38 replies to this topic

[bobF]

I also PUG in CW, and have zero issues finding games, or leading born followers to victory, when I'm motivated and/or sober/high enough.

You post reads like yet another call to nerf Clans. Players over 30 have an even harder time accepting that they suck at video games despite hours of practice being bad, and under the heavy influence of Dunning-Kruger. This is what happens when you separate queues, because people are afraid to lose.

You get a minority group of players actually interested in improvement and total pvp domination, who don't mind a loss, and see it as a learning experience. Like-minded players band together, recognizing mutual competence, and pretty soon you have elite pvp squads. Meanwhile, the majority of players are left to practice sucking against other clueless mouthbreathers, once in a while taking a beating to the face from some ELO sorcery.

Now that CW has a (proper) open, all-comers PvP format, you people who practiced sucking for two years can't figure out why you can't gain even one victory. Therefore, it MUST be a game imbalance.

Nope.

It's your atrocious, clueless play. Premade IS beats Clan PUGs senseless, on any map, attack or defend. There are plenty of Clan pugs, we are filler units and players. I've dropped with an MS 11 man, and I've dropped with 9 players out of 12 having no unit tags.

There is no problem with CW in terms of player skill balancing, because that's something completely out of the developers hands. No developer will EVER make a good game that balances to the lowest common denominator, because those games suck. You guys want a better CW experience for yourselves and others? Acknowledge that YOU'RE BAD, need improvement, and STOP PUGGING. Your play experience will IMMEDIATELY improve.

TL;DR: git gud.

Edited by bobF, 01 January 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[crustydog]

manny082, on 01 January 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

one of the reasons why there are so few clan puggers is less choices, some pugs do not want to join with the main 4 clans, but still want to use clan mechs. Clans in both lore and in RL are also dispised in this community, there are past actions such as mechwarrior 4 that really made people dislike us. One of these examples is clan smoke jaguar who in lore nuked turtle bay and in RL it hurts recruitment chances.

Another could be stringant recruitment practices that said puggers do not want to undertake to be part of a clan, but there are some units that wave off that kind of process but arent well known or well liked >.> *stares at noesis*

Yes, and it this sort of thing I was, sort of, indirectly hearing about - something that perhaps the Clanners could undertake to make some internal "policy" changes -

Think of it as meeting the Lore - after much fighting, the Clanners needed reinforcements faster than the sibkos could provide - and the quality standards of sibko troops deemed acceptable for battle were greatly relaxed in the face of troop replacement needs.

If the Clans are mainly fielding Elite 12 man premades as their majority participation in CW, this alone is enough to bring on the nerf.

[Aethon]

The thing to remember is that the Clan players have been waiting for this a long time. They have been gathering together under their respective banners since long before Clans were implemented, as it was their only way to enjoy the company of like-minded players who loved the Clans. I believe this had an very strong impact on the level of organization experienced in the Clans.

That said, I am mostly either pugging, or dropping with one or two Clanmates. That said, when we get into the match and find a 6-man group, I immediately ask them if they would like to call the shots, if we are attacking. That adds a couple more to their group, as I usually hop into their TS channel. So, that 6-man just became an 8-man on TS. If a couple of the other pugs join in, it often jumps up to 10-11 players.

I do not see this often on the TS side, aside from the Combine players; I have often seen complete 12-man groups composed of two or more DCMS units, and I love seeing that, because it is always a good challenge, and victory is not actually a certainty.

Just my 2 C-Bills, of course.

Edited by Aethon, 01 January 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

crustydog, on 01 January 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

But are you going up against IS premades all day? every day?

Much more often that not, when I drop IS pug in CW, we end up against a Clan premade, and not a Clan pug team... so I am assuming the IS pugger is far more numerous than the Clan pugger. I do know there are plenty of Clan puggers.... just not enough at the moment, in my opinion.

Furthermore, if that is true across the game platform, then the results of this imbalance is being reflected in the planets taken in CW.

I don't know about the Clan pugs - but the IS pugs are having a very bad experience at the moment.

Bad - as in - Bad for the game's future.

And we don't want that....

It seems to have been a relatively even mix of IS puggers & premades. Some days you get more of one than the other. I haven't noticed a trend.

Maybe you were just unlucky in constantly getting drawn in bad match ups.

