81 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior9376871]

Statistically Clans are winning most matches, and statistically Timberwolves do more damage on average than any other mech of any weight. Based on earlier quirks of the Victor it is only appropriate to apply quirk penalties to the Timberwolf and the Stormcrow (as it is only slightly less broken than the timber).

Unlike similar calls to nerf the TDR9s Statistical data actually supports the premise that the Timberwolf is over powered because we can easily see how much damage the average timberolf does in actual game play both in CW and Skirmish/Assault/Conquest.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Damage is determined by the skill of the pilot. The pilot has to control the mech in order to post damage on the screen. That being said, good pilots can easily get equal or surpass the damage a Timber/Stormcrow can put out with other clan mech's, and alot of IS mechs in the medium/heavy category. They do not put out the most damage, and even if they did, its because the entire community thinks they are op when they are not and they see more play time. Your topic is annoying, and beaten to death like a dead horse. Please for the love of mwo stop posting about nerfs to the timber/stormcrow. Its getting really, really old.

[mogs01gt]

The issue is MWO failed range weapon mechanics. They are too powerful at range. IS mechs dominate brawling but you get too beat up getting into brawling range where Clan mechs do not want to be.

Its never going to be fixed unless clan weapons have unrealistic heat penalties.

[Vanguard836]

911 Inside Job, on 02 January 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

Statistically Clans are winning most matches, and statistically Timberwolves do more damage on average than any other mech of any weight. Based on earlier quirks of the Victor it is only appropriate to apply quirk penalties to the Timberwolf and the Stormcrow (as it is only slightly less broken than the timber).

Unlike similar calls to nerf the TDR9s Statistical data actually supports the premise that the Timberwolf is over powered because we can easily see how much damage the average timberolf does in actual game play both in CW and Skirmish/Assault/Conquest.

Sure lets suggest to do the same with IS tier 1 mechs like the Victor had before it was decided that this was not a good idea. Taking steps backwards is not the best idea...

To be honest I'd prefer that the mechs you mentioned be treated the same way : no quirks, they don't need any help. Help the other clan mechs and you might see more diversity in pug matches.

Edited by Vanguard836, 02 January 2015 - 07:58 PM.

[Golden Vulf]

Dunno what the hell he is talking about. Timberwolf is the only 75 ton mech the clans have right now.

I see a lot of terrible players in King Crabs that do only 150~ish damage at the end of the match, I guess this means the Timberwolf needs a nerf? Even if there wasn't one in that particular game?

[Thunder Child]

As a Clan Player, the Issue with Timberwolves is Laser Vomit, AND Pilot Skill. My Timber gets murdered every match. It doesn't like me. I think maybe the Falcons may have traded it to us after Aidan Pryde carked it at Tukayyid.

If you can get in close, the IS does outperform Clan mechs. The problem is mainly with maps like Boreal, which give Clan Chassis improved cooling, and the range to work. Better Map Design is needed (as well as a few nerfs to the TBR, and SCR, and buffs to the majority of the rest of the Clan Mechs).

Edit: The point I am trying to make, is that in the Hands of a Skilled pilot, Timbers and Doomcrows are excellent mechs. The reason these designs are the majority of what is seen, is because unfortunately, the majority of the other Clan Mechs are actually rather terrible. Buff the rest of them (not up to TBR and SCR standards, to be fair, but at least to Tier 2-3), and you will see more variety.

Edited by Thunder Child, 02 January 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[InspectorG]

Stormcrow, Timber, Dire, maybe even Hellbie are fine as is.

Summoner, Adder(less so), Ice Furreal, Myth Lynx, Warhawk(less so), Gargles(poor gargles...), and NOva need help.

Nova needs a complete redesign, looks cool, but,- way too big-arms drag on floor.

Summoner needs Endo and hardpoints(E hardpoints) energy quirks.

Warhawk needs hardpoints - so i hear.

Gargles needs a new life.

Myth needs a speed/agility boost and removable hardwired equips.

Ice Furreal needs more torso weapons.

[FupDup]

To nerf or not to nerf, that is the question....

