472 replies to this topic

[Vas79]

We go out of our way to avoid auto drops. They aren't worth the time.

[MischiefSC]

Vas79, on 10 January 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

We go out of our way to avoid auto drops. They aren't worth the time.

No, they're not. Nobody likes them - nobody ever did. Then again if you drop, sometimes people show up. If not, at least you're doing.... something, right? What's even more horrible - it's still largely better than pugging the Clan border. Though I'm sure you could be help on the Steiner border

[Vas79]

Trying to get a defence on the clan side was painful tonight around 5:30 MST, we actually went to the public queue for about 30 minutes until people peeled off for dinner. Every where we went the defender to attacker ration was around 2:1. Things finally heated up on Randar around 8 for me.

I had contemplated poking Marik on Scarborough to try and get a fight, but since Liao is paying me I won't **** where I eat.

[MischiefSC]

I approve of the new, higher morale, having fun and good sportsmanship, playful Liao.

Thumbs up. We've got years of shooting each other ahead of us, there's no reason that generators of grinding, ruthless warfare can't be fun for the whole family.

[Paramemetic]

AW straight up told us they were "holding us up" so their scrub tiers could flip pixel planets last night, but some other cool dudes on Dav tell me this is a dumb thing and that we can all hope for a better tomorrow.

Those other cool dudes told us that while we were beating them though so maybe they were just trying to distract us or something.

[Maxwell Albritten]

Paramemetic, on 12 January 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

AW straight up told us they were "holding us up" so their scrub tiers could flip pixel planets last night, but some other cool dudes on Dav tell me this is a dumb thing and that we can all hope for a better tomorrow.

Those other cool dudes told us that while we were beating them though so maybe they were just trying to distract us or something.

Can confirm. Was in a totally different game and the Davs (can't remember if it was specifically aw) didn't even open the gates for the first 10 mins. They didn't actually push until maybe 5 mins left.

[Harathan]

Maxwell Albritten, on 12 January 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Can confirm. Was in a totally different game and the Davs (can't remember if it was specifically aw) didn't even open the gates for the first 10 mins. They didn't actually push until maybe 5 mins left.

Don't know about that, I was on the Marik border most of yesterday. If Liao has the numbers on us now, I'm not sure what the problem is with tar pitting - you guys did it to us when we had the numbers over you, so clearly some in Liao think its a valid tactic.

[wanderer]

It is a smart tactic, actually. Lose the battle, win the war and it effectively magnifies your weaker unit's strength if it allows another one to succeed. There's been plenty of PUG forces that just can't punch through an organized defense, but they can hold it down to let someone else through elsewhere.

May mean that if as defenders the other side isn't piling up dead bodies fast enough it's time to sally out of the gates and start slapping attackers around. I actually was in a match where we realized they were buttoning up at around 30ish attackers destroyed,so we deathballed up and just rolled them back to their drop points, leaving a light or two on approaches to pick off anything that tried to sneak through. Likely ended the game 10 minutes earlier than they wanted us to in the process.

I certainly think it's a valid tactic. This isn't pubbie queue, running interference so the other guy on the team can take it all the way in for a planet-winner is using your tactical brain cells.

[Pwnographic Kerensky]

Well its actually very dirty. Since they have mucho numbers, they should be ready for this stuff. They are playing the system. Most games would ban groups like this.

[MischiefSC]

To be fair we do not have the numbers now. On any given day Liao can probably field more total players on the Dav/Liao front. I've had the same thing done to be more than once by Liao, especially on Sulfur. They'd make 1 or 2 pushes, see it wasn't going well and go turtle to drag the match out. Had it done by Marik too, especially close to the Cease Fire.

When it's close to the ceasefire and there is few enough people in queue it has some tactical value. If the queues are full though it is of questionable use as both teams will absolutely get another match and all you're doing is burning 10 minutes.

Is it a viable strategy? Sure, in specific context and situations. Not something anyone should see every day. When populations favored Davion and we were rolling Liao non-stop stuff like this came up and we didn't post things like this.

Units in Davion tend to be pretty organized and very cool people. If someone has a concern about something it may not be a bad idea to pop over to the TS, ask to talk to someone from that unit and politely voice concerns. As a given rule that's going to be more productive than an attempt at 'name and shame' on the forums. Stuff like this didn't suddenly pop into being yesterday - these are tactics that have been used against Davion (and every other faction I have no doubt) for a month.

