1123 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

[Redcated]

I've yet to see why dealing 1200 damage is a good thing. Unless you are fighting a team of 12 direwolves who frontloaded everything you should never need to deal that much damage.

I think 1200 damage games are just the games where people were drunk and couldn't aim. You aren't doing better because you are stripping the enemy one peice at a time, you are just wasting people's time. Core them and move on.

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 07:02 AM.
moderated quote

[Brody319]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Yea PPCs are way to slow...wait...what...oh...I've just been informed the 9S has a 15% PPC velocity quirk...uh let me do some math...okay yea, I'm seeing that these ERPPCs can fly faster than an AC5 round...uh..

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 07:01 AM.
Moderated Quote

[Tarl Cabot]

Flaming oblivion, on 02 January 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

A clanner doesn't want the IS to use one of the few set ups that can beat clans

Shocking,

But it does not beat the clans when talking about only one mech with a specific setup. A ERPPC/PPC hit, especially on Boreal, is about the only way to get a defending clanner off of the hill top that gives that clanner a LOS to IS attackers attempting to shoot the generators. That is only one mech moved while there are 3-4 others still there, firing at that T-bolt.

So far, at least for myself, 1 out of 5 CW IS vs Clan, are the clans a PUG setup. For Clan vs IS, would most of you say that Clans have more unit-centric drops (6-10) than IS drops?

But pug or no pug, they are all bringing the same mechs. And of those mechs most are carrying 5-8 weapons and usually symmetric setup. Take a side torso (Clan XL) and they are still carrying half of their payload. A single T-Bolt with 3 ERPPC loses a side torso, reducing side mech from 3 weapons to either 1 or 2 weapons.

And as noted elsewhere, it is only really good at long range. Get into brawling range and it is toast. And if a player has more than one T-bolt/3ERPPC mastered, he had to have 4-6 T-bolts total to simply Elite/Master them.

But really, one on one, a 75-ton Timberwolf vs a T-bolt 3ERPPC, piloted by similarly skilled players, who would win out most of the time?

Back to the CW. The defending Clan unit can even negate the T-bolt but not even waiting but jumping/climbing over the gates and engaging the incoming IS mechs. Clan mechs are, technically more durable, faster, longer range in general, generalist as another had noted, whereas most IS mechs are really specialist, and quirks enhance that view. They are also slowing, carrying a smaller payload, fewer weapons and using anything that allows a speed increase makes that mech less durable (IS XL Engines) and takes up more space (XL Engines, heatsinks, Endo/Ferro, other components).

Atm for IS ERPPC, esp with quirks and ERLasers w/quirks (add Gauss Rifle) are about the only weapons that give enough range to touch Clans, whereas for Clans they also have the above plus ERMLasers and CLRMS. I did not include IS LRMS due to higher percentage of ECM mechs clans bring.

I wish we could do flipflop with the Clans and have them use IS mechs for a week and the IS use Clan mechs for a week and see how that goes.

The merc units that do change contracts between Clans and IS and back should identify themselves and note their views. One of the primary differences though will be that they likely run more or less as a unit most of the time than as pugs.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Comparing a TW to a thunderbolt is nonsensical. Thunderbolts are 10 tons lighter and based upon mass spam to insta kill targets based on pinpoint damage. The timberwolf is still the best mech in the game as an all arounder; that is not what is being discussed. Likewise there is no need to flip roles etc etc. Many people have played both IS and Clan and know that clans give a range advantage on boreal; the map needs a rework regardless for both sides.

PPC spam has always damaged the game as the way to counter it is incredibly dull. Rework the map, give IS some laser range perks, and nerf the Thunderbolt PPC spam.

We'll see what happens this Tuesday as I see no way they will let this type of ppc play continue; unfortunately you guys are largely going to be a victim of your own success.

[Slater01]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Thunderbolts with ERPPCS only.

There is little to no varience in builds now. Its all ERPPCs on thunderbolts.

I would like to see a change to thunderbolts.This "Meta" is not enjoyable especially in PUG matches.


You have said you didnt want players boating long range weapons especially PPCs yet this is what players are currently doing. AGAIN

Double heat quircks are far to powerful.


In CW the problem is even worse with most cordinated groups only droping thunderboltz.

I also see more Awsome Q's daily with 4 ppc builds.

The Flavour and the Essence of Mechwarrior is to balance various weapon systems. One dimensional will not last in this game. I think the Devs were doing a little "science" with some builds - especially the Thunderbolts. Which looked as if they made OP on purpose to see if anything can or could counter the Clan Laser spews.

[Navid A1]

Slater01, on 03 January 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

The Flavour and the Essence of Mechwarrior is to balance various weapon systems. One dimensional will not last in this game. I think the Devs were doing a little "science" with some builds - especially the Thunderbolts. Which looked as if they made OP on purpose to see if anything can or could counter the Clan Laser spews.

