17 replies to this topic

[AlphaToaster]

I wanted to start a discussion on this because I've noticed on some attacks recently, the attacking team ends up with 3 or 4 people at the end of the match that have 1 or 2 mechs left and the rest of their team is dead.

I mean, playing defensively is one thing, but when on attack, isn't the goal to kill the generators? I understand the idea of attrition, but as an attacker attrition only works if your team out plays the defenders while exchanging shots. Since defenders get a tactical advantage w/ field position, shouldn't the focus shift to killing the generators as a primary objective and attrition become a secondary (nice to have) goal? Ever since the added generators I notice pugs don't want to rush them anymore. Too many people standing around not risking their mechs is hurting attacks a lot.

So for this discussion I want to hear others opinions on this. Should players focus more on the objectives and less on surviving in their mechs on attack or vice versa?

[Pat Kell]

I think either one is effective, you just need to get the whole team on board before you execute it. Personally, I would almost rather lose than do a zerg rush...it's so boring, but I have done it before when the rest of the team wanted to do it. I play MWO to have some fun shooting mechs, and shooting generators is just not the same thing lol. So the key is, whatever you do, do it as a team. Splitting up, hanging in the back, rushing as half a team are all things that will almost guarantee a loss. If you want to win, get out of your comfort zone and follow the team.

Edited by Pat Kell, 24 December 2014 - 11:50 AM.

[AlphaToaster]

Pat Kell, on 24 December 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Personally, I would almost rather lose than do a zerg rush

By zerg rush you mean with all the lights? That almost never happens in PUGs that don't coordinate their mechs.

Or do you consider any push from the gate to the generator as a zerg rush?

We had additional generators added so that rushing from the gate to the generator as a team, focusing down the generator, will yield 1 all out brawl to the death for the attackers, 4 times over the course of the game, once for each wave. Without using this method I'm afraid pugs won't be able to beat premades. This is how PGI has balanced it.

[Pat Kell]

Yea, by zerg I mean rush to the base and taking down the generators at the expense of shooting mechs. I suppose it can work from time to time but premades are learning rapidly how to stop it and it ends up just being a frustrating 48-12 crush. I really like killing whats in front of me, advancing, killing advancing, rinse and repeat. Granted, you run the risk of being out matched but it's fun. Zerg rushes, I suspect, will continue to be evaluated by PGI and if it looks to still be an issue, they will up the health of the generators, increase the damage of the turrets etc until they find a balance that forces you to fight to some degree...at least that's what I suspect.

Pugs will have a harder time not agreeing on a strategy than anything else. If they all move as a team, it may be a tough fight but they can win. Just need to get everyone to agree which strategy you are doing from the start. Basically if not everyone agrees on a zerg rush, it's best not to do it as every one that sits out decreases the chance of a success.

[AlphaToaster]

I like that perspective.

[Mystere]

I just won an attrition match as an attacker. The key to winning in this match was aggression -- just like in any of the other game modes -- after opening just one gate and getting the upper hand in the exchange, while the other team was purely on the defensive. They were eventually distracted, split, and finally cut down when a second gate was opened and they thought there was going to be a push ... by a puny Mist Lynx.

[PorkCereal]

Problem with CW right now is the balance of winnings vs defending and attacking. Make objectives yield more rewards and people will be more apt to focus them rather then go for the cbills. 1/3 of the force wants to actually win, 2./3 are just farming cbills.

[Pat Kell]

I want to kill all the enemy mechs if possible, every single match and it's not because I want to farm cbills, it's because it allows me to march into the enemy base basically unopposed for a well deserved win after a tough fight...plus it's fun to shoot things that shoot back...which is why I curse those damn dropships every time I get shot by them. Some people may be wanting to farm cbills true, so use that to your advantage, get them to see the power and winning ability of being intelligently aggressive. You can get your win and they can get their cbills, win win.

[JadeTimberwolf]

I am all for organized pushes while on an attack but not Zerg Rushing. As for using up all your 'mechs in your launch deck, I think that if you are doing organized pushes and your team uses the right combination of tactics and careful advancing you should be able to weather any defense while blasting apart the generators.

[NGxT]

Look, you either are in fighting shape still, or you aren't. Don't just throw mechs away on a suicide rush. Trade favorably, and push in. If you don't need to change mechs, then don't. Nothing wrong with winning while you still have 3 mechs left in your dropship.

