37 replies to this topic

[Tom Sawyer]

Wolfiac, on 02 January 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

The last thing this game needs is in game voip for pug drops. That is just ridiculous. In addition to all the useless information that you now have typed, you will get all the chatter that comes with feeling you've been abused and used by someone. Ragin' every game. No way around it in pug matches.

And if you think you are going to "command" pugs in a drop where everyone of them has a better strategy than you, well, good luck with that.

True VoIP would allow command channels and the ability to squelch those in the drop. Yes this could be abused but it would allow some power to drown out the spammer who just wants to sing karaoke. Each lance could have its own chat frequency. So you would have command chat, lance chat, and team chat. Heck there could be global chat that you could even talk to the other team instead of rapid typing. Again there WILL be those that just want to heckle and be a holes but for the most part it would VASTLY improve the game.

Might even be able to issue challenges of 1v1 on the clan honor.

It can help a pug to be a better player esp the ones who want to learn and are willing to listen.

[Willard Phule]

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Speak for yourself.

You're part of a team if you help the team. If you listen to commands, or make an effort to keep your team informed about what's going on.

You, sir, have an advantage over the rest of us. We don't speak 25 languages so we can "listen to commands" or "keep the team informed." Communication, being the primary building block of "teamwork" seems to be our downfall.

Perhaps you should start a thread that gives us common phrases in all 25 languages you speak. Then we can just copy/paste the communications into chat.

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Facts remain, this mode needs voip. It really does. there's too much going on, too fast to key in responses or waste time telling people stuff. games will improve immensely if you can communicate with pugs or teams more effectively.

Again, you have the rest of us at a disadvantage with the sheer number of languages you speak. If I were on a "team" using VOIP and they were all speaking German, I'd be at a complete loss.

I really think you need to put up some kind of translation matrix for us. You could be the most valuable contributor to the game in over a year.

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Often, leaders will not ask what they have available, they won't command well, they won't communicate. They'll throw away resources. It's not just PUG's that are problematic, it's also leadership and an unwillingness on both sides to compromise or change up tactics.

Huh. I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

My experience of PUG drops, where noone is in the same unit and only a couple have a common language, tends to be one of "everyone group up here, stand still, zoom in and wait for red triangles"....only to be facerolled because noone has a clue what anyone else is doing.

It's that whole communication thing again.

But that'll all be better once we get that translation thing up and running.

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Morale of troops is important. If you have units questioning you or your orders, you're going to lose.

If anyone bothers to "give orders" in the first place. And, even then, if the mission objective requires your "team" to do anything other than stand around and fire LRMs, odds are your plan is too complicated anyway.

[Basilisk222]

Willard Phule, on 02 January 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

You, sir, have an advantage over the rest of us. We don't speak 25 languages so we can "listen to commands" or "keep the team informed." Communication, being the primary building block of "teamwork" seems to be our downfall.

Perhaps you should start a thread that gives us common phrases in all 25 languages you speak. Then we can just copy/paste the communications into chat.



Again, you have the rest of us at a disadvantage with the sheer number of languages you speak. If I were on a "team" using VOIP and they were all speaking German, I'd be at a complete loss.

I really think you need to put up some kind of translation matrix for us. You could be the most valuable contributor to the game in over a year.



Huh. I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

My experience of PUG drops, where noone is in the same unit and only a couple have a common language, tends to be one of "everyone group up here, stand still, zoom in and wait for red triangles"....only to be facerolled because noone has a clue what anyone else is doing.

It's that whole communication thing again.

But that'll all be better once we get that translation thing up and running.



If anyone bothers to "give orders" in the first place. And, even then, if the mission objective requires your "team" to do anything other than stand around and fire LRMs, odds are your plan is too complicated anyway.

Cute.

But we're in agreement that communication is the problem at least.

Obviously the languages thing is an issue. and one I didn't think too much about, I've actually played one German Match, but that's it. I kind of get that EU is going to be a bit of an issue. EU is going have many more languages in your up hours than we do in the US. French,Spanish and English mostly. I did take spanish in High school so I can sort of read it. That concludes my linguistic talent.