I think the devs forgot what brought us the ghost heat in the first place. The right way to it was to give the quirks to the mech components, not the entire chassis
By giving the quirk to the entire chassis, you will force only the most effective boating build.
I think the mindset behind this was that, "hey TDR has an ERPPC in the arm... so it should be efficient using it". But they forgot that it also has 5 more E slots in torsos at a near perfect peeking positions. And players can actually customize their mechs.

[Koniks]

KuroNyra, on 03 January 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

And nobody saying exactly what make the TBW "OP", contrary to the ER PPC quirkcs who are clearly pointed out.

It's been pointed out quite frequently.

A broken jump jet animation.

A near perfect combination of speed, agility, and pod space because of having Clan Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrous, a near perfect engine size, Clan weapon weights, and being at the top of the Heavy class.

Clan XL engine durability.

Good hitboxes.

In the current meta, it has the most effective laser vomit loadout that's as versatile as the poptart meta used to be. But it also has just about the most flexible hardpoint options which allow it to fit whatever the meta or need is while still bringing a large alpha.


The only real drawbacks are that it's not as heat efficient as IS mechs, lacks some of their customization options, and is less tonnage efficient than the TDR with CW's weight limits. But those barely make a dent in its effectiveness.

Edited by Mizeur, 03 January 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

[Redacted]

First off, I'm not whining; just comparing. Quite literally I feel that the IS needs more perks that help them overall, not overpower just one or two mechs.

[Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 06:52 AM.
Moderated Quote

[InspectorG]

Conreg, on 02 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

This thread. Lol.

Here's an idea. Put your smug clan faces down behind some cover instead of standing around eating ppc shots. Ppcs take skill to hit a moving target at long range. Try moving. Or just sit back with your streak boats...

Oh. And I run 2 Erppc, 3 mlas.

Hey ! i use that build. *high-five*

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MechWarrior5152251, on 03 January 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

[Redacted]

The same way you just did. Again, read it so I won't have to report you next time.

I don't like to do that either but this nasty name calling is very inappropriate.

Try some civility and growing up, it will help your arguments.

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 06:55 AM.
Moderated Quote

[KuroNyra]

Mizeur, on 03 January 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

It's been pointed out quite frequently.

A broken jump jet animation.

A near perfect combination of speed, agility, and pod space because of having Clan Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrous, a near perfect engine size, Clan weapon weights, and being at the top of the Heavy class.

Clan XL engine durability.

Good hitboxes.

In the current meta, it has the most effective laser vomit loadout that's as versatile as the poptart meta used to be. But it also has just about the most flexible hardpoint options which allow it to fit whatever the meta or need is while still bringing a large alpha.


The only real drawback is that it's not as heat efficient as IS mechs, lacks some of their customization options, and is less tonnage efficient than the TDR with CW's weight limits. But those barely make a dent in its effectiveness.

Animation: In what it's different from the animation of the others? It's not like the jump jet animation of each mech was pretty much awful.


Perfect combination: Can't blame the enginees for creating a guy who was good in the 3 base of a good warfare machine. It would be blaming a Catapult for being a support mech, or an Atlas for being a slow mech. If guys are to blame that to get points... They'd better uninstall the game.

Clan XL: It's basicly one of there only advantage (and disadvantage at the same time since you can't change your engine size), yet people want to remove that. What a joke.

Good Hitbox: My Timber Wolf strongly disagree with you. Each time I lose a Side Torso (happen pretty much all the time.) I lost half my firepower at minimum while still being hot has hell.
And when I lose the second one... Adios.

The Heat is just awful on this mech. You overheat too easyly. And the same goes for most of the other clans mech.
I can't change the type of armor, the size of the engine.
And Clans mech are litteraly forced to use some populr build in order to be effective because they can carry good firepower. But overheat eachtime they shoot if they are not careful.
And the possibility of creating good loadout on the paper but fail on the pratice are countless.

MechWarrior5152251, on 03 January 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

[Redacted]

The same way you did.
But you seem to be at the same intelligence level with him... I wonder why.

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 06:55 AM.
Moderated Quote

[InspectorG]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

You've gone Full ReTtard. I have never seen a t-bolt even break 1200 damage in a match. Yet clammers like you think its OP? Do you have any evidence whatsoever?

To be honest, 1200 damage with few kills is quite inefficient.

If the 'average' Thud 9S user was getting 3 kills per @300 damage, that sh*t is lethal...and good aim.

MY OPINION:

Is and Clan are fairly balanced.

Thud 9S is likely to receive a nerf, lightly i hope. Perhaps firing rate on those ERPPC to reinforce range fighting as opposed to lose brawling. Would give it a role and give the ThunderWub its place in close quarter brawls.

I would say, exterend weapon cooldown, so it cant be spammed. Keep the heat buffs. DONT buff ml/ other energy.
This way Thud 9s keeps its power at range but loses heat efficiency at close range.

Something like that if the overall idea is:
Clan = generalist
IS = specialist

[InspectorG]

El Bandito, on 03 January 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Way too much leg armor. Instead of stripping from the arms, strip more from the legs.

