14 replies to this topic

[ackstorm]

So having played CW on both IS and Clan sides since the beta was released, I noticed these two patterns no matter which side I am on.

1. Teams that are unorganized/uncooperative on attack mode often times end up being spawn-killed by the end of the match. Even if there are multiple units on the attackers team, there seems to be a lot of reservation about working together. Often time in those matches its a split up of the people who want to go in and finish it, and the people who would rather snipe their way to the end. Sadly, if you can't get more than a lance to join a push, and that is almost never enough to take down 3 generators + omega.

While I am against the idea of spawn camping, often times the feels of the defending team in these situations is to get it over with. When the attackers are unwilling to come out even 15 minutes into the match, the defenders to get bored and end up doing the attacking instead. This can be really demoralizing for players on the attacking team.

2. When playing with large units who know how to win and cooperate to make it happen, dont just push in and win. They are so good at this that they can farm kills with confidence before finishing. I have actually seen more than one such unit be unhappy that I finished omega 'too early' because they wanted to farm more kills.

This game mode should not be about farming kills, and I feel there should be no reward for putting farming *before* capturing.

[Triordinant]

ackstorm, on 01 January 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

So having played CW on both IS and Clan sides since the beta was released, I noticed these two patterns no matter which side I am on.

1. Teams that are unorganized/uncooperative on attack mode often times end up being spawn-killed by the end of the match. Even if there are multiple units on the attackers team, there seems to be a lot of reservation about working together. Often time in those matches its a split up of the people who want to go in and finish it, and the people who would rather snipe their way to the end. Sadly, if you can't get more than a lance to join a push, and that is almost never enough to take down 3 generators + omega.

While I am against the idea of spawn camping, often times the feels of the defending team in these situations is to get it over with. When the attackers are unwilling to come out even 15 minutes into the match, the defenders to get bored and end up doing the attacking instead. This can be really demoralizing for players on the attacking team.

2. When playing with large units who know how to win and cooperate to make it happen, dont just push in and win. They are so good at this that they can farm kills with confidence before finishing. I have actually seen more than one such unit be unhappy that I finished omega 'too early' because they wanted to farm more kills.

This game mode should not be about farming kills, and I feel there should be no reward for putting farming *before* capturing.

You might want to wait until CW is no longer Beta before investing time and effort in it. In the meantime, feel free to propose any fixes that might improve it in this forum. Customer Support keeps telling me the Devs read forum posts.

[ackstorm]

Triordinant, on 01 January 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

You might want to wait until CW is no longer Beta before investing time and effort in it. In the meantime, feel free to propose any fixes that might improve it in this forum. Customer Support keeps telling me the Devs read forum posts.

My goal is stir up conversation about it with the community, and hopefully for PGI to read it and talk about it in future CW development updates so we know if they are aware of and are working to fix it. (and by fix it, I mean reduce it to an acceptable level. This community seems pretty hell bent on farming no matter what they do.)

Edited by ackstorm, 01 January 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

ackstorm, on 01 January 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

So having played CW on both IS and Clan sides since the beta was released, I noticed these two patterns no matter which side I am on.

<snip>

2. When playing with large units who know how to win and cooperate to make it happen, dont just push in and win. They are so good at this that they can farm kills with confidence before finishing. I have actually seen more than one such unit be unhappy that I finished omega 'too early' because they wanted to farm more kills.

This game mode should not be about farming kills, and I feel there should be no reward for putting farming *before* capturing.

The problem is that there are *no* rewards for killing omega outside of getting the win condition. All your match score is based on damage and destruction of enemy mechs, so rushing in an killing omega gets you less of everything - C-bills, XP, and loyalty points than having 1 or 2 waves that are specifically to take out enemies to actually get your rewards and match score.

I've been on a successful attack as a light rusher that was over in less than 5 minutes. My Match score was *12* and my payout was pitiful to the point of being nearly pointless - and this was a WIN. The objective doesn't reward anything outside of meeting the win conditions, so to get rewards requires actually fighting the enemy.
But If they change the omega reward to something that is a time based countdown, or related to the number of enemies left, or your remaining mechs in your drop deck, it only further promotes the light rush as the best tactic. There really needs to be additional/alternate objectives for the attackers to both encourage combat and create new strategy and tactics other than the rush and provide good rewards for a win.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 01 January 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[InspectorG]

HAHAHA

A 1million Cbill bounty on Omega.

[ackstorm]

Agreed, each generator and omega itself should have significant rewards.

[Coolant]

ackstorm, on 01 January 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

So having played CW on both IS and Clan sides since the beta was released, I noticed these two patterns no matter which side I am on.

1. Teams that are unorganized/uncooperative on attack mode often times end up being spawn-killed by the end of the match. Even if there are multiple units on the attackers team, there seems to be a lot of reservation about working together. Often time in those matches its a split up of the people who want to go in and finish it, and the people who would rather snipe their way to the end. Sadly, if you can't get more than a lance to join a push, and that is almost never enough to take down 3 generators + omega.

While I am against the idea of spawn camping, often times the feels of the defending team in these situations is to get it over with. When the attackers are unwilling to come out even 15 minutes into the match, the defenders to get bored and end up doing the attacking instead. This can be really demoralizing for players on the attacking team.

