41 replies to this topic

[Diznitch]

Meta cracks me up. It reminds me of people who think the fast car wins the race. I looked at some of the meta builds, and they don't reflect what I play well on those chassis. That's why meta makes people so angry. If you can play a certain build, you own. But if you can't... you get owned. It was like Enchanter in EQ. Either you sucked and died all the time, or you figured out how to mez without dying. Very few high level Enchanters to be had, because it was the meta ... and it was a *****. But fun for those who could rock the meta... Personally, I find MWO so varied and complicated that there is always a chance to pwn.

[Vercinaigh]

Diznitch, on 28 December 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Meta cracks me up. It reminds me of people who think the fast car wins the race. I looked at some of the meta builds, and they don't reflect what I play well on those chassis. That's why meta makes people so angry. If you can play a certain build, you own. But if you can't... you get owned. It was like Enchanter in EQ. Either you sucked and died all the time, or you figured out how to mez without dying. Very few high level Enchanters to be had, because it was the meta ... and it was a *****. But fun for those who could rock the meta... Personally, I find MWO so varied and complicated that there is always a chance to pwn.

Nice speech, false and irrelevant, but nice speech. Meta = meta because it's the best, easiest and most generally effective way to win. It is no more or less complicated than that, period. Anyone can learn it, anyone can do it, it's not a super secret fan club and there just isn't that many of these "mechajesus" pilots in this game as people think, there's some, I know them all, but there isn't even enough to field a full CW unit, and spread out all over the game.

If you for whatever reason can't play "metamechs" then it is entirely your own unwillingness to study and learn, and not because somehow others are god or whatever other BS excuses people come up with....I've heard them all...

Edited by Vercinaigh, 28 December 2014 - 11:16 PM.

[HARDKOR]

Ya, the meta mechs are the easiest to use. Only one or two weapon groups, complimentary ranges and travel times, and most efficient use of tonnage.

[Strikeshadow]

Snuglninja, on 28 December 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

First of it is beta yeah I know we have heard this for years now, but it is not fun because it is the same map over and over. No real reason for cw, no strategy to taking planets, nothing.
Seem like there is a fix they could do now. Lower the amount of planets being attacked or defended. Use the invasion map for for initial attacks and or counter attacks. Then use other maps and modes and different drop tonnage to represent fighting across the planet.
But at least "cw" is here I never really thought we would see that.

This is being discussed go here.

http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

[EvilCow]

Krivvan, on 28 December 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

This usually happens because the attacking team always insists on trying to trade back against the defenders instead of torso twisting and just going for the generator and tanking the hits.

True, but this is just a way to adapt to the inherent problem here, a group HAS TO BE coordinated into a rush taking hits, the other group HAS TO try to stop them.

Where is the fight in this scheme? Also the maps are done in a way that the direction of the attack is obvious and always the same, why exactly? I imagine that scouts were not part of the design equation.

[Roadbeer]

I don't know where the OP is fighting but pretty much every meta has a counter now. It's not like the TDM days with one build to rule them all.

I'm running a C4, K2 and Sarah's Jenner in my drop deck right now, none of them are the "meta" and i'm doing just fine, tyvm.

[AlphaToaster]

I'm looking forward to more maps. I think that will go a long way towards adding some variety to CW.

I notice in the solo queue that a wave of passiveness sometimes befalls my team. When this happens in CW and I'm on the attack, it's almost doomed from the start. I've had games where I had to burn up 2 mechs to open the gates on Boreal by myself because no one else was risking their mechs to shoot the generators. It can be really frustrating when no one else seems to care to attack, when they're on the attacking team. I've also seen players just standing around waiting for someone else to hit the generator.

Then you get those guys who have 2 fresh mechs in their drop deck remaining while everyone else is on their last mech. Wouldn't it have been more helpful to use those up opening the gates sooner, rather than be the last one alive in the drop zone getting spawn camped by the entire defending team?

You know you had a bad game when 7 players on your team don't break 300 damage across 4 mechs.

And even after all of that, pugging with no large groups on my team, and defeating an 8man premade on attack is a great feeling. Or winning an attrition battle on Boreal as attackers. I get enough games like those, playing as a pug/2man, that it makes it worth it to wait for more maps and see how it plays out.

[pwnface]

Vercinaigh, on 28 December 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

Anyone can learn it, anyone can do it, it's not a super secret fan club and there just isn't that many of these "mechajesus" pilots in this game as people think, there's some, I know them all, but there isn't even enough to field a full CW unit, and spread out all over the game.

My alt account is actually "mechajesus".

Some players from 228th called me mechajesus when my legged and nearly armorless TBR took out 3 lights trying to kill me.

Edited by pwnface, 29 December 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Meta has nothing to do with any of the problems.

The two keystones of the team getting ROFLstomped are:
-bad builds
-not playing like a team

In the current state with quirks and omnimechs is it is much easier to make trashbuilds. We have quirks for IS mechs and limited hardpoint variation for clan mechs. What quirks mean is that there are builds that are even more optimized, like the ThunderWub. Last night I saw an idiot with a TDR-5SS with three Large Lasers and an LRM20, I pointed out there is actually a TDR optimized for that build, the TDR-5S. Or the other idiot running 8 medium lasers on an FS9-A.