[CyclonerM]

NGRT, on 25 December 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

Look, you either are in fighting shape still, or you aren't. Don't just throw mechs away on a suicide rush. Trade favorably, and push in. If you don't need to change mechs, then don't. Nothing wrong with winning while you still have 3 mechs left in your dropship.

Indeed. We fight to take planets, not to make c-bills.

[NGxT]

CyclonerM, on 26 December 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Indeed. We fight to take planets, not to make c-bills.

No, you don't get it. It has nothing to do with farming cbills. The best way to farm cbills results in the same thing. 3 Mechs left in the dropship. You don't need to change mechs UNTIL YOU NEED TO CHANGE MECHS. Whether that is because you have taken too much damage, or used too much ammo, or lost some weapons, or another drop mech has a better loadout to deal with the enemy, the reason doesn't matter. If there's no reason to change mechs, don't. However many mechs you have left doesn't matter at all.

[CyclonerM]

NGRT, on 26 December 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

No, you don't get it. It has nothing to do with farming cbills. The best way to farm cbills results in the same thing. 3 Mechs left in the dropship. You don't need to change mechs UNTIL YOU NEED TO CHANGE MECHS. Whether that is because you have taken too much damage, or used too much ammo, or lost some weapons, or another drop mech has a better loadout to deal with the enemy, the reason doesn't matter. If there's no reason to change mechs, don't. However many mechs you have left doesn't matter at all.

So the OP really meant to keep fighting with more mechs even if they can get the victory?

[AlphaToaster]

What I got from this, is the general consensus is attrition strategies are more fun, even on a loss, because they grant more Cbills. That rushing strategies are less lucritive and more dangerous to mech survival, though they lead to the win. And that there are people who feel they don't want to risk mechs on pushing, even if it means they lose, because their goal is to have fun by earning lots of cbills, and not by winning. They associate losing even one mech with losing the game and not having fun, nevermind that there's an drop deck with 4 of them to use each match.

The key to victory is to get everyone to decide which method they want to persue at the beginning because both attrition and rushing requires everyone participate. If players decide they want to save mechs instead of risk them, then that's the players' preference based on their personal goals of dropping in CW, since I guess not everyone is dropping CW to actually win.

I wasn't trying to change anyones mind. Rather I was trying to understand the reasoning behind it, and gauge how many people felt which way.

[CyclonerM]

And we do not even have R&R or logistics..

[Pat Kell]

I don't want to do a zerg rush because it's boring. I chose not to rush in for a base cap not because I am afraid of losing a mech, nor is it because I want to farm cbills, I have been playing this game for 2 years and have plenty of cbills. I want to shoot the enemy where ever he is, I want to beat them in this game on the field of battle. I mean seriously, you can knock out an easy win by putting your mech at full throttle, shooting a few stationary, non threatening targets and claim that you have L33T skills but trust me, no one is impressed. Even a coordinated push, which can take some skill, is still just a bunch of people who recognize that they don't have any real skill at this game so they figure the best thing they can do for the team is to zerg rush instead of actually trying to improve themselves.

Zerg rushers, you will never get better at this game unless you actually shoot the enemy from time to time. But hey,it's your time, do with it as you want.

[CyclonerM]

Pat Kell, on 26 December 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Zerg rushers, you will never get better at this game unless you actually shoot the enemy from time to time. But hey,it's your time, do with it as you want.

How is it that i get at least 1 or two kills while pushing for the objective?

[JadeTimberwolf]

I hate to say this but I am seeing what appears to be a lot of misunderstanding here. Alpha, I don't think that you are understanding the general consensus the way I am. It seems to me your understanding is that people don't like zerg rushing because they want to farm c-bills, however if I was just in it for farming c-bills, zerg rushing is exactly what I would be doing. However improving skills comes from organized pushes and Pat I disagree with you on this aspect greatly, an organized push will go from map sector to map sector, lights being 1/2-1 1/2 sectors away from the rest of the forces doing cover dodges and spotting enemies for friendly forces as well as taking out what enemy turrets and generators they can while the mediums provide close support for the lights while the Heavies and Assaults stick together and fire on the enemies as they advance. What appears to be your preferred tactic (correct me if I am wrong) is to forget the objectives and focus fires on the enemy mechs, that requires an equal level of skill as an organized push only it doesn't require the lights and mediums to advance faster than the heavies and assaults but would in my opinion benefit more from everyone staying closer together.