[Mystere]

crustydog, on 01 January 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

What is surprising is where are all of the Clan puggers? Sure the Clan premades are dominating, but the Clan puggers appear to be much fewer and farther between.

<steps out of the shadows>
Psst! Clan PUGs are helping to successfully attack planets. They are actually only PUGs in name.
<steps back into the shadows>

[Mr G]

BobF nailed it. the real issue isn't that clan mechs are Op, because they really aren't.

First issue is that people bring terrible mechs with dumb loadouts. It's not just limited to IS pugs either. Plenty of clanners bring stupid **** too. For the love of god stop bringing LRMS. Large lasers and other long range direct fire weapons are superior. they are more useful at all ranges, don't require locks, their damage can't be reduced by enemy equipment, and most importantly you aim them. you can choose where to place you damage which is really important. Legging enemy mechs is one of them most useful things you can do in CW.

Second is that many pugs players don't seem to realize what phase of the battle they are in. For your first mech bring long range direct fire weapons, ppcs, gauss, large lasers. This is the trading/ attrition phase. You want to rack up as much damage at range as possible. Play cautiously and deliberately. Don't just throw yourselves at objectives. it's a half hour game you've got time.

Once you've got a decent kill advantage then you can push up and be more aggressive, but don't just throw yourself at objectives. Unless you are part of a 12 man and are trying to win as quickly as possible; farm the enemy. Milk them for as much as they are worth. It'll give you more xp and cbills as well as give you better odds for victory.

[ztac]

Clan mechs OP ... wrong! go back and look at shiny new quirked mechs ... look at IS lights ..... look at IS LRM's ... look at IS again vs clan.

Clan players are better than IS players in general so you want to nerf the mechs? Ridiculous idea as the less able players will suffer (myself included , I know this :- when I am in an IS mech these days woe betide the clan mech that comes in my path.... ).

In most cases clan mechs are probably going to be pimped with mods .... because to buy a clan mech you usuall need a lot of C-Bills so said person is probably going to have them for mods too.

[Mystere]

Mystere, on 01 January 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

<steps out of the shadows>
Psst! Clan PUGs are helping to successfully attack planets. They are actually only PUGs in name.
<steps back into the shadows>

I take some of my words back. Some Falcons are still as timid as starfish and need to learn the value of aggression. Sigh!

Or clip their wings and talons.

Edited by Mystere, 01 January 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Chagatay]

Mr G, on 01 January 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

BobF nailed it. the real issue isn't that clan mechs are Op, because they really aren't.

First issue is that people bring terrible mechs with dumb loadouts. It's not just limited to IS pugs either. Plenty of clanners bring stupid **** too. For the love of god stop bringing LRMS. Large lasers and other long range direct fire weapons are superior. they are more useful at all ranges, don't require locks, their damage can't be reduced by enemy equipment, and most importantly you aim them. you can choose where to place you damage which is really important. Legging enemy mechs is one of them most useful things you can do in CW.

Second is that many pugs players don't seem to realize what phase of the battle they are in. For your first mech bring long range direct fire weapons, ppcs, gauss, large lasers. This is the trading/ attrition phase. You want to rack up as much damage at range as possible. Play cautiously and deliberately. Don't just throw yourselves at objectives. it's a half hour game you've got time.

Once you've got a decent kill advantage then you can push up and be more aggressive, but don't just throw yourself at objectives. Unless you are part of a 12 man and are trying to win as quickly as possible; farm the enemy. Milk them for as much as they are worth. It'll give you more xp and cbills as well as give you better odds for victory.

Defense of LRMs
I really don't get the hate for LRMs....they are good, very good. Bitching Betty and copious amounts of screenshake cause many of pilots to freak out and make big mistakes. Clan LRMs are very lightweight so don't bother with that artemis nonsense. Clan LRMs are low heat compared to the clan weapons of choice (see cERML and cLPL). Just see what an LRM boat can do to the generator.....That said don't "just" bring LRMs.

Rushing or Attrition
Both options are on the table. Both can work well or poorly depending on execution. Someone yelling "go" is terrible as it just results in a congo line to your quick demise, you need to use concrete instructions like:

- We go at XX:XX time with assaults, heavies infront etc.
- 8 Left, 4 Right Right goes first draws them, left mops the objectives up.
- All pick lights for first wave we will blitz them, etc

If you want c-bills, go to the other queues.....

