1123 replies to this topic

[Mott]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

I was stunned that they would give the Normally NON jumping Timber Wolf to every Clan when IIRC the S Was a Falcon specific Pod?

It wasn't even a falcon-specific "pod". It was a single customization done for Pryde. One mech in the entire universe had it...

[Widowmaker1981]

Mott, on 07 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

It wasn't even a falcon-specific "pod". It was a single customization done for Pryde. One mech in the entire universe had it...

Well, thats wrong... see how these 2 things are not the same?

• Alt. Config. S A highly maneuverable urban combat configuration of the Timber Wolf, the S mounts five jump jets, allowing it to jump up to one hundred and fifty meters. To offset the inaccuracy from using jump jets, the S configuration is armed with a Large Pulse Laser backed up by two Medium Pulse Lasers. The S configuration also carries four SRM-6 launchers and two Machine Guns, making it a deadly close combat fighter. BV (1.0) = 2,229^[3][16], BV (2.0) = 2,462^[2][17]
  • Pryde A non-standard alternate configuration of the Timber Wolf, this configuration was famously used by Star Colonel Aidan Pryde. The primary long range weapons are a pair of ER Large Lasers which are backed up by a pair of LRM-20s for long range combat. For close combat, two ER Medium Lasers are carried as well as an ER Small Laser. The Pryde Configuration also mounts four jump jets making it highly maneuverable. BV (1.0) = 2,624 BV (2.0) = 2,900^[20]

[Mott]

Widowmaker1981, on 07 January 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Well, thats wrong... see how these 2 things are not the same?

• Alt. Config. S A highly maneuverable urban combat configuration of the Timber Wolf, the S mounts five jump jets, allowing it to jump up to one hundred and fifty meters. To offset the inaccuracy from using jump jets, the S configuration is armed with a Large Pulse Laser backed up by two Medium Pulse Lasers. The S configuration also carries four SRM-6 launchers and two Machine Guns, making it a deadly close combat fighter. BV (1.0) = 2,229^[3][16], BV (2.0) = 2,462^[2][17]
  
  • Pryde A non-standard alternate configuration of the Timber Wolf, this configuration was famously used by Star Colonel Aidan Pryde. The primary long range weapons are a pair of ER Large Lasers which are backed up by a pair of LRM-20s for long range combat. For close combat, two ER Medium Lasers are carried as well as an ER Small Laser. The Pryde Configuration also mounts four jump jets making it highly maneuverable. BV (1.0) = 2,624 BV (2.0) = 2,900^[20]

Guess i really have to get into TT and not rely solely on the novels for my BT info. Bleh.

Canadians don't play BT TT!

[Widowmaker1981]

Mott, on 07 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Guess i really have to get into TT and not rely solely on the novels for my BT info. Bleh.

Canadians don't play BT TT!

i havent played TT for 20 years and i was 13 at the time.. i did love it though, but my brother who i played with moved to new mexico. I do however have the ability to visit www.sarna.net

edit: i live in london, its a bit of a trek

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 07 January 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Mizeur, on 07 January 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

A WHK could take 2xERPPC+Gauss with a TC6. Projectile speed is almost the same as the 9S. The switch to PPFLD instead of hitscan, plus the larger alpha, means going significantly over the 5SS' optimal range before the WHK's losing trades.

Do you have any idea how badly a mech firing 2 ERPPCs overheats with 20 DHS? (when it doesnt have quirks, which in fairness i think the warhawk is goig to get. probably not major, because it doesnt need major quirks, but something like -10% - 15% ERPPC heat and projectile speed wouldn't be far wrong.) its also short on ammo, for CW it would be better with 24 DHS, 2 C-ERPPC, Gauss +50 rounds and TC1 (its by far the most tonnage efficient TC, i only use larger when crit slot limited), in standard games probably drop 2 tons of ammo for more 2 heatsinks.

Also with CW directly penalising tonnage now, an 85 ton mech should outperform, not almost equal a 65 ton mech, otherwise why ever take anything except mechs in the 55-75 ton range? The same should go for the Awesome too - if the Thunderbolt is a far better ERPPC mech AND is 15 tons lighter, why on earth would you EVER take an Awesome? That is wrong, the Awesome should absolutely outperform the TDR and, considering its got far worse geometry, it either needs some fricking god level quirks (hi there power creep) or the TDR does need toning down a tad...

As i said though, i dont say that as reason to nerfhammer the TDR. Personally id say reduce the heat on the TDR to 20/20 (minor tweak, not nerfhammer) and quirk the warhawk as i said, or something similar.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 07 January 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[EvilCow]

Widowmaker1981, on 07 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

You mean the same strongest units who were eating the IS before.

Its almost as if the battles and planet ownership were being decided by group skills and not tech base.........

Wild concept...

[Joseph Mallan]

Mott, on 07 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Guess i really have to get into TT and not rely solely on the novels for my BT info. Bleh.

Canadians don't play BT TT!

Scuse me? One of Canada's favorite CBT Imports is a player/Commando named SKUMM. Heck of a nice guy, pain in the ash to play against.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 January 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mott, on 07 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Guess i really have to get into TT and not rely solely on the novels for my BT info. Bleh.

Canadians don't play BT TT!

You could just buy TROs...

[Mott]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Scuse me? One of Canada's favorite CBT Imports is a player/Commando named SKUMM. Heck of a nice guy, pain in the ash to play against.

It was just a clever ruse to smoke out some TT playing Canadians so i can get some TT action for myself. Always wanted to try it out.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mott, on 07 January 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

It was just a clever ruse to smoke out some TT playing Canadians so i can get some TT action for myself. Always wanted to try it out.

