25 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

Since I’ve gotten a little break on work, I got a chance to play 20+ CW matches now, and I can properly write up something for issues I see aren’t fit. I’ve seen multiple feedback threads as well. By all means I do see that it is Beta and not everything is perfect just yet.

1) Range imbalance: Clanners do have a range advantage on Boreal and even on Sulfer partly. I think simply we need more cover per gate and some map editing here and there. Such a quick change will make the matches a bit more friendly and less downgrading.

2) Matchmaking: It feels that it needs to be here. Pug and 12 mans almost every other game… but that could just me and I do need to group up with others more often.

3) Rewards: They are lacking in the prospect that one should fight to get to the generators, not quite destroy the guards/turrets. Pugs need some persuasion to fight for objectives.

4) W/L rate of both factions: It’s not right when 80-100% attackers are winning for pretty much every planet I can see in my view. This may change in the future though with other fixes.

5) Comms: VOIP/Command Wheel is needed. I understand they are still WIP but it needs to be here as soon as possible.

6) Attacking vs Defending: We need some encouragement for attacking, maybe some advantages, etc. Many times I’ve seen not a single person attacking except me waiting in the que so I actually go play another game for a while and look every once in a while to check if I have a game.

7) Spawncamping: This actually happens pretty often when you drop out of your dropship for another wave and they’re already attacking 200 meters away. I’ve seen defending teams get lances of Dire Wolves to the spawns of the attackers. That’s a bit much, there should be some sort of defensive way the attackers have.

8) Zergs: Light rushing pretty much is solved if you prepare enough for it. For heavier rushes, I think we just need a bit of collision damage and that should be enough. I think though that CW shouldn’t be dependent on this kind of strategy.

9) Trials and the glitch: Fix the glitch of course, but I think we need some editing of trials (by PGI of course). For example, switch the Stalker’s XL engine to an STD engine, or switch the loadout completely. Another example for the Clans would be to switch the Warhawk’s LRM10 out for more DHS. Maybe even unlock mastery for the trials only or give preset modules, just so a newer player wouldn’t feel terrible when facing enemies out there with more set up mechs. Of course don’t make it so there is no purpose to buying a mech, but make it so there is more leeway for a newer player to play the game esp in CW.

I think these were my biggest gripes on balance in CW. I do have to apologize however, both forumwise and gamewise as some matches/posts I did do errors, like drinking, etc. Here are my attempts to stay cleaner on forums/game: Stop drinking, stop making references to real life as every time I do that everything turns wrongly. Some personal apologies, sorry to Marik, I did accidentally offend you guys yesterday with a post improperly generalizing the faction. Sorry to the FRR at some points in time as I did accidentally make a really bad post at one point (will not rebring that one up), and sorry for pissing off some teammates/enemies through drinking or late night gaming. I will try to be a little more considerate of you all in the community, as lately I’ve been attempting to play CW and losing supremely badly thus far (out of 20+ matches I’ve got like 5 80+ score literally so it’s a bit frustrating on my end). But it’s been fun and I hope to have some more awesome games in the future! Happy New Year to all, and wish PGI another great year next year!

And please do not derail this thread into attacking me again.

Edited by luxebo, 29 December 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[luxebo]

Forgot about trials --> new player experience. It is tough to get stuck with trials and starting off it's tough for trials (though some are not bad in any way).

[InspectorG]

1). Quirks mitigate the range difference. Thud 9S, Cicada C, Vindicator? LRM machinegun HBK and Treb.

2). Could be better but wasnt CW intended for 12mans?

3). Better rewards, yes.

4). I read from PGI that ghost drops only account for @3% wins??? A ratio system may be better?

5). Yes to the extreeeme. YES!!!

6). Faction lobby may help.

7). The new dropship lazers didnt fix this?

8). Zerg should always be viable but stoppable. Heavy DAKKA assaults camped at Omega in a firing line should stop most of it, ala B33f's vid.

9). Yes fix the glitch. Trials for CW should be (C) min/max loadouts with skills elited. Clansmen mech should be elited as well.

[Harathan]

Why do people think a command wheel would fix anything? Herding cats will still be herding cats.

[luxebo]

Harathan, on 29 December 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Why do people think a command wheel would fix anything? Herding cats will still be herding cats.

VOIP is the main thing, command wheel is a supplement. Then people can still do comms decent enough and mute all the people that don't want to listen.

