Jump to content

Jester Vs Thunderbolt 5Ss


12 replies to this topic

#1 JC Daxion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 5,230 posts

Posted 27 December 2014 - 05:36 AM

so i have been playing both these mechs as of late... First when the T-bolt quirks hit.. I bought a 5ss and lvl'd it.. (as i already had 3 mastered,, and i really love the mech anyway) Wow talk about a fun mech! I still have yet to play any of my other T-bolts.. so i will not comment on them post quirk..

My poor 5SS got nerfed but come on, who did not see that coming lol...... No more MPL heat reduction.. I'lll tell ya jut that tiny change was a big hit. But i also ran a pair of ERLL's in the upper right torso, So it only effected 5 of my weapons. To me the slight reduction in close range alpha, is vastly inferior to being able to peg stuff at 1200+ and come on.. you barely even need to show your head to do it.

So then i have been messing around with my catapults since the quirks.. the C1, 3 MPL's, tag, + dual LRM 15's, I thnk this runs an XL280..

the C4, a pair of LRM 20's and streaks,, with a pair of SMPL's in the center, along with BAP, (yea,,, unless someone has Tag i am screwed, with ECM, but.. i tend to LRM brawl in the 200-400 range.. so BAP is very useful, not to mention, a must for streak lock. I run a slower XL-260 in it.. L4m 40 machine does not need to go anywhere fast...

Then the K2.. XL-280, a pair of PPC's and AC5's.. Wow... just a great pin point mech.

(i still dont own the A1, but will one day)


which leads me to the whole point of the post.. The Jester.....

I must say, this mech is just as good, if not better than the thunder-wub... (ill post smurfy links later)


But, it all boils down to,, The jester, is a much faster, much more maneuverable mech, loaded up with Dual AMS and a full 6 tons, along with radar dep, you are not getting hit, and your lance is very protected.. While the dual JJ"s might not be much, it really does make the mech 10x more mobile over the 5ss. Not only that, i can stuff an XL320, or 340in it, and basically keep the same build. I also run BAP .. and i swap to LL's, verse the ERLL's of the 5SS for heat. To me, the 5ss is a sniper, and a brawling killer. The jester.. is just a medium range.. death trap.

The best part though, the jester gives you that Bonus C-bills.. But honestly, i tend to get more C-bills, on the T-bolt on a good match.. while the jester i seem to be more consistent.


So guys... what are your experiences between the two mechs, and which would you recommend? feel free to debate the STD over the XL in the Tbolt.. (though i don't think there is any debate about running XL in a cat)


thoughts?

Edited by JC Daxion, 27 December 2014 - 05:40 AM.


#2 Spheroid

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,066 posts
  • LocationSouthern Wisconsin

Posted 27 December 2014 - 07:16 AM

I suggest you immediately run the meta 7x mplas, 300 STD build and revaluate just how good it is.

#3 ShadowbaneX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,089 posts

Posted 27 December 2014 - 12:24 PM

View PostJC Daxion, on 27 December 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

thoughts?


ummm...

View PostJC Daxion, on 27 December 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

loaded up with Dual AMS and a full 6 tons


SIX BLOODY TONS OF AMS AMMO?! If the entire enemy team was clan LRM boats you'd be hard pressed to go through 6 tons of AMS ammo.

Also, the Jester has the LL quirks and the Thud-5SS has the MPL perks. Even with the generic 15% energy weapon cooldown, the 50% increase in range is insane. I think I did over 1000 damage in my first match with the 5SS, ie before I had Cool Run unlocked.

My thoughts? Pass around whatever it is you're smoking, because it's obviously some potent stuff. Once that's done, as Spheroid suggested, go load up with 7 MPL, STD 300 mech that everyone is running and go hammer things in the face for 42 damage an alpha.

Then go put a 300 XL in your Jester with a trio or quartet of LLs and a bunch of heat sinks and then go melt some more faces.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 27 December 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#4 JC Daxion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 5,230 posts

Posted 28 December 2014 - 08:33 AM

I meant 3 tons, aka 6K rounds, But actually i forgot, it is 2.5 tons, and 5k rounds... But i have to ask how much you guys have run the 5SS post nerf, because i rarely see another in match after the dec 9th patch. (though i still think it is one heck of a mech).

even with an STD, you still are slower, and lack the JJ's.. To me the trade off with being able to damage at 1k+ range is worthy going XL, than being able to loose a side, with just a slight more damage up close, you are only talking about 2 extra lasers which we know in sustained brawls, especially on hot maps, those extra lasers just go unused after a bit.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...60321e4da16a490


