15 replies to this topic

[Koujo]

Is there much use for a true scout in MWO? I've not really been interested in piloting a light in combat but the idea of a scout/sniper seems interesting. Something with Tag, BAP and maybe a single long range weapon to get behind enemy lines and target enemies for LRM users.

Good idea or stupid fantasy?

[Xoco]

I would like to try that too, but every time either:
1) People notice me and shoot the heck out of me, even when I'm really, really far off (well, if you're in a giant mech, even a smaller one is hard to hide)
2) They have ECM and I can't do jack anyway
3) They have the radar decay module thingamajig, and I being pretty new, do not have a counter for it.

sadface.

[John1352]

Think of it this way: Enemies have 2 direct fire mechs, lasers, cannons and PPCs. You have a scout with a couple of lasers, TAG, BAP, NARC. Your ally has a LRM boat.

You step out into line of sight of your enemies and begin taking lots of fire. 5 seconds after you start holding TAG on one of the enemies, your ally starts shooting LRMs from cover. By the time those LRMs hit their target, doing 40-60 damage spread over the enemy mech, you've been getting blasted for 10 seconds.

Lets say your enemies are in laser boating Stormcrows with 50 firepower. If we say that they have time to shoot you twice each (they could actually get three shots off in 10 seconds), that's 50 X 2 X 2 = 200 damage which can be aimed at components of choice.

TL;DR the scout gets destroyed, then the enemies can swarm the LRM boat and win very easily. LRMs need UAVs and enemies who don't shoot them down to be worth bringing.

[Tim East]

TAG isn't worth it, but BAP can be nice for cutting enemy ECM fields. I run a lightning brawler LCT3M, and it kind of inadvertently doubles as a scout.

[3xnihilo]

I am a dedicated light pilot but I gave up on spotter/scout builds because as a solo pug I find LRM boaring friendlies are not as common as it would seem. I have dropped with NARC several times only to find 4-5 of the 8 tons of weapons I was carrying were absolutely worthless because no one brought missiles. Tagging itself is an art form and requires super ninja skills to actually be an asset. I have come to find that as a light pilot I am most useful as an ecm escort and a harraser/vulture. I stick with the big guys let them distract the enemy then strike with "burst" fire weapons (srm, mpl, spl) then fade away.

[Koujo]

Seems agreed then, a dedicated scout build is not worth it. Yes I've had the exact same experience with narc also. Total waste of tonnage more often than not. Oh well, some other thread here about locusts has peaked my interest. I think I'll try the vulture / harasser role.

[stealthraccoon]

I elited my 1V pre-quirk with 4 machineguns and a TAG - and yes, I did get kills when I was smart about it, record was 3 in one match, and one of them was a headshot on a Hunchback.

You do end up having to put yourself into danger, and you will get destroyed with no damage done. But remember, those LRMers won't contribute if your fellow PUGs won't use the R button.

If you enjoy the assist playstyle, then give it a shot, but you need to be sure you aren't just taking up tonnage.

Edited by stealthraccoon, 05 January 2015 - 08:28 PM.

[3xnihilo]

Just as a counter point to what I posted earlier: I do scout and spot, I just don't carry tag or NARC because when the furball starts spotting becomes less useful and that extra ml or srm becomes invaluable. I put BAP on everything I can fit it on. And, I hold lock on my targets as long as possible to help friendly lurmers out. I feel like that is the best of both worlds.

[Bluttrunken]

A true scout? Not in a pugmatch, in a pugmatch you can't be sure if it is worth scouting at all. A ECM light with tag and/or narc can do wonders for friendly lurmboats, though, and sometimes its useful for non-lrm mech when they know an enemy is about to go around the corner, or that enemy mechs set up a line of fire where you don't want to go.. also early lock for streak launchers is super useful. BUT many times you will a. have no or maybe one lurm boat driving it effectively or b. your teammates won't be aware and exploit your scouting.

A good scout is nice to have in the right circumstances but in PUGs it might get terribly boring and useless.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 06 January 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[Darrious Quinn]

Scouting is one of those things that is different from person to person. Speaking as a Pugger, yes Scouting is often a futile act. Often times information is either misused (as in running face first into the enemy position) or ignored completely. In some instances you'll be scouting and someone will tag along.... just to give away your location because they start firing from your hiding spot. In PUG-Land, the definition of "scouting" is lost behind the noob face charges, cloud of LRMs and wall of clan auto fail cannon fire.

If you still want to pursue the idea of being the scout or recon, which I can understand the allure, you need to settle up on the right mech first. Personally my raven 3L is it. ECM, BAP, TAG and enough speed to GFTO if need too.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c3746e7f602fe9a

Scouting you'll need to have a understanding of the battle-grid and how to call coordinates and communicate. Now established merc units and other organized groups have their own way of doing things. Pug-land is no different. The trick is being clear, concise and quick. Telling your team that "4 clan heavies are in B4 moving to B5" will be worthless if it takes you too long to type out. Instead; "4hvy B4 to B5". This spells it out and you can knock it out in enough time so information is relevant.

The key point about scouting most people are ignorant too is that, Information can only be used as Intelligence for as long as it remains Relevant. In the example above, if those heavies are already in B5 by time you get your message out, its lost most of its relevance. This is what makes scouting difficult, especially in MWO Pug-land. On voice coms, it's a hell of a lot easier to get info across. Off comms though, you need to be quick on the keys as well as in the mech. because while your typing it out, guess what... someone can and will see you. Remember even something as simple as "many D4 gully" will get the point across. Then either keep tabs on that target, or scout out more. Your best bet is to find the one lance that no one has eyes on. Scouting the enemies main firing line is pointless when they are already trading shots with your team. Watch for flanking lances, lights and line LRM boats.

