8 replies to this topic

[destroika]

The issue: Team mates walking into friendly line of fire and what can be done about it?

Generally, a good team tactic is to stick together and form a "death ball" with the idea being to focus fire one enemy down at a time. In a "ball" formation, not everyone has line of sight and those that are taking damage in the front are trying wiggle, move, and get behind cover. It's also a good general tactic to spread out the damage to all team members. As the enemy's location is being reveled, other team members are moving about trying to find an angle and sometimes fall under fire in the process. You might find a situation where you have the upper hand popping out and hitting and ducking before taking damage which is good for your team, but it requires moving a lot, in and out of someone else's line of fire.

So how does one move about in this situation? Inevitable, into someone's line of fire. It seems more often today than most days that there is justification to just kill the team member who got in your way as it's their fault, they should know they got in the way and they're being stupid and a stupid team mate that is blocking allied fire from hitting the enemy is now hurting the team, therefore it is better for them to die.

In extreme cases, yes, but they are very far and few between, not 3 out of 5 games... It's also not friendly to new pilots which hurts the community and game developers.

It's one thing to accidentally hit a team mate resulting in their death, but completely another to justify it. If you find yourself justifying it, you will notice it happens a lot. If you realize it's an accident and make an effort to avoid team damage at all costs, you'll find it is very rare.

[Suggestion] It would help if the user interface wasn't so clunky and designed as an after thought. Perhaps if mechs had rear view mirrors, or a monitor in the cockpit displaying a backup camera, or if the minimap in the cockpit could be zoomed out. There is also a large problem with false line of sight in general in this game and if developers paid some attention to this area, it would also shine light on all line of sight issues including friendly fire. It would also help people prioritize and justify differently if there were friendly fire penalties.

Successful MMO's require a delicate balance of both fixing existing problems as well as designing new content to keep players interested. If too many problems hinder the player's interest, new content won't be as appealing. On that point, the design of River City Night feels more like I'm fighting the interface than actually challenging my battle skill and tactics. Until false line of sight is corrected, please refrain from night battles.

Fighting with the interface will also increase friendly fire issues as it is a line of sight issue.

Edited by destroika, 01 January 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[Deathlike]

TBH, I think that problem stems a lot more from NOT understanding the triangles on the radar interface.

The triangle with the "sharp nose" shows where a mech's FEET is angled. So if that mech is driving forward, the triangle tends to move in that direction.

The other part of the problem is that people don't always recognize where their teammates are.... especially if they wander off on their own. The more blue/green triangles near you, the better off you are when it comes to teammates supporting you.

Of course, the map part of the interface could be better, as sometimes it isn't accurate (particularly in the CW maps where defining borders and such aren't always correct or enforced). When you play a map long enough, you'll "figure out" over time what that location is relative to everything else.

Anyways, team damage tends to stem from people not paying attention to the triangles on their radar.

[destroika]

Yes, the minimap is the best source of information to knowing firing angles but I find it disorienting and difficult to look at my mini map whilst a barrage of LRMS, A/C's and magnitude 10.0 screen shake. I tend to be more concerned in the moment on the enemy's line of fire on me as opposed to my team mates'. In those moments, I have to trust that they are mature and competent enough to not shoot me in my back. I've been behind team mates moving into my line of fire from similar situations and if I've activated a laser already, I will aim it down at the ground or up in the air to avoid the team damage.

[Suggestion] Automatic laser shut off when allies enter line of fire.

[Deathlike]

What you may want is some sort of "torso" alignment indicator in the triangles. In essence.. you want to know where your teammates are looking with their torso twisted in a certain direction.

So if PGI ever figures this out... they would have to a smaller triangle within the bigger triangle would show where the mech's torso is facing. For instance, you would be able to see a Hunchback or Griffin move in one direction but torso twist looking in the complete opposite direction.

I can't draw worth much, but if you had an imagination, it would ideally work the way I described it.

This would be the "best way" of showing movement vs torso twist in this game IMO...

Edited by Deathlike, 01 January 2015 - 03:08 PM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I don't think we need anything past situational awareness. I don't cross line of fire unless I have to and its the lesser choice. Mistakes aside as I do that too.

The issue seems for me to be players who intentionally do it. Either kill stealing or just so aggressive and single minded they don't care. I swing off when I can but am careful to because to many times I swung off only to take the full brunt of return fire before I could come back. Cross me once I come off. Make a habit of it and I am key down. Lites get a special exemption from that for reasons that are clear.

The HUD already causes to many FPS issues so it should stay put.

[The Wakelord]

Deathlike, on 01 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

TBH, I think that problem stems a lot more from NOT understanding the triangles on the radar interface.

The triangle with the "sharp nose" shows where a mech's FEET is angled. So if that mech is driving forward, the triangle tends to move in that direction.