InspectorG, on 29 December 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

1). Quirks mitigate the range difference. Thud 9S, Cicada C, Vindicator? LRM machinegun HBK and Treb.
2). Could be better but wasnt CW intended for 12mans?
3). Better rewards, yes.
4). I read from PGI that ghost drops only account for @3% wins??? A ratio system may be better?
5). Yes to the extreeeme. YES!!!
6). Faction lobby may help.
7). The new dropship lazers didnt fix this?
8). Zerg should always be viable but stoppable. Heavy DAKKA assaults camped at Omega in a firing line should stop most of it, ala B33f's vid.
9). Yes fix the glitch. Trials for CW should be (C) min/max loadouts with skills elited. Clansmen mech should be elited as well.

1) Yeah some range quirks did help but it doesn't feel enough (and depending only on the TDR-9S is a bit lame). LRMs don't beat the range on the lasers on Clan mechs. Vind/Cda I've really almost never seen those guys on the field (wish to more often but prob too hard to use for the norm). I think a simple fix of adding some cover here and there would do, esp Boreal.
2) Yes indeed it was supposedly 12 mans mostly, but the difference feels a bit harsh on the way it works. But with VOIP and command wheel then hopefully things even out and we may not need it!
4) Like I mean that Clanners win like 80-100% (the attacker rating). Which is either off since I do win a few here and there, or it means that the IS just sucks.
6) Yes, I agree on that. We keep saying stuff via forums but forums is slow to get out info.
7) No, we still get crapped on by Clan/IS staying there with lances of assaults and whatnot.
8) Yeah zergs should exist, but shouldn't be pretty much the only valid tactic.
9) Some aren't terrible, others are difficult to play in CW. I think they should do it to regular que too, makes newer players enjoy more by doing half decent (though some do do quite well!)

Edited by luxebo, 30 December 2014 - 12:13 AM.

[Xetelian]

We NEED VOIP.

[jackal40]

luxebo, on 29 December 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

3) Rewards: They are lacking in the prospect that one should fight to get to the generators, not quite destroy the guards/turrets. Pugs need some persuasion to fight for objectives.

This is the only item worth commenting on, the rest is just whine.

CW is for the 12-man groups, it's been said time and time again. Pugs are to fill out the odd imbalanced team.

I don't play CW as a PUG - the rewards and time are concurrent with my design to grind c-Bills. I will occasionally drop with my casual friends, when we want to kill time and read the internet.

Any other expectation is fallacious.

[Chuck Jager]

I'm fine with CW being for 12 man. They can sit there until another one comes along. This is not troll answer it is an issue in every online game. I have feeling that as more elements are added and tested there will be an imperfect mm put in place. I just hate the let them eat cake attitude I hear from many folks I imagine still wake up crying from dodgeball flashbacks (assuming they ever got picked for a team)

[luxebo]

jackal40, on 29 December 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

This is the only item worth commenting on, the rest is just whine.
CW is for the 12-man groups, it's been said time and time again. Pugs are to fill out the odd imbalanced team.
I don't play CW as a PUG - the rewards and time are concurrent with my design to grind c-Bills. I will occasionally drop with my casual friends, when we want to kill time and read the internet.
Any other expectation is fallacious.

So... you don't want VOIP and command wheel. And you don't want to give new players a better experience... Well then... (I personally think the rest needs to just flow better between Clan vs IS, but as I've said it's my feedback. Not anyone elses.)

But to the comment, I'd say that even 12 mans need that extra boost. It should be more rewarding and feel like being a boss after taking down Omega or even just gens/gates. Not directly only to pugs (this is an issue to those who just can't fill an entire 12 man crew, which happens every while.) Haven't you ever seen sandbagging pugs? Those that walk in and play like in skirmish? I know sometimes I feel hopeless too, but that's a bit off. This means that people are coming into CW and not shooting the gens like they were ordered to by the 6-11 man. If pugs were promoted to fighting for the objective then you as groups would benefit too. 12 mans would get extra pay simply for doing their job, like attackers getting cash for blowing gates/gens/assisting in and defenders getting through perfectly no scratches (no major maybe). Win win situation, I'm not saying switch money from kills.

Just to state an example, I've seen a 12 man (my side) and an 11 man with one suicide sandbagger. The 11 man was so close yet so far, and they lost as one guy kept running directly to us and dying instantly.

