41 replies to this topic

[Amsro]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

The only criticism that people have for these maps is the spawn camping, and I showed how that could be stopped.

The first map with both gates at nearly the same location is terrible, caustic bad.

Second map leaves little options since going anywhere but alpha gate vs good opponents is a loss.

Only the 3rd map can you have many battle locations and variance in tactics.

[MungFuSensei]

Amsro, on 10 March 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

The first map with both gates at nearly the same location is terrible, caustic bad.

Second map leaves little options since going anywhere but alpha gate vs good opponents is a loss.

Only the 3rd map can you have many battle locations and variance in tactics.

Funny, because having the gates close together on Boreal is a boon for the defenders, and yet people complain about spawn camping.

People don't spawn camp Alpha side on Sulfurous. That side is easier to defend than even Beta gate. Gamma gate is the easiest gate to attack.

[sdsnowbum]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

The only criticism that people have for these maps is the spawn camping, and I showed how that could be stopped.

You didn't show anything. Have you tried this 'tactic'?

The cover on Sulfur protects spawn campers from the defender dropships and the majority of the enemy. Attackers can duck behind cover and come out shooting before the newly dropped mech can get to cover. I did this last night.

In addition a single dropship can drop multiple new mechs depending on the timing of defenders dying. I saw 2 mechs get dropped at once by a single dropship, and we sniped both. One died on the landing pad and the other died making a suicide rush at us.

So really timing a push with incoming dropships is a flawed idea if you are expecting help from the new mechs or the dropships.

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

This is why you more readily hear about spawn camping from solo players and you rarely hear it complained about from units that roll 12 mans.

Fair enough. I just don't think the 12 mans NEED the help of map features that enable easy spawn camping.

Edited by sdsnowbum, 10 March 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[mekabuser]

cw at p[resent is doomed to fail. such a cavalier " oh u should do better" concerning the spawn camp is utter tripe.not many units roll 12 man defense. /
you r delusional... timed with ur dropship is the funniest thing ive read in ages.

half of u r being disingenuous entitled children n u know it.

i see right through the bs because i can survive the cheesy ecm laden , go the same route nonsense, hide in the same spot garbage time after time.

believe me.. im mad at the correct people.. the devs.
Im just disgusted with the groups who think they are so damn superiour that they refuse to acknowledge the problems faced by a SIGNIFICANT portion of the player population of CW.
map layout, and base defenses are currently a joke and any of you with half a brain know it..

is it not boring just slaughtering pugs? why the *** would you want to play like that..? Its WORSE than being beaten up.

[sdsnowbum]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

Funny, because having the gates close together on Boreal is a boon for the defenders, and yet people complain about spawn camping.

People don't spawn camp Alpha side on Sulfurous. That side is easier to defend than even Beta gate. Gamma gate is the easiest gate to attack.

I think Boreal would have gone over a lot better if it wasn't one of the first (and only at the time) 2 maps released. Can you imagine if CW was released Hellbore Springs covered with snow instead of Boreal.

You might be thinking of the wrong gates on Sulfurous. Alpha Gate on Sulfur is the gate by C2. Alpha is the gate where you can shoot the gate generator from ground level outside of the gate, from 1000m away. Alpha is the gate you can get to if you are heading to Beta and then change your mind by crossing over that pass at D6 (I think?).

[MungFuSensei]

sdsnowbum, on 10 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

You didn't show anything. Have you tried this 'tactic'?

The cover on Sulfur protects spawn campers from the defender dropships and the majority of the enemy. Attackers can duck behind cover and come out shooting before the newly dropped mech can get to cover. I did this last night.

In addition a single dropship can drop multiple new mechs depending on the timing of defenders dying. I saw 2 mechs get dropped at once by a single dropship, and we sniped both. One died on the landing pad and the other died making a suicide rush at us.

So really timing a push with incoming dropships is a flawed idea if you are expecting help from the new mechs or the dropships.



Fair enough. I just don't think the 12 mans NEED the help of map features that enable easy spawn camping.

That cover is extremely cramped. You're guaranteed arty hits. On top of that, the enemy should already be beat up by having to push in to gain that position. Then you have the dropship as well. The most that an attacking team should hope to farm is one drop (4 mechs). They'll focus on shooting those mechs, and you push in while they're distracted. It doesn't matter if the new mechs get a shot off or not. Also, the attackers can't present all 12 mechs to a counter-attack. There isn't enough room. That means you're not facing the full 12 against your smaller number of defenders.

mekabuser, on 10 March 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

cw at p[resent is doomed to fail. such a cavalier " oh u should do better" concerning the spawn camp is utter tripe.not many units roll 12 man defense. /
you r delusional... timed with ur dropship is the funniest thing ive read in ages.

half of u r being disingenuous entitled children n u know it.

i see right through the bs because i can survive the cheesy ecm laden , go the same route nonsense, hide in the same spot garbage time after time.

believe me.. im mad at the correct people.. the devs.
Im just disgusted with the groups who think they are so damn superiour that they refuse to acknowledge the problems faced by a SIGNIFICANT portion of the player population of CW.
map layout, and base defenses are currently a joke and any of you with half a brain know it..

is it not boring just slaughtering pugs? why the *** would you want to play like that..? Its WORSE than being beaten up.

