40 replies to this topic

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I know many posts regarding this topic are already made, but why even have the Flamer in game when it's not even viable anymore? This bad boy has been needing some loving for a while now, and it hasn't been getting any.
I don't know what's hard about changing a few numbers and doing some trail and error, but this equipment right here needs buffs.
The Flamer doesn't need a complete overhaul. doubling (or somewhere around double) the heat generated on the enemy Mech and keeping everything as it is would be a good start.
Maybe this way, we will actually see Firestarters running with flamers.

Firestarters using Flamers? what sorcery is this?

[Xetelian]

They give them out at gag gifts I think its safe to say they're aware of it but just don't care.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Yeah because the "Lords" and The b33f don't use them.

[Cyborne Elemental]

All that they need to do for a simple fix, is to remove the mechanic that causes self heat to multiply the longer you fire them.

That or at least reduce the cap on it, because you start off with very little heat, and end up with 4-6x (maybe even higher) heat after a short period.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Yeah! Changing the values of a few numbers here and there and some trial and error wouldn't hurt a bit.

[FETTY WAP]

I agree, this weapon is a bit silly..
Why bring something that essentially does more harm to your own mech than the enemy??

[Xetelian]

No ammo.

No cooldown (constant fire).

I can see why they're not balanced well already.

Damage

Negligible heat on enemy

Don't see why that can't be changed to do some more damage and still be negligible heat enemy heat wise.

Edited by Xetelian, 30 December 2014 - 11:15 PM.

[FupDup]

They're so sad right now.

[Ultimax]

At this point, Flamers should just be an energy variant of machine guns.


Make them do higher DPS, but at the cost of heat (unlike MGs which are heatless) and scrap the heat increase on enemy mechs because it's dumb, and hard to balance and prevents flamers from doing any kind of damage.

[Brody319]

1 DPS. 1 Heat per second. firing more than 6 at once results in 1 extra point of heat per second.
enemy mechs experience 1 heat per second if unarmored and 0.5 heat if armored.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Brody319, on 31 December 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

1 DPS. 1 Heat per second. firing more than 6 at once results in 1 extra point of heat per second.
enemy mechs experience 1 heat per second if unarmored and 0.5 heat if armored.

So assuming an enemy is using the same amount and type of heat sinks as your Mech and is just standing there doing nothing (fully armored), and you spat fire balls at him, that means the enemy Mech's heat level would be at 50 the moment you overheat? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[Manei Domini Krigg]

All that need is heat ganaration (for flamer user) make like machine gun.

[Bellum Dominum]

Xetelian, on 30 December 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

No ammo.

No cooldown (constant fire).

I can see why they're not balanced well already.

Damage

Negligible heat on enemy

Don't see why that can't be changed to do some more damage and still be negligible heat enemy heat wise.

#1 Flamers do damage::
I miss read your post when I started this response as reading 'no damage'. My bad. I think it's still a good video to demonstrate one way to use flamers on a mech to very solid effect. It's a trick that is well known in the community by now.

#2 Come with me to a private match some time and I'll show you how that negligible heat makes a difference. Altho I'm not exactly crazy about the current amount it does and that it won't put a mech over a certain amount. Maybe up that amount a couple of percentages.

#3 I started using the Flamer as nothing else than a way to blind Atlas's, or any other mech I'm fighting, and mess up their heat a tad in my Spider 5D along with a Lrg Pulse Laser. I still run that build from time to time but it's much harder to do today with the way bap works now and all the streaks.

#4 I'd much rather see them tweak the heat caused up (maybe just the rate of increase even if not up the top it'll go to) and heat dissipation effected on the mech using a flamer down some than add any more damage to them. I used them back at 60 range all the time and when I saw they got buffed I about $#!^ myself.

I can't really comment on if they are still solidly usable the way I used to use them today as I've not ran my lights, especially my Spider, very much lately. Embarrassed Drow is Embarrassed.

Edited by Death Drow, 31 December 2014 - 12:49 AM.