Look up Catalyst Agents They are the NEW Commandos for CBT. Likely have one near you.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 January 2015 - 10:15 AM.

[Koniks]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 January 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

To Me OP is a Point that every and any player including the absolute worst player can be equal to the best player in the game. To date I have not faced or employed a Mech that fits that definition.

I don't think that's a good way to evaluate. That approach has too many variables.

You want player skill to the be the constant and mech quality to be the variable.

A mech is OP if a player can use it to beat another player of equal skill in almost any other mech under almost any conditions. We can expand it further to say that a mech is OP if the range of counters available is too narrow.

This was the case for jumpsnipers before the nerfs, SRM fix, and addition of the Clans.

[Koniks]

Widowmaker1981, on 07 January 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Do you have any idea how badly a mech firing 2 ERPPCs overheats with 20 DHS?

It has a heat threshold of 96 and dissipation of 4.89/sec. 30 heat isn't killing its DPS.

Edited by Mizeur, 07 January 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[Helbrecht]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 02 January 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

so if Clanner go with TBR,TBR,SCR,MLX full of ERPPCs and ERLLasers it is ok....
but if IS player get sth like TDR(ERPPC),DTR(MPLasers),AWS(ERPPC) and LCT with ERLLasers it is OP and needs to be nerfed....please give me a break....or l2p brah

its not the ppcs itself bro its the quirks the thunderbolt has -50% heat reduction plus 25% velocity which mean its ppcs run cooler and fire faster than any other mech supporting a similiar weapon.

[kapusta11]

Mizeur, on 07 January 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

It has a heat threshold of 96 and dissipation of 4.89/sec. 30 heat isn't killing its DPS.

After firing 3 times DPS drops by half because of low dissipation, a bit too high price for only 20 FLD.

Edited by kapusta11, 07 January 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Koniks]

kapusta11, on 07 January 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

After firing 3 times DPS drops by half because of low dissipation, a bit too high price for only 20 FLD.

It can put out 4-5 alphas and it has an additional 15 damage from the Gauss. So that's 35 PPFLD+10 splash.

Most things should be crippled before your heat is an issue. Particularly against a 4xERLL mech.

Laser vomit builds get only 2 alphas with less range and longer face time because of beam duration, yet they're still among the best in the game.

Edited by Mizeur, 07 January 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Kirkland Langue]

Mizeur, on 07 January 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

I don't think that's a good way to evaluate. That approach has too many variables.

You want player skill to the be the constant and mech quality to be the variable.

A mech is OP if a player can use it to beat another player of equal skill in almost any other mech under almost any conditions. We can expand it further to say that a mech is OP if the range of counters available is too narrow.

This was the case for jumpsnipers before the nerfs, SRM fix, and addition of the Clans.

Well if a mech can be used to win against players of equal skill - the way to measure that would be that in Normal Queue, such a mech should have a significantly higher win% than other mechs. This is a perfectly fine method for determining a mech is OP; at least I think it is.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 07 January 2015 - 11:27 AM.

[Koniks]

Kirkland Langue, on 07 January 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Well if a mech can be used to win against players of equal skill - the way to measure that would be that in Normal Queue, such a mech should have a significantly higher win% than other mechs. This is a perfectly fine method for determining a mech is OP; at least I think it is.

PGI already has the data to figure this out. If they wanted to, they could compare the correlation of win probability to team/player Elo and drop deck composition.

Restricting the data to solo queue isn't acceptable because game mode and map have an effect on meta (particularly 4x3 vs tonnage limits w/o 4x3). So it's entirely possible for CW to reveal that a mech is OP (e.g. the IS lights and the zerg rush) in a way that the other queues mask. Or, conversely, to make an OP solo/group mech mostly useless.

Edited by Mizeur, 07 January 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Kirkland Langue]

Mizeur, on 07 January 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

PGI already has the data to figure this out. If they wanted to, they could compare the correlation of win probability to team/player Elo and drop deck composition.

Restricting the data to solo queue isn't acceptable because game mode and map have an effect on meta (particularly 4x3 vs tonnage limits w/o 4x3). So it's entirely possible for CW to reveal that a mech is OP (e.g. the IS lights and the zerg rush) in a way that the other queues mask. Or, conversely, to make an OP solo/group mech mostly useless.

Actually, if a Mech is "only OP in CW" - that's more an indicator that it is the MAP or the GAMEMODE that are broken, not the mech.

Plus, CW doesn't match players upon skill. It's basically impossible to make a determination about whether a mech is OP or not in CW based upon wins or performance. Probably the only way to measure if something is OP or not in CW is frequency of use.. and then you aren't really measuring whether a Mech is OP or not - instead what you are doing is measuring the perception of whether a mech is OP or not.

[Gallowglas]

I'd really, sincerely like to see some posted numbers showing that your 9S performs significantly better than your top-performance, go-to chassis. To me, that's the only thing that will separate a psychological difference from a tangible one.

If you're trying to apply the OP label based on comparative analysis with other PPC boating chassis, then there are a host of other comparisons to make. Like why is the SCR faster and yet carries more firepower than my K2?

[Deathlike]

decman117, on 07 January 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

I hear clans have this magical piece of equipment called a targeting computer which buffs range, beam time, zoom, targeting time and ppc speed.

I suggest you actually look into it instead of relying on hearsay.

It doesn't decrease beam time (duration). It doesn't decrease cooldown either.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 January 2015 - 12:50 PM.