You don't roll in a 12 man, and then you blame game mechanics for your problems, instead of your lack of group coordination. If only Marik had a teamspeak server you could hop onto and team up with other Marik players. Gee, wouldn't that be something special?

sdsnowbum, on 10 March 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

I think Boreal would have gone over a lot better if it wasn't one of the first (and only at the time) 2 maps released. Can you imagine if CW was released Hellbore Springs covered with snow instead of Boreal.

You might be thinking of the wrong gates on Sulfurous. Alpha Gate on Sulfur is the gate by C2. Alpha is the gate where you can shoot the gate generator from ground level outside of the gate, from 1000m away. Alpha is the gate you can get to if you are heading to Beta and then change your mind by crossing over that pass at D6 (I think?).

No, I know which gate I'm talking about. It's really easy to counter-attack the C2 corner. While it has open sight lines to the Omega gen, you can shoot into that area from like 2/3rds of the base. Also, it's very arty-prone.

[sdsnowbum]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

That cover is extremely cramped. You're guaranteed arty hits. On top of that, the enemy should already be beat up by having to push in to gain that position. Then you have the dropship as well. The most that an attacking team should hope to farm is one drop (4 mechs). They'll focus on shooting those mechs, and you push in while they're distracted. It doesn't matter if the new mechs get a shot off or not. Also, the attackers can't present all 12 mechs to a counter-attack. There isn't enough room. That means you're not facing the full 12 against your smaller number of defenders.

No actually it is the opposite. At C2 there are so many spots you can take cover in you are basically forming a semi-circle of protected attackers, and the drop zone on that side falls right in the middle of the semi-circle. While the rest of the base is blocked from the semi-circle.

I'm not just talking about the medium-sized hill at C2, there is also the bigger hill closer to the gate, the gate generator itself, even the stalagmites that shield the generator. The attacking team can take cover in all of these, and snipe at anyone who tries to rush or push on any one spot.

Edited by sdsnowbum, 10 March 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[MungFuSensei]

sdsnowbum, on 10 March 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

No actually it is the opposite. At C2 there are so many spots you can take cover in you are basically forming a semi-circle of protected attackers, and the drop zone on that side falls right in the middle of the semi-circle. While the rest of the base is blocked from the semi-circle.

I'm not just talking about the medium-sized hill at C2, there is also the bigger hill closer to the gate, the gate generator itself, even the stalagmites that shield the generator. The attacking team can take cover in all of these, and snipe at anyone who tries to rush or push on any one spot.

Again, I understand that. However, the reverse is true if the defenders hold at the gate. Or beyond the gate. Anything lighter than an assault (and some assaults as well) can get outside of Alpha gate with the gate still closed. It is the easiest gate to counter-attack, all the way out to the attacker's dropships. So the enemy should be dealing with you before they even get to the gate. Then when they do, you have 3 chokepoints near the gate gen.

Point is, they shouldn't ever get to C2, or by the time they get there, it's just some beat up stragglers. If the enemy gets a full 12 mechs into C2, you messed up. You had opportunities to prevent that from happening at multiple points.

[Monkey Lover]

Krivvan, on 10 March 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

I haven't experienced any delay like that.

As a player you can't tell. but i can tell you people are shooting you before you can even move. Heck they're shooting you inside the drop ship haha

[YCSLiesmith]

SteelWarrior, on 10 March 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Holy necro batman.

And you can totally kill a timberwolf before it can even move from its drop point, hell we kill anything under 50 tons before it even touches the ground. Should have a 5 second immunity to damage codded in.

you can kill anything regardless of weight before it touches the ground, if you've got ten guys shooting it from all angles.

[Necromantion]

Crockdaddy, on 28 December 2014 - 12:40 AM, said:

I am somewhat confused. We were accused of Spawn Camping tonight. We were attacking. In each case about half way through the match if not a bit earlier we basically decided to fight rather than finish the cap off right away. One reason was an attempt to get everyone to 80 points ... we have a lot of fresh players in the unit and we were working on new routes and showing them where to go we in no way were even close to our "A" team. Can you spawn camp when attacking?? Defense gets drop ships in bound AND DEFENSE turrets? They mentioned it was in the rules but honestly I am not aware of a rule which states this anywhere.

Welcome to -MS- life.

Monkey Lover, on 10 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

As a player you can't tell. but i can tell you people are shooting you before you can even move

A single dropship in that scenario would probably do more damage than the players getting farmed and are complaining in those situations

Edited by Necromantion, 10 March 2015 - 02:15 PM.

[sdsnowbum]

Necromantion, on 10 March 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

A single dropship in that scenario would probably do more damage than the players getting farmed and are complaining in those situations

This one does make me chuckle but if you stop and think about it that is actually the point.

The mech being dropped is utterly helpless. Clearly the dropships are armed to defend it and for no other purpose.