Chuck YeaGurr, on 29 December 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

I'm fine with CW being for 12 man. They can sit there until another one comes along. This is not troll answer it is an issue in every online game. I have feeling that as more elements are added and tested there will be an imperfect mm put in place. I just hate the let them eat cake attitude I hear from many folks I imagine still wake up crying from dodgeball flashbacks (assuming they ever got picked for a team)

Ok... let's just say I don't understand your post. I'm sorry, I tried reading over 2 times and couldn't decipher it. Repeat the paragraph into a simpler, more straightforward sentence. Do you mean you don't want Pugs to play CW and only 12 mans? If that's the case then there wouldn't be too many playing and other groups should be invited.

Edited by luxebo, 30 December 2014 - 12:11 AM.

[Krivvan]

Xetelian, on 29 December 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

We NEED VOIP.

VOIP doesn't help at all with herding pugs in other games. It normally just leads to players muting mics or filling the commcs with garbage. Command wheel/menu usually ends up a lot more effective.

[Tarmok II]

Krivvan, on 30 December 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

VOIP doesn't help at all with herding pugs in other games. It normally just leads to players muting mics or filling the commcs with garbage. Command wheel/menu usually ends up a lot more effective.

sad but our little bird friend here is right
pugs tend to not or missuse voip, filling it with garbadge or muting it and if it is used it is most used by guys from organiced groups droping solo and if they do this 80% of the pugs dont listen anyways

Edited by Tarmok II, 30 December 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[Caustic Canid]

Mostly in response to the VOIP/Command wheel comments.

This is just copy pasted from another thread that fell off the front page right away:

"Give company/Lance commanders better/easier ways to give simple commands. Allow them to place move/attack/defend points by hovering their reticule over a location, and give the command by pushing a button. Also allow commanders to have an "attack my target " command that places a highlighted square around the commanders current target that the Lance/team can see (only if the unit can be targeted), and assign extra points to players that follow these commands.

Example: Lance commander targets an atlas. Presses the "attack my target" key. His lancemates all see an orange reticle around the Atlas, regardless of what they have targeted. Anyone who shoots the Atlas while the orange reticle is highlighting it gets bonus points for teamwork.

Example2: commander is moving towards the gates, and wants his Lance to wait by the gate entrance, out of sight. He simply looks at the location he wants them to wait at, and presses the "defend/wait here" key. an icon appears on the mini map, as well as a visual way point that can be seen on the hud of his Lance. "

Obviously there could be small-medium c-bill bonuses for following commands, to entice pugs to follow orders.

also, there should be a separate "Damage to Objectives" column in the game summary screen, so people with low damage due to going after objectives don't get called worthless by the guy in the direwolf that barely made it past the gate.

Edited by Caustic Canid, 30 December 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[C4RNAGE]

VOIP only for commanders and lance commanders.(all pilots can hear but only commanders can speak up)

Not for all pilots will be chaos madness.

Edited by C4RNAGE, 30 December 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[Krivvan]

C4RNAGE, on 30 December 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

VOIP only for commanders and lance commanders.(all pilots can hear but only commanders can speak up)

Not for all pilots will be chaos madness.

How do you determine a company or lance commander beyond just the first person who clicks the button? And a random pug is likely to not follow what a random commander says.

The power of premades isn't the comms so much as the fact that you have a group of people that are willing to follow each other. A premade team with only text chat is still, for the most part, going to do better than an equivalently skilled pug team.

Edited by Krivvan, 30 December 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Podex]

luxebo, on 29 December 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Mucho stuff

Yep, pretty dead-on with most of this. The thing is that you can't trade blow for blow at range with a clan mech or you will lose. You have to move fast and frequently, ducking and weaving like a boxer.
Use IS strengths against clan weaknesses, because they are doing the same. <-- this is the basis of "____ is OP" just fill in the blank

VOIP is a great idea, but it's not moderated. Personally, I don't know if I can handle listening to someone sing Frozen songs all day long, and I'm sure it would happen frequently. TS really is the best idea right now.

Yes, group up. You'll do better, get less frustrated, and have a much better time. It took me a while to get used to working as a team in voice comms, but once you get it, you'll love it. As you may have seen, I've been working on getting people on the FRR TS server to work with y'all to keep 12 mans going.

I'm sorry about yesterday, too. I should have just "let it gooooooo. Let it gooooooooo". Are we good?

Oh, and hook me up in game. I'll drop with you.

Edited by Podex, 30 December 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Almond Brown]

I have been Pugging CW and don't see what is so hard about staying with your Teammates? Someone invariably asks over Chat "Plan?"

The plan is the same as always. Stay together. Press "R" a lot. And shoot the same Red squares as your mates, one after the other.

If that is done, then a "Push Left" (or any other) order is relatively easy to accomplished also. Attacking is tough, but if it wasn't, what would be the need for Defenders and thus the point of the Match really.

