9 replies to this topic

[Liam Avery]

The Robinson Rangers helped defend Savinsville from Smoke Jaguar assault.

You're welcome... though expect retribution for the fifty-eight million lives lost during the Kentares Massacre.

[Lord Ikka]

It seems to me that after 200 years and three further Succession Wars that there has been blood spilled on both sides, honorable and not.

Jinjiro Kurita, while a military genius, was also a damned lunatic. He nearly destroyed the DCMS with the Kentares Massacre- many MechWarriors killed themselves out of shame afterward. He deserved to be killed after that debacle, there was no purpose in it. Kentares was a mistake, which the DCMS will freely acknowledge, but there is no purpose in declaring retribution for the actions of a madman and his centuries-dead warriors.

Thanks for the assist though, always good to see the Sun and Sword on the frontlines that aren't IS vs IS.

[Arcainite]

You keep talking about Kentares... Kurita defeated Kurita there more than Davion defeated anybody. Keep talking about ancient history when recent history shows clearly that Hanse Davion is the aggressor who started the Fourth Succession War for nothing more than hubris and to impress his new wife. Kurita is not scared of you, we are focused on fighting a superior foe, and no slight is intended there, because this foe is using technology superior to any Inner Sphere House. They have sucker punched us and our good friends the Free Rasalhague Republic and they are not above using nuclear weapons when they fail to defeat us. This threat is called the Clans. We have not forgotten about Davion, but you are the greater evil and the lesser threat right now.
Tai-sa Arcainite, proud to serve the Dragon

[Liam Avery]

Kentares and the Clans aside...

I am pleased to say that I had an honorable duel with one of your warriors, Lord Ikka. Conreg is a formidable pilot.

[Lord Ikka]

Yes he is. Our Regimental Executive Officer as a matter of fact, he just won an in-unit 1v1 tourney.

[Alexander Steel]

MISTAKE? Locking your keys in your car is a mistake. Slaughtering 50+ million people isn't a MISTAKE.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Alexander Steel, on 27 December 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

MISTAKE? Locking your keys in your car is a mistake. Slaughtering 50+ million people isn't a MISTAKE.

And it happened over 200 years ago. None of the people involved, on either side, have been alive for at least a century and a half.

Shall we hold the atrocities committed by the Suns in the distant past against the self-proclaimed shining knights of the Inner Sphere then? How about the abduction of an entire planetary population for use as slave labor?

"In 2357, the Federated Suns occupied the Sarna Supremacy world of Bell, easily overwhelming the local garrison. A combined Capellan task force arrived to contest the Davion occupation, but found nothing. No troops, no civilians, no bodies."
-- Handbook: House Liao, page 14

Said abductees were later freed by _Taurians_. Not set free by the wonderful, spotless Federated Suns.

Shall we hold you all accountable for the actions of the Screaming Eagles, a mercenary company in the employ of the Federated Suns, who during the 4th Succession War welded surrendered Capellan mechwarriors inside their cockpits and pushed the mechs into a river where the pilots drowned? That certainly goes against every rule of war concerning the treatment of POWs ever and is a far more recent event than Kentares.

How about the pogroms against people of Asian descent in the Federated Suns following Kentares. Shall we hold that against all citizens of the Federated Suns for all time?

Kentares happened a long time ago. Let the dead rest, both those unjustly massacred at the orders of a madman and those who could not live with what they had been ordered to do and chose to committ seppuku to atone for their shame.

[Lord Ikka]

It is when it happened 200 years ago, committed by a lunatic.

Edit: damn, ninja'd by Steinar Bergstol

Edited by Lord Ikka, 27 December 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Steinar Bergstol, on 27 December 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

And it happened over 200 years ago. None of the people involved, on either side, have been alive for at least a century and a half.

Shall we hold the atrocities committed by the Suns in the distant past against the self-proclaimed shining knights of the Inner Sphere then? How about the abduction of an entire planetary population for use as slave labor?

"In 2357, the Federated Suns occupied the Sarna Supremacy world of Bell, easily overwhelming the local garrison. A combined Capellan task force arrived to contest the Davion occupation, but found nothing. No troops, no civilians, no bodies."
-- Handbook: House Liao, page 14

Said abductees were later freed by _Taurians_. Not set free by the wonderful, spotless Federated Suns.

Shall we hold you all accountable for the actions of the Screaming Eagles, a mercenary company in the employ of the Federated Suns, who during the 4th Succession War welded surrendered Capellan mechwarriors inside their cockpits and pushed the mechs into a river where the pilots drowned? That certainly goes against every rule of war concerning the treatment of POWs ever and is a far more recent event than Kentares.

How about the pogroms against people of Asian descent in the Federated Suns following Kentares. Shall we hold that against all citizens of the Federated Suns for all time?

Kentares happened a long time ago. Let the dead rest, both those unjustly massacred at the orders of a madman and those who could not live with what they had been ordered to do and chose to committ seppuku to atone for their shame.

Thank you for saying something reasonable.

As a Davionite myself, I have to say that too many focus on the Kentares Massacre as if it was the only atrocity committed during centuries of peace. My brethren may be zealous in their love for our nation, but we all need to accept that every faction has at one point or another spilled too much blood.

The Succession Wars are a great example of that. The devastation was on a grand scale never seen since the formation of the Star League and the dominion of the Terran Hegemony over the Inner Sphere. I personally agree with the viewpoint that if we were to hold Kurita responsible for a crime, then it should be something very much recent. Not what happened 200 years ago. Though, I do not say forget. We should never forget how we were wronged, nor how we wronged others. We should forgive and move on.

Right now we are all facing a new and different threat. One that should force us to forget our disputes, and pay attention: The Clans. I say, what better way to spend time as Kuritans and Davionites than by sitting together over the wall of a citadel playing "Who can cockpit the Timberwolf" while we defend our worlds from them, and slaughter them in droves?

[Alexander Steel]

There is a difference between the actions of a unit and the actions carried out under the direct orders of the leader of the house.

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"In 2357, the Federated Suns occupied the Sarna Supremacy world of Bell, easily overwhelming the local garrison. A combined Capellan task force arrived to contest the Davion occupation, but found nothing. No troops, no civilians, no bodies."

Not as bad as killing the entire civilian populace of a planet off. The colony had 15,000 people... not 58 Million. Scale, it's a thing. They were later freed, and the sad thing here is that Romano and Mad Max would purge way more people in their psychotic hazes than were taken from Bell.

Quote

Shall we hold you all accountable for the actions of the Screaming Eagles, a mercenary company in the employ of the Federated Suns, who during the 4th Succession War welded surrendered Capellan mechwarriors inside their cockpits and pushed the mechs into a river where the pilots drowned?

Still not as killing off the population of an entire planet under the orders of your house leader. That said, the following notes are interesting about this event.

Quote

After this action the Eagles were tried and found not guilty of wrong doing, however both actions stained the unit’s reputation permanently.[8] This led to the unit’s eventual expulsion from Davion service and Mathis was cashiered from service of the Screaming Eagles.[9]

They were tried by the Merc Courts, found not guilty and were expelled from Davion service because they were not acting under the orders of the Command... which is sort of exactly opposite of having your house leader order something. Also, amusingly enough, by 3053 they were in service to the Magistry of Canopus who would later loan them to... House Liao. It's hard to feel bad about an event that the Liao Leader has no problem hiring the mercs who did it into his service.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 27 December 2014 - 10:06 AM.