13 replies to this topic

[HurricaneZ]

So does the critical hit bonus of 7.25% add on to all three crit changes of 1x, 2x and the 3x? (unmodified change to crit of 25%, 14% and 3% for a total of 42%) or just the total crit chance?
so what that then be
(25+7.25) +(14 + 7.25) + (3+7.25) = 63.75%
OR simply
25 + 14 + 3 +7.25 = 49.25%
but where would the extra crit chance go to? the 1x, 2x or the 3x?
e.g. (25+7.25) + 14 + 3

I'm wondering how effective the targeting comp one is.

[Navid A1]

HurricaneZ, on 29 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

So does the critical hit bonus of 7.25% add on to all three crit changes of 1x, 2x and the 3x? (unmodified change to crit of 25%, 14% and 3% for a total of 42%) or just the total crit chance?
so what that then be
(25+7.25) +(14 + 7.25) + (3+7.25) = 63.75%
OR simply
25 + 14 + 3 +7.25 = 49.25%
but where would the extra crit chance go to? the 1x, 2x or the 3x?
e.g. (25+7.25) + 14 + 3

I'm wondering how effective the targeting comp one is.

are you sure you are doing this right?... I mean summing all the crit chances.

I think the TC adds to the total crit chance like %(25+tc) for 1x , %(14+tc) for 2x and %(3+tc) for 3x
Not sure why you are adding all the numbers up.

Edited by Navid A1, 29 December 2014 - 08:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

He's adding them up because that's how it works.

The regular "did I crit?" roll is basically:

D100:
1-3 - 3 crits
4-17 - 2 crits
18-42 - 1 crit
43-100 - no crits

As to the answer to his question, I don't know if the bonus is applied to each chance or spread between them.

[Brody319]

All percentage values are added. At least that is how I think they programmed it since that is how they handle every other percentage value.

[Navid A1]

Wintersdark, on 29 December 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

He's adding them up because that's how it works.

The regular "did I crit?" roll is basically:

D100:
1-3 - 3 crits
4-17 - 2 crits
18-42 - 1 crit
43-100 - no crits

As to the answer to his question, I don't know if the bonus is applied to each chance or spread between them.

thanks for the correction...
also, if we take MK.VII as an example, it has 25% crit chance increase. in order to stay below 100 it should not add to all three...but spread between them... i was wrong on both matters i guess.!

Edited by Navid A1, 29 December 2014 - 08:42 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Could go either way. If it adds to each, you'd have over 100% crit chance. This isn't a problem mathematically, it just means every hit to structure would generate a crit, pushing "no crit" right off the table.

Not to say I think that's what happens, though, just that it's still a possibility.

[HurricaneZ]

So let me list the possibilities with the level 1 targeting computer with 7.25% bonus crit.
either my theory of:
(25+7.25) + (14 + 7.25) + (3 + 7.25) where there is a +7.25 chance to all 1x, 2x and 3x crit or 63.75% total chance for crit.

or individually where the total crit would stil be 42+ 7.25 = 49.25% chance to crit based on of the following mystery calculations:
(25+7.25) + 14 + 3 where there is a 32.25% chance of a 1x crit
or
25 + (14 + 7.25) + 3 where there is a 21.25% chance of a 2x crit
or
25 + 14 + (3 + 7.25) where there is a 10.25% chance o 3x crit

All of these would still add up to 49.25%

But if my theory holds true, then a level 7 computer would provide a 12.5% bonus to all three types of crits (or 37.5%) bonus to the original 42% making the max total of 79.5% chance of critical hit.
Where did the 25% come from?

Edited by HurricaneZ, 01 January 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[Deathlike]

AFAIK, it adds the the 1st chance to get a crit (the 1st opportunity that is).

It has been determined for the most part the Targeting Computer level 1 is the optimal choice. The biggest gain is the initial crit bonus that allows (primarily) laservomit to do extra damage to a target which lowers TTK vs any mech that has their internals exposed. Everything else is a bonus (the effect of a Target Info Gathering module is a really nifty bonus over Clan Active Probe).

Edited by Deathlike, 01 January 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[wolf74]

You could be looking at it in the wrong equation 7.25% chance is off the Critical Base.

aka
1x = 25% (25 * 1.0725) = 26.81%
2x = 15% (15 * 1.0725) = 16.09%
3x = 3% (3 * 1.0725) = 3.22%

Base: 25 + 15 + 3 = 43%
Base + 7.25%: 26.81 + 16.09 + 3.22 = 46.12%
(Base+7.25%) - Base:46.12 - 43 = 3.12
Difference / Base: 3.12 /43 = 0.072558 or 7.2558%

Edited by wolf74, 02 January 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[HurricaneZ]

@ wolf74,
That would be terrible if you're correct.

@ deathlike
If it's just +7.25% to the 1x crit hit only, then than bonus isn't even enough to justify the ton or slot.
Right now I'm carrying SSRMs plus ammo. Lets say I sack a ton of ammo for the computer, then I'm sacking 200 total potential damage for a chance of critting 4 damage instead of 2 damage for the one missile that decides to crit an unarmored open component?
Second example,
I'm carrying 6 ML and 6 DHS, but I sack a DHS for the computer. The only benefit I have is of that ML hitting for 14 damage instead of seven, 32.25% instead of 25% of the time, but I'm going to over heat that little extra bit and shut down that extra bit so I'm a sitting duck for 3 seconds.. Also, that DHS I'm sacking would also be equal to firing one of my ML, 1.3 more times (well lets say 1 more time), so overall damage would be less,

.hmm, doesn't seem cost effective if its just a bonus to the 1x crit.