2 more Maps are inbound according to PGI. Maybe one of them will not be a "Gated Community"

[luxebo]

Podex, on 30 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Yep, pretty dead-on with most of this. The thing is that you can't trade blow for blow at range with a clan mech or you will lose. You have to move fast and frequently, ducking and weaving like a boxer.
Use IS strengths against clan weaknesses, because they are doing the same. <-- this is the basis of "____ is OP" just fill in the blank

VOIP is a great idea, but it's not moderated. Personally, I don't know if I can handle listening to someone sing Frozen songs all day long, and I'm sure it would happen frequently. TS really is the best idea right now.

Yes, group up. You'll do better, get less frustrated, and have a much better time. It took me a while to get used to working as a team in voice comms, but once you get it, you'll love it. As you may have seen, I've been working on getting people on the FRR TS server to work with y'all to keep 12 mans going.

I'm sorry about yesterday, too. I should have just "let it gooooooo. Let it gooooooooo". Are we good?

Oh, and hook me up in game. I'll drop with you.

Yeah VOIP would need some moderation (some mute commands, etc) and command wheel needs to be there in order to allow some supplement.

The range is just really a map design problem in my opinion (mostly Boreal) as it is really hard to do anything on that map without getting sniped from their gate to the dropzone even. A bit frustrating and any group more than a 4 man on Clan side is a tough tough game, most likely a crush without your own team of 6-12. (Though I found an insanely well communicated plan that would work but it is difficult to accomplish without a 10-12 man).

I do actually do some grouping (some small groups with personal friends and some gaming with 1st Hussars, Iron Serpents, etc and in fact yesterday I did some stuff with 1st Hussars vs 2323.)

We good. That wasn't really me to you specifically but the first twoish posts I felt that they were saying to ignore me completely. Could've been me interpreting the posts wrong.

Yeah if you and any other Mariks (I'll be honest that I've seen like 1 Marik faction tagged guy in IS vs Clans thus far) would like to join and chew these Clanners alive, then we can of course, just give a Ts3 address and password (through pm or similar). Looks like you and I will make a good team .

To the rest commenting on VOIP/command wheel, yeah that is my fear, that it would be an issue overall with muting and stuff. It will help but only if the pugs... don't be too much of that way. Even a bit ago I got stuck with these Davions and Steiners; the Davions started talking all over chat and kept talking of their little 12 year old private parts that only usually happens in CoD or GTA. Steiners told me to join a Ts3 server and kicks me instantly... So yeah even without VOIP it might be an issue.

[Podex]

Our TS server is private due to language restrictions (no profanity), but I know we've had groups on the FRR TS server a few times.

Sometimes you can distract, sometimes you can't. It is a crapshoot on both maps. Sometimes you just have to move as fast as you can, as a group, and try to survive. It's war and it doesn't always go the way you want. But again, the worst possible thing is to trade punches. They have the advantage there.

CW isn't PUG friendly, nor was it designed to be. It requires communication and coordination, and while PUGs can still pull off a win, it's much harder because there are 12 individuals there instead of a cohesive unit. I really doubt that VOIP would help too much...12 leaders, no followers.

Yeah, I'll try to get a 12 man together and drop with you. We may not win every match, but we'll have fun trying.

[C4RNAGE]

Krivvan, on 30 December 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

How do you determine a company or lance commander beyond just the first person who clicks the button? And a random pug is likely to not follow what a random commander says.

The power of premades isn't the comms so much as the fact that you have a group of people that are willing to follow each other. A premade team with only text chat is still, for the most part, going to do better than an equivalently skilled pug team.

Than give us different maybe better solution.

Hmm..?

And any information in your headset speaker will be more helpful than none if like 2 mute no problem for u.
If u personaly play 12 people group on ts this not concern's too You.

Edited by C4RNAGE, 31 December 2014 - 02:57 AM.

[Kell Commander]

I see a lot of people talking about how most PUGs either misuse or mute VOIP, I think this game would have a different effect though. I'm definitely guilty of muting everyone when I used to play Xbox live because I found 12 year olds using racial and homophobic slurs incredibly annoying. From what I've read here on the forums though I think this game's community is much older for the most part.

It's seemed like the average age of people I've talked to and played with is late 20s and early 30s. This does result in a higher than normal maturity level among players. Obviously age and maturity do not go hand n hand, known some very immature adults in my short time, but VOIP in this game has so many more benefits than drawbacks it needs to be included. If it's not a high priority right now, PGI is wrong in my opinion.