The other part of the problem is that people don't always recognize where their teammates are.... especially if they wander off on their own. The more blue/green triangles near you, the better off you are when it comes to teammates supporting you.

Of course, the map part of the interface could be better, as sometimes it isn't accurate (particularly in the CW maps where defining borders and such aren't always correct or enforced). When you play a map long enough, you'll "figure out" over time what that location is relative to everything else.

Anyways, team damage tends to stem from people not paying attention to the triangles on their radar.

I think you've missed the point. I think the OP is referring to friendly fire when the friendly mech is <100m (very close), not when they are a splodge in the distance.

This creates 2 issues:
1) Friends blocking your Line of Sight (LOS). Whether they are ducking in/out of cover or they just want to fire, sometimes allies block your LOS. Often you don't shoot, or veer your laser wildly out of their way so you don't hurt them.

2) When mechs are that close, where your weapon is sitting really matters. eg: On my nova I could have a target perfectly lined up with clear firing lines (from centre camera), but as I fire I hit a spider I can't even see.

Why? Because I have a fat arm and a low arm, so I can't trace where my weapon is to where the enemy is (as opposed to classic FPS where the soldier has the gun stuck to their chin / over their shoulder).

[ShinVector]

There a few pilots (especially assault mech pilots) give no effort to avoiding team damage.

I recalled one time I got legged in a light and limping about trying to what I could try contribute into the fight when suddenly laser and AC fire ripped through my other leg and back.
Kind obvious from the death screen that the friendly assault mech pilot made no effort adjust his aim.
When I told him off about it... His responds was.. "I should not be standing in front of an assault mech."
The pissed me off quite a bit... The arrogance, does he think light mechs have rear view cameras or something ?
*Hunted him down specifically every match after that if I found him on the enemy team.

Anyway.. Pilots who shoot through team mates to get their kills should be ashamed.
A simple way to show these pilots that they suck is display Team Damage along with Damage on the end score board.

Edited by ShinVector, 01 January 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Every time I've ever dealt FF is when a teamate flies across my screen in front of me.

I'll have a target lined up, be firing, and out of nowhere sombody will just dart right into the path.

That or I come around a blind corner to see a teamate and an enemy lined up, most of the time I don't shoot until I can see who is who, but with both of their triangles lined up its hard to tell and sometimes.

Two good rules to abide by are.
#1. If a teamate is in front of you, just don't shoot.

#2. Know your mech's hardpoints, when you're in close and think you have a clear shot, remember where your arms are, quite often your aim may look clear but your arms might be stuck directly behind a teamate.

#3. Set weapon groups per arm, then if you do get stuck behind a teamate you can still fire around him using only the left/right arm weapons at a time.

#4. Don't crowd your teamates, just give eachother some room to work, and if you see him backing up, either walk around him, or move with him, don't just stand there like an idiot and block him for the hell of it.

Edited by Mister D, 01 January 2015 - 05:05 PM.

[Deathlike]

The Wakelord, on 01 January 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

I think you've missed the point. I think the OP is referring to friendly fire when the friendly mech is <100m (very close), not when they are a splodge in the distance.

Part of that is two fold. If you're trying to fire and then escape from fire WHILE people are behind you, you'll have to take some responsibility in taking back damage. It's the nature of the beast. The other side is the people firing behind the player's LOS. In some ways, it's the front player's fault for blocking their LOS... so towards the end of the match FF tends to happen just to get one mech (occasionally a DCed target) and there's always this one person trying to steal the kill for himself. It happens a lot, so there is SOME selfish play at work.

Quote

This creates 2 issues:
1) Friends blocking your Line of Sight (LOS). Whether they are ducking in/out of cover or they just want to fire, sometimes allies block your LOS. Often you don't shoot, or veer your laser wildly out of their way so you don't hurt them.

Again, part of that is positioning (on your teammate AND you). It happens as it is, so you may be better off being a bit more conservative or position yourself in a way to account for teammates blocking your LOS such as using hard cover (your teammate cannot position themselves there to get a firing line, unless they plan on blocking your exit/reversing route).

Quote

2) When mechs are that close, where your weapon is sitting really matters. eg: On my nova I could have a target perfectly lined up with clear firing lines (from centre camera), but as I fire I hit a spider I can't even see.

Why? Because I have a fat arm and a low arm, so I can't trace where my weapon is to where the enemy is (as opposed to classic FPS where the soldier has the gun stuck to their chin / over their shoulder).

The trick to that is to NEVER be directly behind a teammate when you fire. The thing about arm articulation is that the firing points are often LOW, thus you need little to no obstacles in front of you (terrain or teammate) before firing. This includes weapons like LRMs, particularly Clan LRMs where you honestly need some space for the LRMs to properly arch over stuff to get to its destination. This is partly about learning about your mech than it is a teammate problem.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 January 2015 - 05:12 PM.