I'm not sure how you can fix thing entirely, but My main disagrement was with pug's not acting with a team. They can engage in teamwork. There's that whole communication thing.

So maybe we work towards seeing how much communication problems we can fix before we blame EVERYTHING on random solo-ers.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 02 January 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[Basilisk222]

Wolfiac, on 02 January 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

The last thing this game needs is in game voip for pug drops. That is just ridiculous. In addition to all the useless information that you now have typed, you will get all the chatter that comes with feeling you've been abused and used by someone. Ragin' every game. No way around it in pug matches.

And if you think you are going to "command" pugs in a drop where everyone of them has a better strategy than you, well, good luck with that.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Mute buttons are required. The feature could be turned off.

The option *HAS* to be available to people who want it.

So much in this game doesn't get communicated because ballistic fire is hitting your cockpit CT ST and arms, and you're sort of using WASD at that moment trying to not die.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 02 January 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

Cute.

But we're in agreement that communication is the problem at least.

Obviously the languages thing is an issue. and one I didn't think too much about, I've actually played one German Match, but that's it. I kind of get that EU is going to be a bit of an issue. EU is going have many more languages in your up hours than we do in the US. French,Spanish and English mostly. I did take spanish in High school so I can sort of read it. That concludes my linguistic talent.

I'm not sure how you can fix thing entirely, but My main disagrement was with pug's not acting with a team. They can engage in teamwork. There's that whole communication thing.

So maybe we work towards seeing how much communication problems we can fix before we blame EVERYTHING on random solo-ers.

On the one hand, having a "command wheel" communications function....like in Counter Strike...that speaks YOUR language sounds like it would be a great idea.

Unfortunately, that idea has been stomped down by the VOIP people far too many times.

It hardly matters. As long as we all keep shoveling money at PGI, they don't have to feel compelled to do anything.

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I disagree wholeheartedly.

Mute buttons are required. The feature could be turned off.

The option *HAS* to be available to people who want it.

So much in this game doesn't get communicated because ballistic fire is hitting your cockpit CT ST and arms, and you're sort of using WASD at that moment.

No no no no. You're missing the point.

We want VOIP....not because it would help gameplay and foster communication (if you happen to speak the same language)...it allows us to play Miley Cyrus over everyone's comms ....and it allows us to learn profanity in new languages so you can insult people from half a world away.

[Basilisk222]

Willard Phule, on 02 January 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

On the one hand, having a "command wheel" communications function....like in Counter Strike...that speaks YOUR language sounds like it would be a great idea.

Unfortunately, that idea has been stomped down by the VOIP people far too many times.

It hardly matters. As long as we all keep shoveling money at PGI, they don't have to feel compelled to do anything.



No no no no. You're missing the point.

We want VOIP....not because it would help gameplay and foster communication (if you happen to speak the same language)...it allows us to play Miley Cyrus over everyone's comms ....and it allows us to learn profanity in new languages so you can insult people from half a world away.

Also, given the miley cyrus etc stuff. PTT would likely need to be implemented.

Is there a reason we can't have the wheel and voip? I mean I'd love either option. But Honestly the wheel would help the language barrier, and might be easier to inject into the UI. it seems a lot more realistic to ask for.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 02 January 2015 - 08:29 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Every time the whole concept of a "command wheel" gets brought up, the VOIP brigade stomps it down.

Frankly, I doubt if either will happen before this game goes **** up, but we'll see. Until then, we get to type gibberish at each other and then get upset because noone followed the plan. Even if they didn't understand it.

[Kell Commander]

Only having 2 maps with the same set objectives only allows for a small amount of viable tactics for either side. Really 2 for attacker (heavy deathball break turrets and light zerg rush) and 1 for defender (hit their legs then mop up after). This creates game play that gets stale very fast. Some very good units are able to add another 1 or 2 ideas to either side, but that still leaves a very predictable pattern.

Biggest problem I see anyway.

[Tumbling Dice]

Tom Sawyer, on 02 January 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

True VoIP would allow command channels and the ability to squelch those in the drop. Yes this could be abused but it would allow some power to drown out the spammer who just wants to sing karaoke.

