38 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Basskicker, on 29 December 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

I second this notion. As a pure pug player myself I am tired of dropping and being one of two pugs on the team... yet I somehow am the only one shooting the objectives... looks like some units are to blame also.

Its not just the majority of pugs, I've seen even 7-8 man units performing the gatewarrior thing.

It's always a funny scene when everyone saying rgr, aff, etc to "ignore the mechs" statement before the push. But all go herpaderp following spiders everywhere after the push.

[Nostromodamus]

Cbills would be a good incentive. Just tonight I was spectating one guy who was just brawling and admitted straight up that he wasn't shooting the generators as it didn't make him any money.

Maybe also a tournament event? Get a pull from the bag for each generator you kill...

[Fishbulb333]

<player name> has killed <some mech that will respawn in 30 seconds>
<player name> has destroyed <generator #>

I think just displaying gen/turret kills in the chat window would be a good start, adding cbill/gxp rewards just makes sense too. Maybe add achievements and/or medals for the post-game screen.

Edited by Fishbulb333, 29 December 2014 - 09:21 PM.

[Cementi]

Navid A1, on 29 December 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

I also would like a GIGANTIC notification at the start... saying: HEY... arty and air does not have an effect on the generators...

so, stop legging your teammates near it... use your artys and airs on the defenders' intercept paths.




nope...no tag...no narc... they are immune to these marking devices... tested it a number of times.

Thanks never did get to try that.......seems like they need to make it so that these work.

[Cementi]

Fishbulb333, on 29 December 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

<player name> has killed <some mech that will respawn in 30 seconds>
<player name> has destroyed <generator #>

I think just displaying gen/turret kills in the chat window would be a good start, adding cbill/gxp rewards just makes sense too. Maybe add achievements and/or medals for the post-game screen.

Achievements just makes sense but I like the idea of medals though this still would leave it open to pot shots that happen to get the last hit. All damage done to objectives should count and maybe two separate achievements/medals, one for most objective damage (turrets should count for this as I feel they are secondary objectives, or you could make a separate category for turrets) and one for most objective kills.

Edited by Cementi, 30 December 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[ZenFool]

Cementi, on 30 December 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Thanks never did get to try that.......seems like they need to make it so that these work.

Tag and narc don't, but if you hop an ecm mech next to the gen it lights up. I've seen this tactic used quite a bit on boreal.

[Kirkland Langue]

I agree 100% that damage to generators should count towards total. Heck, damage to turrets should also count.

BUT - I disagree with blaming pugs for wanting to fight against mechs. The C-bill rewards and K/D ratios are earned from killing mechs, not suiciding past them. Pugs are Mercs, they aren't there to help you hold your territory. They aren't there to help you claim more territory. Pugs are Mercs, they are there for the C-bills earned through combat.

Until people realize this, you will continue to be upset by "gatewarriors", and those of us who want to win through attrition will continue to get 2k+ damage games, shooting at mechs through the gates.

[Joe Mallad]

Can we all stop with these threads on "we need to make pugs" do this or do that? You know... From the start if the match, how about try suggesting to your pugs what you might want to do? Most pugs will gladly follow the larger groups. If you don't communicate with them, what do you really expect them to do? On that note... it's already been said that PGI is working on in game VOIP. So once its in the game, you want your pugs to play nice and work with you... Use it! Communicate with them, otherwise stop complaining.

[wanderer]

Killing the targets for the mission should be as rewarding as killing the enemy unit. Win rewards should be equal for depleting one as it is the other.

[Demuder]

Yoseful Mallad, on 30 December 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Can we all stop with these threads on "we need to make pugs" do this or do that? You know... From the start if the match, how about try suggesting to your pugs what you might want to do? Most pugs will gladly follow the larger groups. If you don't communicate with them, what do you really expect them to do? On that note... it's already been said that PGI is working on in game VOIP. So once its in the game, you want your pugs to play nice and work with you... Use it! Communicate with them, otherwise stop complaining.