But what's unquestionable is that no matter what happens to the TBR/SCR/DWF/whatever, the underperforming Omnis need some attention of their own. People don't spam the 3 SCR + 1 TBR drop deck only because those two mechs are amazeballs (that's part of it but not all of it) but also because most of the other Clan mechs have pretty significant innate weaknesses of some sort or another.

[Nightshade24]

mogs01gt, on 02 January 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

The issue is MWO failed range weapon mechanics. They are too powerful at range. IS mechs dominate brawling but you get too beat up getting into brawling range where Clan mechs do not want to be.

Its never going to be fixed unless clan weapons have unrealistic heat penalties.

up until IS mechs have quirks that have quite a few weapons surpasing the clan counterpart in range, fire rate, heat, etc...

ie the Thunderbolt 9S when it still had the ER PPC's being a very good example...



Anyway damage doesn't mean much... I have a few people before in a pug match being all like "I got 2000 damage and my **** team still lost!"

Meanwhile the max armour a CT of a mech has is 100-ish possible, (that's only for the largest of assaults, we all know that there is a 3/3/3/3 of each weight class usually or something close. but lets pretend the enemy team somehow got 12 assault mech)

100 x 12 = 1200.

he has about 800 damage spare off the shots he failed at being an 'ace mech jock' at missing the CT.

Even in that situation it looks pathetic.

Damage doesn't directly mean skill. However skill is what you do with that damage...


On a side note: can anyone tell me why the timberwolf and stormcrow is over powered?!?!

Every time I see a whine thread they just post lose ties of why it's OP like "they have superior damage per match and always win!" and we all know there are more details and variables then that.

I have no idea what makes a stormcrow so good. My Nova often gets more damage then it and my ice ferret is faster and can pack normally as large off a punch as a stormcrow.

Meanwhile for the timberwolf I do not see why so many people are amazed with it, it doesn't do ballistics to well nor can it do missiles to amazingly different then LRM boats of the weight class both IS and Clan. etc...

If the timberwolf is good for it's energy abilities then that confuses me as ER medium lasers produce to much heat. 2+ er large lasers have ghost heat and it isn't really worth having more then 3. medium pulse lasers is a bit more alright but it still has heat problems. and the er smalls and small pulses can't be easily spammed like on a nova.

Everytime i ask why the timby is OP OR I post reasons why I think the Nova is way better then the Stormcrow, or the adder is better then a kitfox. people just go ballistic and claim I smoke mushrooms...

[Nightshade24]

InspectorG, on 02 January 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

Stormcrow, Timber, Dire, maybe even Hellbie are fine as is.

Summoner, Adder(less so), Ice Furreal, Myth Lynx, Warhawk(less so), Gargles(poor gargles...), and NOva need help.

Nova needs a complete redesign, looks cool, but,- way too big-arms drag on floor.

Summoner needs Endo and hardpoints(E hardpoints) energy quirks.

Warhawk needs hardpoints - so i hear.

Gargles needs a new life.

Myth needs a speed/agility boost and removable hardwired equips.

Ice Furreal needs more torso weapons.

Summoner I can understand... I've seen jenners that can pack more firepower then Summoner. (Summoner is hit hard due to the energy weapon heat rise earlier. The heat neutral builds for the summoner in normal MW is like having terra on 1 arm and therma on the other arm.)
Adder and kitfox do need a bit of help, flamer fixes could work.
mist lynx needs some help along with the other lights.
Gargoyles needs help asap. send it to the er room.
Nova could stay awhile without any help to focus onto the other mechs that need them more.
Summoner can't take endo and there can't be much off a hardpoint change in terms of adding more summoners.
Ice ferret can get 'some' hardpoints in and more variants but it's barely anything new and no side torso weapons...


Personally I think the stormcrow needs more quirks then the nova and ice ferret. It's the only clan medium I struggle to get over 200 damage while the other mechs always have no problems breaking 500

[LT. HARDCASE]

Nightshade24, on 02 January 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

On a side note: can anyone tell me why the timberwolf and stormcrow is over powered?!?!