PROTIP: like a certain weapon or weapon combination? There's a mech for that now. Like a certain mech as well as a certain weapon or combination? There's also probably a variant that has the favorable quirks.

And you can't blame the UI for it either, it lists the quirks in game.

TL;DR: leave your snowflake builds like your double LBX hunch in the solo queue.

[operatorZ]

HARDKOR, on 28 December 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

Ya, the meta mechs are the easiest to use. Only one or two weapon groups, complimentary ranges and travel times, and most efficient use of tonnage.

I though this was just good mech design,,why pair weapons that don't work well together...? and i only have two buttons on my mouse so I cant run 3 weapon groups....didn't know that was meta...guess I thought meta was cheese builds like splat- whatever, streak whatever, dual gauss whatever, basically boating weapons of same type to take advantage of those weapons inherent advantages in certain situations....wait...that's just good mech design too....I'm confused



​no I'm not

[Belorion]

CW is fun and a great start...

[Kyrie]

I tend to agree that CW is, at the moment, a fairly frustrating experience. However, I embrace it in the hopes that it will be massively improved over time. From my perspective, CW without meaningful logistics and consequences is pretty devoid of content.

There also needs to be a lot more meaning to faction ranks than has been promised to date. Faction rank should integrate into command and control authority systems in CW, particularly for House Loyalists (remember when those were mentioned? ;-) ).

[riverslq]

stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow
DWOLF!
stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 29 December 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Meta has nothing to do with any of the problems.

The two keystones of the team getting ROFLstomped are:
-bad builds
-not playing like a team

In the current state with quirks and omnimechs is it is much easier to make trashbuilds. We have quirks for IS mechs and limited hardpoint variation for clan mechs. What quirks mean is that there are builds that are even more optimized, like the ThunderWub. Last night I saw an idiot with a TDR-5SS with three Large Lasers and an LRM20, I pointed out there is actually a TDR optimized for that build, the TDR-5S. Or the other idiot running 8 medium lasers on an FS9-A.

PROTIP: like a certain weapon or weapon combination? There's a mech for that now. Like a certain mech as well as a certain weapon or combination? There's also probably a variant that has the favorable quirks.

And you can't blame the UI for it either, it lists the quirks in game.

TL;DR: leave your snowflake builds like your double LBX hunch in the solo queue.

yeah
but find me a pug group that works as a team
hell, finding even groups on comms that have good strategy is pretty damned difficult at times


you use your fourth mech yet on this post?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

riverslq, on 29 December 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow
DWOLF!
stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow
stormcrow


yeah
but find me a pug group that works as a team
hell, finding even groups on comms that have good strategy is pretty damned difficult at times


you use your fourth mech yet on this post?

Shoot, there are a lot of teams that don't play as a team.

I had to use my fifth mech on this post

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I find CW not fun as well, but from other reasons.
First and the most important is garbage fps.
Other thing is that game play is just not fun. There is no mek fighting there. As attacker I am supposed to ignore def team and just go for gens, as a def at least I am shoting at others meks, but that is somewhat depressing as well, as they ignore me and usally dont even bother to shot back.
w8 times and empty drops derpressing as well. Giving up on CW slowly.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 29 December 2014 - 05:24 PM.

[Bigbacon]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 29 December 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

I find CW not fun as well, but from other reasons....

Other thing is that game play is just not fun. There is no mek fighting there. As attacker I am supposed to ignore def team and just go for gens, as a def at least I am shoting at others meks, but that is somewhat depressing as well, as they ignore me and usally dont even bother to shot back.

One thing we've been doing is actually trying to just do mech on mech fighting in our rounds because it is more fun (the massive long range PPC/ERLL/Gauss camping stuff isn't so much fun though)

No massive rushing, we just push slowly, get lots of combat in and win or lose, we don't really worry about it. We do try to complete the objective but fighting is more fun than just running round ignoring everything.

I wouldn't mind seeing more mech variety and more load out variety.

Edited by Bigbacon, 29 December 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Curley GumboKiller Bradley]

I would have more fun if the wait to get into a game was LESS THEN 30 Minutes. I am wasting my premium time in CW at this point.

[Monkey Lover]

Playing IS V IS is very fun to me. I see a nice mix of mechs. Killing timber after timber after timber isnt so much fun.

[Bigbacon]

Monkey Lover, on 29 December 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Playing IS V IS is very fun to me. I see a nice mix of mechs. Killing timber after timber after timber isnt so much fun.

this also....

[TripleEhBeef]

Monkey Lover, on 29 December 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Playing IS V IS is very fun to me. I see a nice mix of mechs. Killing timber after timber after timber isnt so much fun.

Hey, killing Timber Wolves is always fun!

Though with only a few clan mechs out for CBills, and half of them needing some TLC, I can see where you're coming from.