Idd, I have personally led complete pug teams to victory (and doom alike) just by typing in the horrible chat. But I still can't really blame people for trying to make c-bills instead of "winning" an otherwise inconsequential assault.

Let's be honest, winning on assault is not fun, it's repeat the rush and get it over with in hopes that your next drop will be a defense and you might actually get to shoot mechs then. 8+man unit drops can and do attempt to farm the defenders first, when facing pug teams (especially IS because they can always fallback to a light rush with relative safety) but I find this to be the exception to the rule.

PGI must find a way to make assaults inherently fun and profitable. Telling everyone to join a unit is not the way to go, solo drops are essential to CW, as much for the players' convenience as for actual matchmaking population demands.

Edited by Demuder, 31 December 2014 - 04:13 AM.

[asdbnmrty]

I like how everyone seems to miss that shooting at enemy mechs is considered a bad thing.

It's a mech combat game, where the best way to play is to not shoot mechs and unload all your weapons on static generators.

Find a way for PUGs to shoot objectives? How about find a way for developers to make shooting mechs desirable? We might as well call this game Mech-Avoid-Run-To-Generator-Warrior.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I agree a reward system needs to include turret and generator kills&damage as well as that precious Gauss Cannon. The gates should have an armour value like 150-225 then when reduced to zero it is gone.
While imperfect these two changes will be dramatic as far as how PUG behavior changes.

[Lbofun]

Cementi, on 29 December 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

I think they are under ecm though I have never had anyone tag or narc a generator to test. Might have to try that tonight would make life on Boreal Vault alot better if they could be narced. Anyone know the answer to this?

BAP works tho, have had a teammate near one with BAP and been able to get target lock and bring the rain from my pult.

As to the OP yeah it is kind of a pain. My group we are a bunch of friends so at most there may be 4 of us online at a time. There have been many matches where one of use have had to thorw ourselfes on the sword of the objective to try and clech the win only to end the match with a score of nothing, and not even the win. while some PUGs on our team have large scores b/c all they did was sit there and gatewarrior.

Edited by Lbofun, 31 December 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[ZeuS531]

The first time I tried CW I was actually unaware where the generators/objectives were. I thought shooting the gate would destroy it, not shooting the generator behind the gate. After a few matches watching people I finally understood and am learning more every day.

The game is not very friendly to newcomers and I do not frequent the forums often enough to always be aware of all the changes and nuances.

While I don't encourage the game to hold my hand and tell me what to do, I wouldn't mind some useful advice.

Another PUG mentality some might be overlooking is that even in regular gameplay objective modes (conquest, assault) killing the enemy team also counts as a win and some people might not realize this is not the case in CW (but killing all the defenders can mean a rather easy objective kill if there is enough time left).

From a tactical point of view killing some of the first wave of defenders might be tactically sound. Most people take their best 'Mechs out first so maybe their backups aren't as powerful? It could happen. Maybe. I'm an optimist. Sometimes.

Make defenders take longer to respawn (it's 30 mins total and 3 respawns, so 30 seconds isn't that big a deal). Maybe even scale up the time for each death (1 min for first respawn, 1:30 for second, 2 mins for last). Killing defenders just became more viable to earn breathing room (maybe make ejects have the 30 second window since that is the defender's choice and it does take a few seconds of immobility to accomplish).

[Caustic Canid]

ZeuS531, on 31 December 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

The first time I tried CW I was actually unaware where the generators/objectives were. I thought shooting the gate would destroy it, not shooting the generator behind the gate. After a few matches watching people I finally understood and am learning more every day.

The game is not very friendly to newcomers and I do not frequent the forums often enough to always be aware of all the changes and nuances.

While I don't encourage the game to hold my hand and tell me what to do, I wouldn't mind some useful advice.

Another PUG mentality some might be overlooking is that even in regular gameplay objective modes (conquest, assault) killing the enemy team also counts as a win and some people might not realize this is not the case in CW (but killing all the defenders can mean a rather easy objective kill if there is enough time left).