The other important point about scouting is that... you are the scout... not Dire Raven. Remain unseen as long as possible and don't take any shots at anything until your team has engaged your target. Most weapon fire will give your location away. Even TAG can give you up if you are close. So be mindful of who is facing your way and keep the weapons locked until the real fight starts.

Thing is, scouting only last for the first little bit of the match, then it becomes spotting. Like scouting you still need to stay hidden, but this is where TAG really shines. Assuming your team has LRM boats, paint the target and stay out of sight best you can. Always TAG from behind or flanks and never TAG the lead mech of a column, always the guy in the back. Why? Because less eyes to see you. We don't get TAG or NARC notifications. So if you are sneaking behind a Fat-Las or Dire-Fail just holding the TAG to his back.... and your LRM boys are in range? Someone's gonna rage. Due to the chaos of the battlefield though, you can see why this doesn't occur often. Only takes one mech to spot you and your on the run again.

Which brings me to my final points. Don't stay in one spot for too long. It only takes a subtle shift in position to tip someone off you aren't the rock you were pretending to be and suddenly you get dual guassed in the face and your smoldering corpse is bombarded with LRMs.
Once the scouting and spotting phase ends, retreat to your group and play close support and ECM cover. You'll know when it's time to pull back. Usually everyone has eyes on everyone else or your being chased by a handful of Firestarters.

Hope it works out for you. It takes time to find your nitch.

Edited by Darrious Quinn, 09 January 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[Bellum Dominum]

Scouting is loads of fun, but in solo que it's usually wasted

Tag is far from useless, but does take some getting used to using and if there is no lrm's on your team then it's only useful for trying to give your team some intel (narc's can be used this way as well).

I run two scouts: Spider 5D and the Raven 3L. If I'm working with an lrm boat (and on TS together) then I'll use a tag on the Spider otherwise I like the ER PPC. Raven 3L I actually run 2 med lasers and 2 narc launchers. Don't really 'need' 2 narc launchers but it's really nice because the narc launcher is so slow of cooldown.

[Void Angel]

Koujo, on 05 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Is there much use for a true scout in MWO? I've not really been interested in piloting a light in combat but the idea of a scout/sniper seems interesting. Something with Tag, BAP and maybe a single long range weapon to get behind enemy lines and target enemies for LRM users.

Good idea or stupid fantasy?

Xoco, on 05 January 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

I would like to try that too, but every time either:
1) People notice me and shoot the heck out of me, even when I'm really, really far off (well, if you're in a giant mech, even a smaller one is hard to hide)
2) They have ECM and I can't do jack anyway
3) They have the radar decay module thingamajig, and I being pretty new, do not have a counter for it.

sadface.

I've had excellent experiences with my scout - it's hard on you learning in the solo queue, but it's a very useful role which many people have let fall to the wayside. As a scout, it's not your primary job to deal damage, or even to spot for LRMs. You should and will do these things, but the primary job of a scout is to tell the team what the enemy is doing.

If you run your Spider 5D out to the flank and see that the enemy team is all flanking hard right, you should get under cover and tell your team that right away - type it out, use your words. Use Artillery Strikes and UAVs as your modules, then use those to disrupt and reveal the enemy team when your own team begins combat with them. You'll be able to do damage, once you get used to piloting a light scout (speed is life, never stand still, never cross a hill or exit cover where they expect you to if you can help it, etc.) - my Ace of Spades achievement was done in a Spider 5D with two Medium Lasers and an ER Large. Still, it's not your primary focus as a scout; your focus is relaying information to your team.

It's a hard knocks life, but it can be rewarding. Start off with an ECM chassis, and branch out from there as you prefer - and when you get to organized play, your drop commander will love having you.

[IraqiWalker]

Koujo, on 05 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Is there much use for a true scout in MWO? I've not really been interested in piloting a light in combat but the idea of a scout/sniper seems interesting. Something with Tag, BAP and maybe a single long range weapon to get behind enemy lines and target enemies for LRM users.

Good idea or stupid fantasy?

COM-2D Snipermando. I use an ERPPC, and prefer using it for sniping instead of the ERLL because it's a bit harder to trace back to the source.

[Void Angel]

139 kph is not fast enough for a scout.

[IraqiWalker]

Void Angel, on 09 January 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

139 kph is not fast enough for a scout.

For the ECM equipped 2D it's plenty enough, especially considering the main role is going to involve sniping. You should always be at least 600 meters away from anything else, and just spot, and snipe. It's not 150, but getting to that speed will actually preclude you from getting any sniping weapons (unless the ML became a sniper weapon, and no one told me about it)

[DrRedCoat]

I started off playing this game and made a name for myself (among the groups I play with) as a spotter. I may not do as much damage or get as many kills as I would in my other mechs but it just feels so much more rewarding (plus, I make way more c bills from all the TAG bonuses and such). I'll echo what's been said; spotting doesn't really work that well when PUGing so I generally don't bother using my spotter mech (a Raven 3L similar to Darrious Quinn's up above. mine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...809636c22d24fbc ).
Spotting really shines when you have a coordinated group that you know will make it rain when you call a target. Personally, I have two lancemates who will use a Mad Cat and a Catapult to really bring the pain. Getting into a position where you can TAG someone without being spotted is an art and does take time to perfect. But once you get it down, it's so satisfying to watch a heavenly rain of LRM justice sweep over the opposing team. The trick is being aware of absolutely everything happening on the field so you know when it's time to move. The best opportunities are when you find a lonely Atlas or Whale separated from the herd. TAG him for a bit so the LRMs soften him up and then continue to TAG as you move in for the kill. I find the lights' signature Circle of Death is more effective when the target is getting hammered by LRMs.