Don't be all 'Clanners complaining about TDR-9S'.

Besides; you guys know you can walk over the gates, right?

[Roadbeer]

This thread is still a thing?

Huh.

[MischiefSC]

Roadbeer, on 12 January 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

This thread is still a thing?

Huh.

It's been through some iterations and grew as a person. It's had some useful and productive content along the way - I still think the Ticket System that came out of it is the best overall solution for turret stomps, wins vs zergs and a foundation for more complex logistics I've seen.

You can't judge a thread by the first page and last page Roadbeer. That's just where all the flotsam accumulates

[Vas79]

Oddly enough I think that using a team to tie up another team for an entire match a valid tactic. If your defending and you think that the other team is trying to keep you tied in to waste time attack them, get to their spawn and punch them in the face. Just because the map tells you your the defending team doesn't mean you can go on the offensive.

And thanks for the plug for the ticket system Mischief, it's not garnering the attention of Gut's attrition thread I guess I should have been less Canadian in my posting of it.

[MischiefSC]

Vas79, on 12 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Oddly enough I think that using a team to tie up another team for an entire match a valid tactic. If your defending and you think that the other team is trying to keep you tied in to waste time attack them, get to their spawn and punch them in the face. Just because the map tells you your the defending team doesn't mean you can go on the offensive.

And thanks for the plug for the ticket system Mischief, it's not garnering the attention of Gut's attrition thread I guess I should have been less Canadian in my posting of it.

It has its place but I think people use it without realizing how the drop mechanics work. If it's a full queue all you're doing is literally slowing down everyone else behind you - everyone, the comp team and the pugs, will get less total matches. Not just the team you're playing against. It will wait for the next slot and someone will open up in less time than the extra 10 wasted minutes you cost them.

The ticket system is less confrontational and more logical. It's worth mentioning that Guts idea provoked a lot of conversation - largely people effectively arguing FOR a system like what you put forward as an alternative to his. Good ideas in games like this are not so much about most hits/likes but what people take as 'the best option'. I think you've effectively laid the foundation for 'the best option', now we just need for PGI to get enough catastrophic events out of the way to have enough ***** to give to look at ideas like that.

[Icebergdx]

Faith McCarron, on 03 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

I'm curious, Davions, as to why in your opinion, Liao loses planets virtually every time? You obviously dismiss ghost drops as insignificant, so why does Liao always lose? Even you guys can't be THAT pompous as to think that you are orders of magnitude better than Liao at the game, so what is it?

And I'm not interested in you just saying that you should always win because you have more people, that's the equivalent of "cuz 'murica" as an argument. I want to know why you guys actually think you win planets every single time.

Frankly, to be blunt, Liao has a good large unit, that plays with a chip on their shoulder (The Goonz aka Word of Lowtax (WoL)to the newbies). They have a couple of house units, although one unit is currently under investigation by Comstar for multiple videos/screenshots of them using Aimbots and speed hacks. (Any other explanation for a Warhawk that was running well over 100 kph on Alpine? You can see the video on You Tube.) And a lot of people that are just trying to get by doing the best they can. Not being bad pilots, but maybe not being successful as much as they would like. This means that they are struggling. They do not field as many units, or people overall. Fed Suns, DC, Steiner, Wolf have more people, FWL, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bears may have more people. Just like in Canon, only the FRR has fewer, and Probably Smoke Jag are not too much bigger than Liao.

The fact it, whenever you are in a fight, if you are the smallest, unless you are the best, you will get your butt kicked. Liao has a good unit and a couple decent ones, but overall has not had a large pilot bank to draw on. Merc Companies can change that, as can different activity periods though the day, but that is the imperfections of the game, and that is why there are some people on here, Liao, Davion, Wolf, and Marik, who are trying to come up with ideas.

Another solution to the ghost drop issue might be fairly easily implemented. Instead of a turret drop being worth 1 segment, maybe make it so that it takes 10 turret drops to take one segment. I am quite sure that the program they have tracking population, usage, and composition, could be used to make this determination. This would make it so that turret drops would have a small pay out to people that get them just because that is how things work out (pugs, small groups) and not be attractive to 12 man groups, or be an easy way to affect planetary possession (turret drops in the last hour before cease fire.)