Edited by HurricaneZ, 02 January 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[Deathlike]

HurricaneZ, on 02 January 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

@ deathlike
If it's just +7.25% to the 1x crit hit only, then than bonus isn't even enough to justify the ton or slot.
Right now I'm carrying SSRMs plus ammo. Lets say I sack a ton of ammo for the computer, then I'm sacking 200 total potential damage for a chance of critting 4 damage instead of 2 damage for the one missile that decides to crit an unarmored open component?
Second example,
I'm carrying 6 ML and 6 DHS, but I sack a DHS for the computer. The only benefit I have is of that ML hitting for 14 damage instead of seven, 32.25% instead of 25% of the time, but I'm going to over heat that little extra bit and shut down that extra bit so I'm a sitting duck for 3 seconds.. Also, that DHS I'm sacking would also be equal to firing one of my ML, 1.3 more times (well lets say 1 more time), so overall damage would be less,

.hmm, doesn't seem cost effective if its just a bonus to the 1x crit.

It actually is worth it, but you'd have to understand the nature of crits, SPECIFIC to lasers.

Each laser in its firing duration does damage "per tick". Each tick is .1 seconds long. Every "tick" generates a crit. So, if you use 6 Clan Medium Pulse lasers, you will be generating about 9 ticks (.85 seconds duration) per laser.

If you "like MGs", then you'll understand how valuable this can be. You won't have the same bonuses as the MGs (MGs get a massive bonus damage application), but if your weapon simply touches an exposed part of a mech (the external armor is breached, so it's shooting directly into internals) it does an additional source of damage regardless of range.

For instance, if a ERPPC was fired at 1600m (close to the max range) and hit its target (just humor that for a moment, since that is difficult unless the target is DCed) AND that shot breaches the internal armor, it can do an additional 1.5 damage to the section that it hits when a crit is generated. 15% of the damage generated by crits to the components (like DHS or a med laser for example) is converted into actual damage to the structure (the section of which it is like, like a Hunchback-4P's energy hunch or right torso). So if you use lasers from max range on a target that lost its external armor in a section, you have a chance of doing quite a bit more damage despite being that far away, allowing you to finish or cripple a target off from long distance.

It kinda gets complicated on the math side, but ultimately, the Targeting Computer (just the 1st level) is a very useful bonus when used properly.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[The Wakelord]

I tend to feel, without maths, that when I start using more than 5 lasers the TG becomes more valid. I'm using a large number of weapons, so the increased crit chance, along with the mild range bonus, is a plus.

So even in my 12-laser, heat intensive Nova I always carry a TG1. I've toyed with the other TGs, but undecided on them.

[HurricaneZ]

Let me wrap my head around this.
If there is a chance of critting per tick and using a ML has 8.5 ticks total per laser duration, does it really matter if its 8.5 ticks or just 1 tick? Its just averaging out the damage for statistical calculations so there are more events per battle. Therefore the average damage would still be the same. The programmers are increasing the sample size, which makes statistical sense, but all it does is get a more accurate average per battle.
So instead of calculating 1000 ML firing events (which would be rare) they are calculating 85,000 ticks.

So then in damage per battle, lets say I fire a ML 100 times at multiple cored targets and assuming I'm hitting everything that's exposed only, there would still only be on average 25, 1x crits. for a average total damage of :
7 damage x 100 shots + (0.25 x 700) = 875 damage
Then with computer I, I would get a higher number:
7 x 100 + (0.3225 x 700) = 925.75 damage

This comes to (925-875) / 875 = 5.7% increase in damage

Now the following assumes that I'm only hitting exposed targets, which is a rare event (because most of my shots miss or are hitting armor) and the battle last so long that I never have to worry about heat.
Then if space and tonnage was not a factor and all the weapons slots were used, the a computer doesn't hurt by adding that crit chance.

But with SSRMs where ammo is a limiting factor, if I had a choice between 3 tons of ammo for total of 600 damage or
2 tons of ammo and a computer, that's 400 x .057 = 422 damage. then it doesn't justify the loss of ammo.
With LRMs then which allows for more ammo, with 10 tons ammo in a build (180/ton) = 1800 damage or
9 tons and computer (9 x 180 x 1.057) = 1712 damage, nope still doesn't add up.

Finally with the crit damage, if each internal component has 10 health, then a SSRM or LRM would then crit it for 2 x 2 or 1 x 2 damage respectively, which isn't going to blow it up by itself anyway. Even 3x damage wouldn't do it. Its like just a 7.25% increase in chance of an extra missile hitting it.

BUT as mentioned with LBX and MG, then the bonuses would be bigger? not sure how to calculate that, but any build using those weapons would probably be weight restricted and swapping a ton of ammo out for the computer wouldn't be good unless it has SO much ammo, that it couldn't possible use them all in battle.

Edited by HurricaneZ, 03 January 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Deathlike]

All I can say is... if you're using 4 or more lasers in general, the Targeting Computer is far more useful. It's likely to be less useful when you have 2 or so.