It's simple. The Clan XL is what makes people feel the Timber and Crow are overpowered. All of the luxuries of the XL's weight saving, without the instant death penalties. If Clan mechs died to ST destruction, or had much harsher penalties than what are currently in place, we wouldn't be having these discussions.

Edited by Kevjack, 02 January 2015 - 08:24 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Vanguard836, on 02 January 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Sure lets suggest to do the same with IS tier 1 mechs like the Victor had before it was decided that this was not a good idea. Taking steps backwards is not the best idea...

To be honest I'd prefer that the mechs you mentioned be treated the same way : no quirks, they don't need any help. Help the other clan mechs and you might see more diversity in pug matches.

Except the Victor has quirks. It clearly did not live up to the expectation that it would be a Tier 1 equivalent. They are small quirks though. So maybe, we could give the Timberwolf and Stormcrow small negative quirks?

[Xetelian]

His name is bait.

The title is bait.

The content of the post is clearly bait.

[Cygone]

Sure, give them negative quirks,

However...

Remove all the OP **** from the IS Mechs 1st

Oh and If you are under any illusion, IS > Clan Mechs

[IronLichRich]

Xetelian, on 02 January 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

His name is bait.

The title is bait.

The content of the post is clearly bait.

QFT

[Sable]

What makes the timberwolf and stormcrow OP you ask??? I will guess it's maneuverability + firepower. The Timberwolf is at a sweet spot for tonnage having good speed, firepower and armor. The stormcrow is faster, and while having less armor the slim profile makes it harder to hit, while also being able to do almost the same builds as a timberwolf. I guess the tonnage sweetspot is what people should be complaining about. NO MORE 75 TON MECHS!! da turk er jobs!!!

I do well in my timberwolf not because of some super distinct advantage but because i played it for 3 months straight once i got mine. I know how to run it well and it's my most played mech. I've died many times in it as well. There are times i don't feel it is strong enough and there are times where i use my speed and range to my advantage and come out as a powerhouse player. But i've never gotten the feeling i had an advantage or anyone else

Edited by Sable, 02 January 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[Wolfwood592]

Lol and the clanners attack!!!!!

Not the timby god!!!???!!!

what a joke

[Kaspirikay]

Lets not kid ourselves. The Madcat is a beast and its awesome.

[MechaBattler]

Sable, on 02 January 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

What makes the timberwolf and stormcrow OP you ask??? I will guess it's maneuverability + firepower. The Timberwolf is at a sweet spot for tonnage having good speed, firepower and armor. The stormcrow is faster, and while having less armor the slim profile makes it harder to hit, while also being able to do almost the same builds as a timberwolf. I guess the tonnage sweetspot is what people should be complaining about. NO MORE 75 TON MECHS!! da turk er jobs!!!

I do well in my timberwolf not because of some super distinct advantage but because i played it for 3 months straight once i got mine. I know how to run it well and it's my most played mech. I've died many times in it as well. There are times i don't feel it is strong enough and there are times where i use my speed and range to my advantage and come out as a powerhouse player. But i've never gotten the feeling i had an advantage or anyone else

Right. You guys trained in the mountains until your bodies got used to using less oxygen. Now you're super mechwarriors. That's why it's strong. Because your kung fu master Mechwarrior legends.

[anonymous161]

Alwrath, on 02 January 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

Damage is determined by the skill of the pilot. The pilot has to control the mech in order to post damage on the screen. That being said, good pilots can easily get equal or surpass the damage a Timber/Stormcrow can put out with other clan mech's, and alot of IS mechs in the medium/heavy category. They do not put out the most damage, and even if they did, its because the entire community thinks they are op when they are not and they see more play time. Your topic is annoying, and beaten to death like a dead horse. Please for the love of mwo stop posting about nerfs to the timber/stormcrow. Its getting really, really old.

I agree this is an idiotic topic, clans have been nerfed plenty enough as it is, the timber wolf has always been one of the most powerful mechs ever created and we really dont need to make it among another over nerfed very expensive mechs in the collection as other mechs have been nerfed like the highlander.

Now go dunk your head in a toilet full of manure please thanks bye.