Compared to the ERLL version.. It runs just slightly hotter, But has a higher alpha, which you can just switch to your 5MPLs for sustained short range fights because of heat, But as i stated before anything more, you are just having to cycle with 7 anyway.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8fba02fdb994d3a



Here is the jester for comparison, While it runs a bit hot, when switching to just MPL's up close, it actually runs a bit cooler than the T-bolt and still packs a sustained punch. But the funny thing is both mechs, i really enjoy, especially when coming across a they typical 5SS, as i can rip um apart while they are still way out of range which is a big bonus. Blow off their right torso, before they can close, leaves um with just 3 weapons.. Or even just opening up holes in armor, before they even get close is often enough to really rattle them, and they are easy pickings by the time they get to brawl range. Get um to waste a shot on your left arm.. and you are on very even terms as far as the brawl will go, as now they are also under strict heat management, and they are working on a fresh mech, and you a shot up one.

Also those 2 JJ's and extra speed can make it so they can never close on you, and a Medium range mech that cant close, you have zero to worry about while you pound on them from afar.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...928875c63f25f97


You can play around and remove weapons to find the Real heat adjustments for how the mech is played.. While the 7MPL, before the MPL heat nerf was a beast, I find sense the MPL heat removal, to just generic laser, the New load out is a better fit. I have run this 5SS build in 12 mans, on a pretty good group, and got kills, and did near top on damage many matches.. I also find the catapult, i can average 400-600 most matches, with the 800-1k matches here and there. The same runs true on the 5SS. It really depends on the team, as a good team you just arn't hitting those numbers because others are doing their part.

sure if you want to play a sniper jester, going with LL's is better, but i find mixing up lasers, for the brawls that will come is just better. Maybe that is personal preference, but i find getting into the mix, helps the team more often than not. You take damage, others take damage, ect.. Nothing to me is more infuriating after dying at the end of a match, we could of won, if only the sniper had decided to move in and help soak some damage, instead of sitting in a fresh mech at 1k+

It packs a slightly larger engine, and they run basically the exact same DPS, BUT, if you switch to 4 MPL's in a closer brawl, you will out damage the 3LL version, and be under way less heat management, as yours will jump to over 80% efficiency.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a36fe55e26af8b

I've run the other set ups, and find this works better for me.. so i thought i would post about a set up, that is not the typical build, but still works wonderful. Give it a try!

#5 ShadowbaneX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,089 posts

Posted 28 December 2014 - 08:55 AM

I've only ever played the 5SS post nerf. I didn't own one until like 2-3 weeks ago. It's a beast. I manage 1000+ damage in it every other match it seems. If that's not enough I don't know what else to say.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 28 December 2014 - 08:58 AM.


#6 InspectorG

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Boombox
  • The Boombox
  • 4,469 posts
  • LocationCleveland, Ohio

Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:11 AM

View PostShadowbaneX, on 28 December 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

I've only ever played the 5SS post nerf. I didn't own one until like 2-3 weeks ago. It's a beast. I manage 1000+ damage in it every other match it seems. If that's not enough I don't know what else to say.


Maybe he just naturally pilots a Jester better?

#7 Alekzander Smirnoff

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 427 posts
  • LocationUS

Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:34 AM

This is how I run my Jester. I have the adv zoom module, LL range, LL cooldown, and Mlas range modules on mine. It does pretty good and because of the speed and mobility I can do exceptionally well with it. Personally I prefer to run my 9S meta in CW and my 9SE w/LPL in pug's

#8 Virlutris

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Spear
  • The Spear
  • 1,443 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationVery likely goofing off in a match near you.

Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:46 AM

Or, you could run what I call the "Mad Jenner" with 6MPL, which is a better CPLT/TDR comparison with the current meta "ThunderWub."

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5d51895d81c4cab

Because it can run a big XL relatively safely, there's more speed, and therefore more strafing and swerving, which seems to distribute the damage better than the laser-sniping peek-and-shoot configs I've tried.

I'ts probably more a piloting failure on my part, but I get cored faster in a sniper Jester than in any other sniper mech, or any other Catapult. I find this build for this 'mech to be far more fun for me, and oddly effective. Then again, I don't own a ThunderWub to compare with it yet.


Edit: Clarity, and original build credit to Cyanid7 over at mechspecs.com for the "Big Brother" build.
http://www.mechspecs...-jj-xl350.3795/

Edited by Virlutris, 28 December 2014 - 10:52 AM.