Edited by Chagatay, 01 January 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[Chemie]

as long as the clans do not attack each other, they will keep rolling the IS...add in many IS players who refuse to play against clans for balance reasons, and you have a broken game mechanic. Not sure who you lose faster, the IS players for the stomps or the clanners for the boring games. Either way, not compelling.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Chemie, I don't see what Balance issues they are worried about when I have seen a Jenner take 4 CERPPCs to the face and still be standing but an Adder drops from a single IS Gauss to the face. Not to mention the extra heat that Clan Lasers gen beyond what they should based on the inspiration of this game. Does this mean I think that things need to be re-balanced? nope as nice as it would be it isn't necessary to do.

However I do think that instead of just refusing to fight against certain opponents is something that needs to be rethought because as long as people think that way then they will continue to be on the losing end without any hope of winning.

Moral of the post, Think positively even when things seem the worst and remember to carefully think through any balance suggestions you may have because overbalancing is a thing.

[Cygone]

I don't usually comment on these Clav Vs. IS Balance threads, because they are usually total bollocks with IS scrubs trying to define balance to fix their player skill.

However this thread is quite accurate, Less Clan PuGs and Higher ELO Average for the larger units = Clan face roll IS planets.

One fix would be to make the "trial" Mechs Meta Builds with all bells and whistles added, this will certainty help out the IS new players and the puggers alike.

[Yokaiko]

Cygone, on 01 January 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

One fix would be to make the "trial" Mechs Meta Builds with all bells and whistles added, this will certainty help out the IS new players and the puggers alike.

They can all be in perfect meta mechs and they will still suck, have you SEEN what goes on the IS side? Its all of the stupidity from pub matches writ large.

...real large.

[Cygone]

The amount of TDR-9Ss I see piloted by PuGs and Scrubs with (for example) 4xLL on it is absurd.

[R Razor]

ztac, on 01 January 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Clan mechs OP ... wrong! go back and look at shiny new quirked mechs ... look at IS lights ..... look at IS LRM's ... look at IS again vs clan.

Clan players are better than IS players in general

A fallacy supported by absolutely ZERO facts. You want to claim you're better and have a higher ELO but you don't know your ELO...........if anything it's the mechs you drive that artificially elevate your ELO to levels it wouldn't reach in an IS only game. But hey, keep preaching that noise, your clan brothers and even some IS clan lovers will support you I'm sure.

[Davers]

Clan players want everyone to think they are great pilots in nerfed mechs. IS players want everyone to think the Clanners are mediocre pilots in OP mechs. Both sides really want their opinion to be right.

The idea that 'Clan Units are just more organized than IS units' is a pretty bold statement. It's almost like they are wilfully ignorant of IS units that have been playing together for years under the various incarnations of Mechwarrior. I am sure some Clan units have a similar pedigree, but blanket statements like 'All Clan pilots are better than IS pilots and that is why we are winning planets' is not really adding much to the discussion.

[bobF]

Davers, on 01 January 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The idea that 'Clan Units are just more organized than IS units' is a pretty bold statement. It's almost like they are wilfully ignorant of IS units that have been playing together for years under the various incarnations of Mechwarrior.

You could have played video games since the first iteration of pong, and be the best mechwarrior in the galaxy. But if all you do is sit around and circle jerk on the Marik/Davion border, or bully Laio for EZ wins, then guess what? Clans are more organized than you are.

Edit: also wanted to defend Lurm Spam, but Chagatay covered it. Lurms are CW's premiere suppression fire weapon, imo. Not too shabby during a light rush defense either, if your situational awareness is on point and you have a swift mech.

Edited by bobF, 01 January 2015 - 05:38 PM.

[Davers]

bobF, on 01 January 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

You could have played video games since the first iteration of pong, and be the best mechwarrior in the galaxy. But if all you do is sit around and circle jerk on the Marik/Davion border, or bully Laio for EZ wins, then guess what? Clans are more organized than you are.

Well you sure have RPing the Clan's arrogance down pat.

[N0MAD]

bobF, on 01 January 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

I also PUG in CW, and have zero issues finding games, or leading born followers to victory, when I'm motivated and/or sober/high enough.
jibberish.........

TL;DR: git gud.

Grow up...