Just an idea.

Edited by Icebergdx, 12 January 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[Icebergdx]

Mordale, on 03 January 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Funny. Not Nice. Not true, but funny...

If he really wanted to make a point, he would have changed the Liao emblem to that of the Limp Sword (look it up on BattleTechWiki.)

Edited by Icebergdx, 12 January 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[101011]

Wait, wait, wait? Liaos are complaining about underhanded tactics?

[Icebergdx]

Gorgo7, on 03 January 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

Join us and your opinions will be more warmly received.
Until you do you aren't helping, you are working to divide us. Stop it. We don't need the distraction. We have enough problems.
If people saying "woe is me" troubles you, stop reading Liao posts.
Truely, Woe is us! Or haven't you noticed?? In fact, your posts are part of the Woe is Us issue.

Use your skills to defend the 9S from the Clans, be witty with Davion but do it there, not here.
You spend ALL YOUR TIME telling Laio "how it is" and offering suggestions to improve our game experience and how to "come around" to Davions way of thinking.
That is very insulting and I have reported you for it. I will continue to do so until you and the other two trolls settle down or are kicked from the game.
TO BE CLEAR, PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKE ME SO ANGRY THAT I CONSIDER STOPPING THE $$$ I SPEND ON THIS GAME EVERY MONTH.
DO YOU GET ME?
Spend more time in game and less trolling here.

Really? You reported him for stating an opinion, in clear language, with viable points, and without personal insults? Dude, you need to go take a chill, relax, get a beer, get laid, get SOMETHING and calm down. Its a game, and in the end, it is all meaningless because when they take this from BETA to FINAL, THEY ARE GOING TO RESET THE MAP AND ALL OF THIS WORK AND SWEAT AND QQ WILL BE MEANINGLESS!!!!

Reported for being insulting? Get real.... Or take your marbles and go home. I doubt anyone will miss you.

101011, on 12 January 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

Wait, wait, wait? Liaos are complaining about underhanded tactics?

I know, right? This coming from the house that brought the Inner Sphere the Black May attacks? Nothing like a few thousand killed by chemical weapons.... Thank you Kali Liao.

[oldradagast]

Socop, on 03 January 2015 - 02:35 AM, said:

Real tactics and alliances? How is blobbing a real tactic or alliance? This isn't some open MMO world like eve, its a paper map in sharded off matches. There's no strategic depth to overwhelming smaller opponents with big numbers, nor is that a sustainable or fun model for all the smaller opponents. The big numbers aren't even fighting opponents, they're ghost capping while a fraction equal to smaller group gets to play the game.

It's just petty meta-politicking that leaves anyone not winning disgruntled and likely to take their ball and go home. This game doesn't have the population to support that model long term.

Agreed. Based upon a lot of what you hear around the CW forum, it takes great "skill" to hit Ready and get dropped against a PUG group for a free win... or to perform ghost drops...

I love the lunacy in the CW forum - it's so revealing. All the epeen-polishers trumpeting how "life isn't fair, deal with it!" - I guess they are unable to tell the difference between MWO and real life... and the endless excuses why the game mode is "fine" as it is... and then you look at the details, and it's more of the usual nonsense. The self-declared "elite" players holing up on defense and ghost-dropping for their wins, trumpeting about their "skills" while demanding the right to continue stomping PUG's, and on and on it goes. And then they bash the Public Queue players, who don't get handed free wins and ghost drops, as "lesser players without skillz."

We get it - "win at any cost" - even if nobody else is having fun and it kills the game... lol... unreal.

Edited by oldradagast, 12 January 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[Icebergdx]

Saiphas Cain, on 06 January 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

I think Radioactive MEME'd this right on the nose. Literally the only reason APOC is with Laio at the moment is the paycheck. Once our contract is up we'll be looking at the current state of bonuses and go where the money is which, if Laio drops recompense at all, will only exacerbate the problem. I'm not saying we're the only unit here ( not by a long shot ), or even the most effective but that we, like some, are directly motivated by C-Bills.

Spoken like a TRUE MERCENARY!!!! Well role played, sir!