they want? There, "problem" solved.

Yeah, really..

[Brody319]

Make up a variant...Seriously. PGI can do this. Just stick a restricted number of hardpoints and use that to make your variant.

Locust, 4-6 hard points.
Locust - P
Endo
Standard armor
Double heat sinks.
1 Missile in each arm
2 energy in the STs
Total hard points 6.

Boom totally new variant, expands the lore, isn't broken, fun to play.