2. When playing with large units who know how to win and cooperate to make it happen, dont just push in and win. They are so good at this that they can farm kills with confidence before finishing. I have actually seen more than one such unit be unhappy that I finished omega 'too early' because they wanted to farm more kills.

This game mode should not be about farming kills, and I feel there should be no reward for putting farming *before* capturing.

This probably should've been posted in the Community Warfare section, but I agree with OP to a degree. The Dropship farming needs to stopped - especially standing under the Dropship where you can't get hit. That's an exploit, and I'm a firm believer that exploits = cheating. Make it instant death if a Dropship lands on you. Make the Attackers Dropships do a lot more damage too. Make it hurt for enemy units to rush Attackers spawn. I once followed my team out to the Attacker Dropship area just because I wanted to see how much damage I would take from the Dropships. I was fully healthy in a Heavy mech and took a total of 10% damage from 3 Dropships. Not enough....

Edited by Coolant, 01 January 2015 - 05:52 PM.

[Dauphni]

EgoSlayer, on 01 January 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

The problem is that there are *no* rewards for killing omega outside of getting the win condition. All your match score is based on damage and destruction of enemy mechs, so rushing in an killing omega gets you less of everything - C-bills, XP, and loyalty points than having 1 or 2 waves that are specifically to take out enemies to actually get your rewards and match score.

The rewards are redrawing the map, and for that quicker wins also means more wins, which is good because there is limited time before each daily cease-fire. If that doesn't appeal to you, you should probably stay out of CW. If all you want are c-bills and xp, you're still better off doing a couple public drops for the time it would have taken you to do one Invasion game, considering the wait times plus match length.

[Willard Phule]

Uite Dauphni, on 01 January 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

The rewards are redrawing the map, and for that quicker wins also means more wins, which is good because there is limited time before each daily cease-fire. If that doesn't appeal to you, you should probably stay out of CW. If all you want are c-bills and xp, you're still better off doing a couple public drops for the time it would have taken you to do one Invasion game, considering the wait times plus match length.

Depending on who you are and how you play, I guess.

I mean, on the one hand....I'd much rather do consecutive drops in CW than in the solo queue. But how much of that is because I occasionally end up with a good team in CW as opposed to never in the solo queue? I don't know.

But, ultimately, for me it comes down to the c-bills. On the one end of the spectrum, I do MUCH better in CW than I do in 4 drops in the solo queue. On the other end of the spectrum, I barely pay for the consumables.

Still, I'd much rather play CW than derp around in the broken solo queue. It's never going to be fixed.

[Dauphni]

I earn MUCH more in public drops. A decent estimate for regular pugging is about one million c-bills earned per hour. On the other hand, even an exceptional CW match doesn't earn me more than half a million, and I get on average one drop every 45 minutes. So yeah, quite a significant difference.

Of course, if all you want to do is play the game and enjoy the challenge, that's all moot.

[Willard Phule]

Uite Dauphni, on 01 January 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

I earn MUCH more in public drops. A decent estimate for regular pugging is about one million c-bills earned per hour. On the other hand, even an exceptional CW match doesn't earn me more than half a million, and I get on average one drop every 45 minutes. So yeah, quite a significant difference.

Of course, if all you want to do is play the game and enjoy the challenge, that's all moot.

Ok?

On average, for a win, I've been seeing in the 750-850k range. For a loss....hard to tell, I just hope to pay for the consumables. I tend to have premium time going, and one of my 'mechs is an Invasion Timber Wolf. Maybe that makes a significant difference.

In the solo queue, though, I tend to get a win about one out of every eight or nine matches. On a loss, I tend to get from 120-150k. On the rare win, that can get up to around 250. Either way, I make far more in CW. And, let's face, it...that's the whole point for a mercenary.

[EgoSlayer]

Uite Dauphni, on 01 January 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

The rewards are redrawing the map, and for that quicker wins also means more wins, which is good because there is limited time before each daily cease-fire. If that doesn't appeal to you, you should probably stay out of CW. If all you want are c-bills and xp, you're still better off doing a couple public drops for the time it would have taken you to do one Invasion game, considering the wait times plus match length.

And the only place you get loyalty points is CW. Also, for the contests the minimum match score required is *80* so my points still hold true. Yes, you can earn more playing public assault/skirmish/conquest, but that isn't CW and there still needs to be some rewards for playing CW more than just flipping a map tile, since currently that means absolutely nothing in game rewards/prestige.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 01 January 2015 - 06:54 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Solo CW earns less cbills than solo pug per hr. If you invest into a 30min match and lose, which will happen chancing a game solo, earnings drop pretty bad. If you factor in consumables as well. Yeah stick to regular queue.

Team CW if you are a 12 man, get short waits, and crush the enemy fast nets pretty big bucks though.

Also prem time and a hero TBR double your CW purse. there is no maybe about it being significant. You will only get 500k on a win if you kill 10 mechs otherwise.

Edited by Ghogiel, 01 January 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

see, thats going to become interresting:

Why would i want to finish the enemy within 10 mins by doing a base rush if i could have a long match where you fight alot and kill alot stuff and + have alot fun?i usually have to wait 10+ mins every freaking time to find a cw match. it just doesnt makes sence to me. I want to have fun and not go for goals like in assault mode ´s base rushe´s

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 01 January 2015 - 07:33 PM.

[That Dawg]

I got my 25 wins for the wonderous give aways, and have. not. been. back.