For a Sniper mech that usually shows it's upper torsi, this is better. 18 DHS!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...307cd772db9273c

You REALLY dont wanna strip leg armor in CW. Regular drops, sure.

[KuroNyra]

MechWarrior5152251, on 03 January 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Ok I will retract the worm comment. How does his name violate TOS?

But it really is amazing how much you whine about a mech that can at most put out a 30pt alpha. Your one of those types that goes around reporting anyone who swears in chat? They really should put in the TOS that MWO will bow to any whinner who is willing to cry loud enough to be too annoying to ignore.

You should not even have put the worm comment in the first place.
Not sur about his nickname. But here's the meaning
http://en.wikipedia....piracy_theories

[Augustus Martelus II]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

You've gone Full ReTtard. I have never seen a t-bolt even break 1200 damage in a match. Yet clammers like you think its OP? Do you have any evidence whatsoever?

Well ppc boating rarelly break the 1200 dmg....but will do components lost.

A good srm brawler or an ac5 mech can easily break that

[InspectorG]

Brody319, on 03 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Here is a thought experiment for you. If we gave the Summoner the 9S's quirks. Would you call it overpowered?

^This PLZ PLZ PLZPLZ PLZPL ZPLZPLZ PLZ

PPPLLLEEEZZZZ

PGI REED THIS^

Save our Summoners!!!

[Gyrok]

Brody319, on 03 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Here is a thought experiment for you. If we gave the Summoner the 9S's quirks. Would you call it overpowered?

Yes, it would be...

The Summoner would now become the best clan heavy by a good margin with those quirks.

As much as the summoner needs something...that is too much.

[LordBraxton]

because comparing a summoner to an unquirked thunderbolt makes any sense

maybe if thuds came with clan xls.

[Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 06:53 AM.
Unconstructive

[Koniks]

KuroNyra, on 03 January 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

Animation: In what it's different from the animation of the others? It's not like the jump jet animation of each mech was pretty much awful.


Perfect combination: Can't blame the enginees for creating a guy who was good in the 3 base of a good warfare machine. It would be blaming a Catapult for being a support mech, or an Atlas for being a slow mech. If guys are to blame that to get points... They'd better uninstall the game.

Clan XL: It's basicly one of there only advantage (and disadvantage at the same time since you can't change your engine size), yet people want to remove that. What a joke.

Good Hitbox: My Timber Wolf strongly disagree with you. Each time I lose a Side Torso (happen pretty much all the time.) I lost half my firepower at minimum while still being hot has hell.
And when I lose the second one... Adios.

The Heat is just awful on this mech. You overheat too easyly. And the same goes for most of the other clans mech.
I can't change the type of armor, the size of the engine.
And Clans mech are litteraly forced to use some populr build in order to be effective because they can carry good firepower. But overheat eachtime they shoot if they are not careful.
And the possibility of creating good loadout on the paper but fail on the pratice are countless.

JJ animation: if you just tap the jump jet key without holding it down, the TBR gets about 5-10 meters of height without using any fuel. That causes shots to miss with no downside beside taking 1 or 2 tons of jump jets. It doesn't affect heat dissipation that way that a normal jump does. It also breaks the hitboxes so some hits don't register. Victors and Firestarters also have this problem. It's not as evident with other jumping mechs.

For everything else, you're missing the point. It's a near-flawless design for any role in a way no other mech is. It has almost no liabilities. All of the mechs you cited have significant drawbacks and counters. Would you really want to play a game that was just 12 TBRs vs 12 TBRs? Or even 48v48 in CW?

The Clan XL is an advantage but not a gamebreaking one on its own. It doesn't make the Summoner, Nova, or clan lights overpowered. But it's a force multiplier that makes the rest of the TBR's advantages exponentially better.

It allows you to escape and continue deal some damage. With an IS XL you'd just be dead. The TBR hitboxes allow you to spread damage more effectively than most other builds. The Victor's comparable. Its side torsos cut in leaving a gap between the arms and the legs. For comparison, the Summoners and Thunderbolts have barn walls for torsos. The Catapult is a giant CT with Mickey Mouse ears. The TBR can ditch the ears.

I already said it can overheat. But you get 2 52 point alphas before you have to cooldown. That's 1.5 legs or a torso.

It has other effective builds, too.

And I pointed out the other, small deficiencies. But they hardly make a dent in its effectiveness.

Edited by Mizeur, 03 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Get rid of the Radar Deprivation module, its the only thing keeping these players going.
Why?

The only weapon that keeps snipers and/or poptarts in their place, is sadly enough, LRM's.

And when LRM retaliation/pinning can be completely shutdown thanks to the module, there is nothing pinning or slowing down these PPFLD guys from dominating every single game.

I don't like LRM's, in fact I hate them, and not because they're garbage, its because when used effectively, they can completely shutdown a rush and lockdown areas.

But you guys just keep on imagining that somehow the slow Thunderbolts are OP, and that there couldn't possibly be another root of all evil behind it all.