[mekabuser]

saying dropships do more damage than most players is both arrogant AND laughable.
oh. also incorrect.

if you are taking ANY kind of damage from the dropships youve gotten sloppy.

[mekabuser]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

You don't roll in a 12 man, and then you blame game mechanics for your problems, instead of your lack of group coordination. If only Marik had a teamspeak server you could hop onto and team up with other Marik players. Gee, wouldn't that be something special?

.

Im sorry , did i miss it whereby it states that I must be in a 12 man? Myself and Many others must be completely moronic.
Ive tried the marik ts.. game population blows, and i got limited time. As it is its a relative ghost town most nights in perhaps the most populous time. est usa. even as a join anything pug.

yeah its my fault.

[HARDKOR]

mekabuser, on 10 March 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

saying dropships do more damage than most players is both arrogant AND laughable.
oh. also incorrect.

if you are taking ANY kind of damage from the dropships youve gotten sloppy.

This is the dumbest thing I have read all day. Every time the dropship comes, 7 med lasers deliver 100 percent of their damage to the weakest component they can find. They take at least two shots, maybe three if they came the long way. That means that if there are people all up in your DZ for the respawn of all four of your mechs, the dropships did about 400 damage for you, which, if you are the guy getting farmed, is probably more than you did the whole game. Add in turret damage(2 erL x 1-20 shots before someone blows it up = 20-400 damage per turret) and it pretty much guarantees that the turrets and dropship did more damage than the average player.

mekabuser, on 10 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

yeah its my fault.

Acknowledging this is the first step to recovery.

Edited by HARDKOR, 11 March 2015 - 11:52 AM.

[Necromantion]

mekabuser, on 10 March 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

saying dropships do more damage than most players is both arrogant AND laughable.
oh. also incorrect.

if you are taking ANY kind of damage from the dropships youve gotten sloppy.

It is actually the truth. I am sure that those 7 large laser dropships that hit 7 targets 3 times before they are out of range do more damage than most crappy and average players

9x7x3 = 189 damage.

At least that is undeniably more damage that an average player would be able to get into the most damaged component of an enemy in that time. Heck 3-4 dropships do more damage than those players do in most games.

[HARDKOR]

Actually, the average player is only getting 10-900 damage out of all four of their mechs total.

If you have your whole team get more than 1000 damage you are pretty much guaranteed the win.

Edited by HARDKOR, 11 March 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[Nightmare1]

HARDKOR, on 11 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Actually, the average player is only getting 10-900 damage out of all four of their mechs total.

If you have your whole team get more than 1000 damage you are pretty much guaranteed the win.

Hey Hardkor, you might get a kick out of this:



We lost, but it was a great fight! I don't mind losing that kind of battle.

[Ultra-Laser]

I'm not against dropship farming on principle. If it happens its because the other team is simply willing to press the advantage that their position allowed them, nothing wrong or broken about it when one team straight up out outplays another. It is the nature of directionless pubbies to be rolled by any team with an ounce of sense and a modicum of teamwork. But having an entire lance of players get farmed into oblivion while their team mates escape comparatively intact is highly frustrating for those poor farmed souls, as their CW mechs are now locked into that match for however long it takes the winning team to finish playing with their food.

Spawn camping will never end and I don't mind that in the least, cruelty to pubbies is a universal pastime for 12-mans after all, but giving proper teams and even pub herders with an ounce of sense a way to do damage control wouldn't be the end of the world. The most direct solution would be allowing company commanders to re arrange lances, and therefore where those players spawn from, using the command screen. The team would still be losing mechs right out the gate, but now at least they aren't loosing participants as quickly either.

Notice how the above solution requires not major rework of any aspect of the existing gameplay or interface, requires at least one player on the loosing team to know what the hell he's doing, and most importantly of all it won't do anything on its own to prevent the team getting rolled from continuing to get rolled. What it will do for teams that actually have a fighting chance to start with keep from having players locked out of the match any sooner (not like CW needs any more waiting around then it already does after all) and have players who are able to coordinate their noble sacrifices drop in mechs the team can afford to loose. A system that reduces player frustration while at the same time rewarding team coordination is something that everyone finds agreeable correct?

The only hang up I have about this idea is that people could "team kill" by sorting their victims into the farmed dropship, but it's not like leaving the system be would keep them from TKing dudes right out the dropship anyway so I'd be completely for this being added even if this is a potential issue. Maybe it would only need to be restricted to premade teams only? You need to get into a premade first sure, but other then that this would meant that everyone has the chance to fight rather then having their mechs stuck in a loosing match. Plus solo players could still benefit provided they were in a match with a premade commander, so everyone could wins not lose quite as hard or painfully this way.

[Gas Guzzler]

Johnny Z, on 08 March 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

I have an issue with the defending dropships using medium lasers instead of the ERLL. This is likely a test for the beta though. Again this is beta so this is all to be expected.

Considering that I have seen the defending dropships secure more kills with medium lasers then most players on the enemy team, I think having ERLL would be pretty OP. Those things really hurt with the aimbot the dropships use. I mean, the defenders have to do something.