Agreed, but.........Command is obtained by the first one to take it. So, the first one to load the match screen "earns" the right to take command? Based on his system and connection? Not his skill or leadership qualities? Call me pessimistic if you will, but I see major problems with in game voip. But, I guess it would be worth a shot. Did I just say that?

[Ian G]

Almond Brown, on 02 January 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

Interesting point. So how is having in-game Comms going to fix the underlined bit? Really? If what you typed is true, most of the time, someone commanding and speaking, say, German isn't going help others, unless of course, they also speak German. Mixed PUG games will be a real blast when 6 different languages are present. I sure hope they add a MUTE button.

Actually, perhaps they should leave the ability to MUTE out. Just to prove a point... OMG that would be so hilarious...

CW is 3 weeks old. 2 of those weeks were over the Christmas and New Year holiday. There is 2 Maps. 2 more promised. Comms promised. The "Magic Wand of Make it All Today" was broken 2.5 years ago.

Complaining about being impatient is very OP.



Pretty sure ANYONE can play CW. When did you get denied the ability to play? Send in a Ticket.

Kilgorin Strom, on 02 January 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

Cute.

But we're in agreement that communication is the problem at least.

Obviously the languages thing is an issue. and one I didn't think too much about, I've actually played one German Match, but that's it. I kind of get that EU is going to be a bit of an issue. EU is going have many more languages in your up hours than we do in the US. French,Spanish and English mostly. I did take spanish in High school so I can sort of read it. That concludes my linguistic talent.

I'm not sure how you can fix thing entirely, but My main disagrement was with pug's not acting with a team. They can engage in teamwork. There's that whole communication thing.

So maybe we work towards seeing how much communication problems we can fix before we blame EVERYTHING on random solo-ers.

Sorry little 'muricans, but we european players want VOIP. And we will make good use of, because we get education and not a lame excuse of high school education. I myself am german and speak english fluently and more than peu mots de francais.

So i'm lacking education in arabic, slavic and scandinavian languages, but fortunatly most of those people speak english. So give us VOIP ingame, don't worry about language barriers. We can deal with it.

[Highlighting the important part of the quote]

Edited by Ian G, 02 January 2015 - 02:15 PM.

[Davers]

There should have been a Command Wheel ages ago. Just like there should have been improvements to the Battle Map. As for VOIP, everyone can enable C3, but no one ever does. That doesn't sound like a community crying out to have VOIP.

[MechaBattler]

This is how PGI does things. They put things out piece meal. Working through the problems as they go.

This is barebones CW. But if they stick to their guns and not deviate into stupid things like 3rd person view. Then we'll see CW become something much more.

So thank you for your feedback and keep giving it. But don't be surprised if they keep doing things this way.

[Conduitx]

Problem: Versus organized groups CW requires a level of coordination that 9/10 pugs will never achieve.
Solution: PGI needs to add in-game VOIP communication or separate solo/unit queues.

Otherwise CW will continue to be a boring pugstomp no matter what faction your on.

Edited by Conduitx, 02 January 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[Zibmo]

Ian G, on 02 January 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

Sorry little 'muricans, but we european players want VOIP. And we will make good use of, because we get education and not a lame excuse of high school education. I myself am german and speak english fluently and more than peu mots de francais.

So i'm lacking education in arabic, slavic and scandinavian languages, but fortunatly most of those people speak english. So give us VOIP ingame, don't worry about language barriers. We can deal with it.

[Highlighting the important part of the quote]

Poor euroweenie. Only a few languages. I myself, being a poorly instructed 'murican (as you so quaintly put it) am fluent in French, Portuguese and Spanish, know a bit of Russian, am fair at Croatian (hrvatski) and my milk tongue is German as my Mother was Austrian.

Apparently you can never see the sunshine because your provincial kopf is up your provincial posterior.