From a tactical point of view killing some of the first wave of defenders might be tactically sound. Most people take their best 'Mechs out first so maybe their backups aren't as powerful? It could happen. Maybe. I'm an optimist. Sometimes.

Make defenders take longer to respawn (it's 30 mins total and 3 respawns, so 30 seconds isn't that big a deal). Maybe even scale up the time for each death (1 min for first respawn, 1:30 for second, 2 mins for last). Killing defenders just became more viable to earn breathing room (maybe make ejects have the 30 second window since that is the defender's choice and it does take a few seconds of immobility to accomplish).

I agree with this, though they need to make the respawn count down from when the mech died, instead of waves. It's dumb when you destroy a defender only to have him drop at the objective a few seconds later in a fresh mech because he got lucky and died just before the next dropship wave. I shouldn't have to face the same pilot twice, unless our attack is going REALLY slowly.

[Willard Phule]

Hey, here's an idea....add the CW objectives to the tutorial so they'll know what they're looking for.

You know what I'm talking about...that "all inclusive" tutorial that PGI put out to attract new customers and to keep the old ones around. The tutorial that teaches you everything from heat management to targeting enemy mechs.

I mean...they did make a tutorial, right? What kind of game with complicated mechanics would overlook something as fundamental as that?

Caustic Canid, on 31 December 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I agree with this, though they need to make the respawn count down from when the mech died, instead of waves. It's dumb when you destroy a defender only to have him drop at the objective a few seconds later in a fresh mech because he got lucky and died just before the next dropship wave. I shouldn't have to face the same pilot twice, unless our attack is going REALLY slowly.

You drop with premade groups, don't you?

Try doing CW as a solo for a while, just to see the difference in dynamic. Most of the time, if you've got 12 random people on the team, you end up with a "drop the gate then stand around outside launching LRMs" sort of deal if you're on offense....if you're on defense, they migrate to the first red triangle they see, regardless of whether you warn them it's a fake or not.

New players are new, what can I tell you?

[Mystere]

The one sure way to make PUGs go for the objective is to not give the losing team anything, no c-bills, no loyalty points, no XP, no GXP, absolutely nothing. Make winning and losing actually mean something.

Just don't ask what side effects those might have.

[Zoid]

It might be better after the challenge is over. The times I was actually successful on attack were also the times I did not get 80 points for the match and thus no extra reward.

[Bigbacon]

Cementi, on 28 December 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

In the grand scheme of things I would prefer a redesign of the entire gate system. Something with ramparts that force the defenders to actually expose themselves somewhat to defend their gates. Have the objective to simply shoot the gate instead of a generator behind it (sorry still trying to wrap my head around spring loaded gates that open when power is cut, seems counter intuitive).

I personally do not like how on Boreal Vault a group of snipers can sit back in the middle of the map and snipe people on either side from one position. On top of that the way the generators on that map are attackers are forced into a VERY cramped area to even be able to open the gates. As a defender sniping people shooting the generator you almost cannot miss.

Sulphorus Rift on the other hand the generators are exposed and you can shoot them from many differnt spots so that defenders cannot easily focus fire. The down side is this map has few areas for defenders to get up by the gates to get actual shots on the attackers.

Its almost like the two maps are almost what I would like to see. Sulphorous Rift needs somethign for defenders to more easily fire back and Boreal Vault needs something so that Defenders have to work a little harder.

Either way, turrets and objectives need to give people more credit and not just the pilot that gets the final shot.

boreal has so many issues it should be removed until fixed. Attackers can hit beta gate while nearly hidden from the defenders, you have to stand right next to the game to hit them. The unobstructed views to the gates means the defending team and cover both gates pretty much without moving and if a rush starts it is easy to move about. least the other map means the team might hacvec to split to defend.

really CW is just another "mode" with a pretty map that sadly places anyone vs anyone and is mostly unfun.