[kapusta11]

And what are you suggesting it to do? Build up heat on already hot energy mechs? There is no heat based ammo detonation either (no heat scale in MWO).

[Tincan Nightmare]

Make it fire a single shot like a PPC, with its own cooldown, but what it fires is a little fireball that hits the enemy mech and burns. Each hit increases the targeted mech's heat by a set amount for a set amount of time, possible with a maximum cap to the heat generated (so that teams of Firestarters don't stunlock mechs into helplessness) but more hits extending the time the fire burns. Kinda like a napalm gun that doesn't require ammo, very similar to the later Plasma weapons from further down the timeline (though they did require ammo).

[MikeBend]

Wonder if we should start a petition, to get them fixed. How hard can it be, upping damage a little, and nerfing self heat to reasonable levels?

Edit: I got it! I know why its in game in this state! Its here, so the Adder pilots could feel miserable!

Edited by MikeBend, 31 December 2014 - 12:48 AM.

[Bellum Dominum]

Single shot like PPC? Oh H*** no! Man I don't like posting vids of some of my tricks but I'm really tempted to make some after getting back in the swing of playing my Spider. You would be cutting out one of the best parts of the flamer to get rid of it's graphics effects.

kapusta11, on 31 December 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

And what are you suggesting it to do? Build up heat on already hot energy mechs? There is no heat based ammo detonation either (no heat scale in MWO).

Flamers can hit critical slots just like any other weapons. Unless this has been nerfed at some point and I missed those patch notes.

Edited by Death Drow, 31 December 2014 - 12:51 AM.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

kapusta11, on 31 December 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

And what are you suggesting it to do? Build up heat on already hot energy mechs? There is no heat based ammo detonation either (no heat scale in MWO).

Like I said, doubling the heat generated on the enemy Mech would be a start.
The range could also be buffed up to 150m? The damage can stay. I've almost killed a Battlemaster a couple of months ago in Frozen with my Nona-Flamer Hunchy. (His CT was red, and I was the only one doing damage on him)

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Death Drow, on 31 December 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

#1 Flamers do damage::
I miss read your post when I started this response as reading 'no damage'. My bad. I think it's still a good video to demonstrate one way to use flamers on a mech to very solid effect. It's a trick that is well known in the community by now.

#2 Come with me to a private match some time and I'll show you how that negligible heat makes a difference. Altho I'm not exactly crazy about the current amount it does and that it won't put a mech over a certain amount. Maybe up that amount a couple of percentages.

#3 I started using the Flamer as nothing else than a way to blind Atlas's, or any other mech I'm fighting, and mess up their heat a tad in my Spider 5D along with a Lrg Pulse Laser. I still run that build from time to time but it's much harder to do today with the way bap works now and all the streaks.

#4 I'd much rather see them tweak the heat caused up (maybe just the rate of increase even if not up the top it'll go to) and heat dissipation effected on the mech using a flamer down some than add any more damage to them. I used them back at 60 range all the time and when I saw they got buffed I about $#!^ myself.

I can't really comment on if they are still solidly usable the way I used to use them today as I've not ran my lights, especially my Spider, very much lately. Embarrassed Drow is Embarrassed.

I never knew the fire made by the Flamers were this pretty.
Not sure what you were testing there, but I notice that if you alpha strike multiple flamers, the time between where no heat is generated and where heat is generated is shorter compared to when using only one Flamer. There's shorter time the more Flamers you use.

[Bellum Dominum]

That's very true Shiroi and a part of why that trick with two flamers on chain fire works so well. Keeps a flamer on the enemy at all times while having little to no effect upon your own heat dissipation. I think you'd really enjoy some of my other 'tricks'

Oh and I originally made the video just last night after trying to help some people out on TS in regards to the flamer that was not going well. So I made the video to demonstrate what I was trying to say. Used it in this thread to show that flamers do do damage as well as to share the 'trick' with any newer players that might not be aware of it.

Edited by Death Drow, 31 December 2014 - 01:27 AM.