Edited by Zibmo, 02 January 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Tom Sawyer, on 02 January 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

True VoIP would allow command channels and the ability to squelch those in the drop. Yes this could be abused but it would allow some power to drown out the spammer who just wants to sing karaoke. Each lance could have its own chat frequency. So you would have command chat, lance chat, and team chat. Heck there could be global chat that you could even talk to the other team instead of rapid typing. Again there WILL be those that just want to heckle and be a holes but for the most part it would VASTLY improve the game.

Might even be able to issue challenges of 1v1 on the clan honor.

It can help a pug to be a better player esp the ones who want to learn and are willing to listen.

In order for any of the above to work there would be some sort of actual CoC. That will not happen in PUG encounters. You will have Wolf+Jaguar+Bear grouped together, or it will be Kurita/Steiner/Davion/Marik... Heck, even if it it was setup specific Clan (Wolf) or specific House (Kurita) it would still be chaos, especially with VOIP.

The Command Wheel and a redesign of the actual chat display. That actually really should come first, or at the same time that in-game VOIP is added and can be selected by each player. Then the willingness of people to step up to provide direction.

Now if the drops were more House/Clan centric, it could make it easier for someone or two to step forward to provide direction.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

MechaBattler, on 02 January 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

This is how PGI does things. They put things out piece meal. Working through the problems as they go.

This is barebones CW. But if they stick to their guns and not deviate into stupid things like 3rd person view. Then we'll see CW become something much more.

So thank you for your feedback and keep giving it. But don't be surprised if they keep doing things this way.

Yeah,thats true hopefully.The core game has become imo very enjoyable till today.Keeps me playing and playing and playing...
I hope CW will also get a part of this game which is immersive and entertaining, that they keep improving it.
But to make it to the vision Bryan Ekkman made visible for the audience on his presentation in early 2014
(or was it 2013 oO?) it has to be developed for some months full of work i guess.

The problem i think is that CW needs to be played of many players massively that pgi gives priority to its continuing
developement as good and fast as possible.But how it looks now it wont suck in many people or keep them playing
for long before returning to random matches.

But it makes sense what you say,in the end it allways was good work that they have had done.

[Lily from animove]

Bigbacon, on 01 January 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

People keep dropping the "Its a beta" thing but really....do you expect it to drastically change? It really seems like they tossed it out in "Beta" as a ditch effort to get people back to playing. It was promised for so long they had to do it but it doesn't seem well thought out.

It has lots of problems and the community split between the hard core groups and the pugs is quite big.

Biggest mistake PGI made was calling it "hard core mode" and I think that alone has misdirected what it is supposed to be.

VOIP is important, half the CW features are not done.

But by bringing the maps and the mode to the live servers, PGI can still get the first statistics, and we can find bugs and give feedback.

Thats why it was called beta, becasue they know its undone and that player behavior will create issues that hey have to work out. But the palyer behavior caused issues cna only be defind by letting people play, which is what we have now.

[oldradagast]

Lily from animove, on 09 January 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

VOIP is important, half the CW features are not done.

But by bringing the maps and the mode to the live servers, PGI can still get the first statistics, and we can find bugs and give feedback.

Thats why it was called beta, becasue they know its undone and that player behavior will create issues that hey have to work out. But the palyer behavior caused issues cna only be defind by letting people play, which is what we have now.

Eh... Beta or not, there's no excuse for the following:

- Horrible map design
- Lame, repetitive game play
- One-sided battles (defender has a huge edge since no sane attacker would even launch an attack under the current CW conditions)
- Non-existent matchmaker pairing PUG's against 12-mans.
- Ghost drops, fixed cease-fire times that alienate anyone outside of key time zones, and horrible wait times.

If PGI has been paying any attention since the game launched, none of the above would have happened. How is it 2 years in, we end up with a new "game mode" that looks as if they've learned nothing over the past 2 years and which would have quite frankly been an embarrassment had it been used for the game's closed Beta launch?

Meanwhile, all we've gotten so far from PGI is:
- Making life harder for the attacker by adding generators... thus basically anything less than a 12-man attacking team will now score auto-losses against remotely decent defenders.
- A plan to nerf the Thud because apparently the IS was winning matches and could compete with Clan ranges and damage in 1 mech.

None of the above offers any indication that PGI has any understanding of the actual problems with CW.