#9 loopala

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 1,244 posts
  • LocationDa UP of Mich

Posted 28 December 2014 - 07:50 PM

jester vs thunderwub is like light vs assault.
if you want to tank and and slap clanners in the face toe to toe take the want a be assault, thunderwub.
if you like to dance and move around like a leaf on the wind take the big over grown jenner, jester.
same tonnage but completely different play styles. both are very good mechs in the right hands both can be excellent.

#10 JC Daxion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 5,230 posts

Posted 29 December 2014 - 06:55 AM

@ShadowbaneX,

I'm not saying it is wrong to play it with the 7MPL's, and it is a good build.. I was just posting something a bit different is all, And sticking with using Quirks as a good size buff.. But as i have been playing the last month, it hit me me as how similar i was playing both and how the chassis differ, in small ways.. What got me thinking outside the box, is how the quirks are really fairly generic for the most part since the Dec 9th change..

TDR-5SS
Additional Structure (LT/RT) +15
Energy Weapon Cooldown +15%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation -15%
Medium Pulse Range +25%
Energy Weapon Range +25%

all but MPL range, are generic. (a decent step up in range)

Jester

Additional Structure (Arms) +10 (CT) +10
Energy Weapon Heat Generation -10%
Laser Duration -10%
Large Laser Range +7,5%
Energy Weapon Range +7,5%

only the 7.5% range is LL specific



@loopala, Yea, that is really a feeling i got with it... You kinda hit the nail right on the head..


@virlutris, I plan on trying that, as i now have a few bigger XL's to use! picked up a XL-340 with a new mech purchase, and thanks to the free victor, i also own the XL-350! But you know how it is.. after not playing a mech for 6+ months, i like to play with what i was running before To see exactly how the quirks changed them. Ill be trying the 6 MPL jester for sure, but the 4LL I have a feeling that is better left to my Stalkers

I never had the T-bolt 5SS till it got quirked, But i did own 3 others already.


anyways.. I just figured i would post about my experiences between the two, because that is one thing i love about this game, is how different you can play the same mech, and still be effective. Now back to grinding with my jester, because i need more modules! (yes LL range, and cooldown are still on the list) :)

Edited by JC Daxion, 29 December 2014 - 07:02 AM.


#11 ShadowbaneX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,089 posts

Posted 29 December 2014 - 10:30 AM

Your version will have a bit more to do in the opening stages with the ER LLs, but when it comes time to mix it up you're looking at 42 damage vs 30, and the vulnerability of an XL engine.

The Jester though, that's where I've got the main issue. Those MPLs only get the 7.5% additional range vs. the 50% on the Thud, and you've got the XL issues. Granted, the Catapult is a pretty good mech for XL engines, and it'd have better maneuverability with the JJs, but it's still lower on the survivability.

I don't know what I'd do with the Catapult though. I'd consider something like a 300 STD, 2 JJ, 2 AMS (1t), Endo & Ferro (412/422) and 3 LLs. That way you've got way more survivability with 3 torso mounted LLs, good speed (all my Catapults run 300 engines and are quite maneuverable once you've got the 2x basics). I just don't see the Jester as a good mech for MPLs.

#12 On1m

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 110 posts

Posted 29 December 2014 - 10:37 AM

Take the 5SS and run it with a STD 300 and 7 MPL's. Set up 3 fire groups, one for the 5 lasers in the torsos, one for the 2 in the arm and a chain fire for everything. Alpha when you can and then alternate between using the 5 in the torso and then the 2 in the arm when you start to overheat. In a tight fight you should always be at above 50% heat to be most effective.

#13 Virlutris

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Spear
  • The Spear
  • 1,443 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationVery likely goofing off in a match near you.

Posted 29 December 2014 - 01:32 PM

@ShadowbaneX: Lots of mechs are better quirked for the MPL's. I can't think of any that combine a high engine cap, XL-ability, and long-ish/low-ish profile at that weight. The Jester's unique for those in the higher weight classes, so I like to take advantage of it. :D

It's probably not the best fit for everyone. Then again, it's not really about the MPL's, so much as it's about the mobility with which the pilot delivers damage to the target and spreads incoming damage. The 6 MPL's and boated DHS are pretty mean in the kind of hit-and-run game that a 96-kph Cat is playing. Also, lulz ;)

For sure, YMMV, and then some. This is probably a playstyle thing more than anything else. Then again, I love me some sniping, just not in the Jester. Go figure.







1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users