30 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

Nothing is worse than seeing a planet go from 80 to 40 in the last 60 minutes. Kudos to the faction that has the organization to organize the zerg but it makes the first 23 hours useless and drives thing to "don't bother to log in until the last hour".

How to fix:

1. Go to 2 ceasefires per day
-gets EU involved

2. Make ceasefire a 4 hour random window. The counter counts down to the start of the random window and then goes to "ceasefire immanent" ...and kicks in randomly in the next 4 hours.

This still gives a heated final push but avoids the scheduled zerg. it also makes it worth working a planet up to high % before the window. (Right now, it is too easy to wipe out a days worth of effort).

Edited by Chemie, 03 January 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Instead of 15 drop zones, make it 50. It won't look as good in the UI as the 15 big squares, but it has two advantages:

• It makes it impossibe for small units to grab a planet in the last 60 minutes. You either have to keep fighting for a long time or involve a LOT of people.
  
• It makes it harder to conquer planets. Getting enough victories to flip a planet will be a major accomplishment, which means factions like FRR and Liao won't get wiped out in a few weeks.

[Iqfish]

Agreed.

A Community Warfare that excludes everything outside of NA out of it is no Community Warfare.

Edited by Iqfish, 03 January 2015 - 06:46 AM.

[Chemie]

I debated if moving from 10 to 15 zones helped or hurt. The plus is why you suggest 50 but the minus is that each sector is a game so it allows for more simultaneous games which supports the zerg. Taking your 50, if you could field 50 12-mans, you could take the planet in 15 minutes (assuming the OPFOR does not have 50 units). I agree 50 is harder than 15 but the point is that more zones actually makes zerg easier to some extent.

Also, with 50, it will tend to focus all players on one or two planets since it would be so hard to ever take. Plus as the ceasefire closes in, many might give up if a planets was not near the 50% mark as it becomes hopeless which I am not sure I like either.

I am open to PGI experimenting just like moving from 10 to 15. Try 25. Try my idea. They need to stop the zerg otherwise they will lose players and CW becomes a 1 hour game mode.

Edit: I forgot to add, DO NOT go to a 25 hour window.as Russ floated via twitter. This will result in players leaving for 7-14 days as the window goes into crazy times (for both EU and NA), It would be like "leave for a week" mode.

Edited by Chemie, 03 January 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[Mark of Caine]

Instead of increasing the number of zones to promote even more ghost drops early on, why not go the other way; decrease the number to either 3 or 5 zones. And then cap the queue limit to 36 or 60 players per planet. This would have a two-fold effect.

First, with less zones per planet, even if some teams ghost capped the planet to max early on, defenders that queued later in the day would still have a reasonable chance of winning back 66% of those zones.

Second, by capping the queues to either 36 or 60 players respective to the number of zones on a planet, you then spread out the player base, so that you don't end up with queues that have 100 people on one planet along the border, and the other completely untouched, but rather would have both planets along the border being fought over. Factions could also coordinate amongst their units and could send their better units to either attack or defend along their border, either securing a new planet, or defending an existing one with reasonable success.

Lastly, if there are more players than capped queues, then PGI can start opening up more planets per cycle to be fought over, thus increasing the importance of CW coordination.

M 2 Cbills.

[Eglar]

Chemie, on 03 January 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

Nothing is worse than seeing a planet go from 80 to 40 in the last 60 minutes. Kudos to the faction that has the organization to organize the zerg but it makes the first 23 hours useless and drives thing to "don't bother to log in until the last hour".

How to fix:

1. Go to 2 ceasefires per day
-gets EU involved

2. Make ceasefire a 4 hour random window. The counter counts down to the start of the random window and then goes to "ceasefire immanent" ...and kicks in randomly in the next 4 hours.

This still gives a heated final push but avoids the scheduled zerg. it also makes it worth working a planet up to high % before the window. (Right now, it is too easy to wipe out a days worth of effort).

Why not just abandon the territory-system and introduce Attacks won weighted against Counter-Attacks won.

[Mystere]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 03 January 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

• It makes it harder to conquer planets. Getting enough victories to flip a planet will be a major accomplishment, which means factions like FRR and Liao won't get wiped out in a few weeks.

My operatives within FRR worlds report masses of people rejoicing on news that large reinforcements have come to help them. The words they used were "It's one huge party right now!".

Let's burn them all and leave nothing of use.


*********************************

I don't know what the solution is right now but increasing the "territories" might just help the zerg even more. I don't think Falcons have that kind of population to mount enough defenses.

Edited by Mystere, 03 January 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[Chagatay]

Eglar, on 03 January 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Why not just abandon the territory-system and introduce Attacks won weighted against Counter-Attacks won.

Nah, I like the territory system as it limits the influence of a few 12 mans massing wins. I think 15 slots is plenty (serious that is a crapton of people). 25 might be a tad too many and too cumbersome for attackers. Noting that defense can always field more quantity as all the houses or clans can field a defense force.

I really want the perpetual war thing you know like 12hr + 0-24hr @ random or something similiar.
Please endorse fixing war issues with more war.

[Chemie]

Caine2112, on 03 January 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

Instead of increasing the number of zones to promote even more ghost drops early on, why not go the other way; decrease the number to either 3 or 5 zones. And then cap the queue limit to 36 or 60 players per planet. This would have a two-fold effect.

First, with less zones per planet, even if some teams ghost capped the planet to max early on, defenders that queued later in the day would still have a reasonable chance of winning back 66% of those zones.

Second, by capping the queues to either 36 or 60 players respective to the number of zones on a planet, you then spread out the player base, so that you don't end up with queues that have 100 people on one planet along the border, and the other completely untouched, but rather would have both planets along the border being fought over. Factions could also coordinate amongst their units and could send their better units to either attack or defend along their border, either securing a new planet, or defending an existing one with reasonable success.

Lastly, if there are more players than capped queues, then PGI can start opening up more planets per cycle to be fought over, thus increasing the importance of CW coordination.

M 2 Cbills.

This just magnifies the "nothing matters for the first 23 hours" thing.

[Mark of Caine]

Chemie, on 03 January 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

This just magnifies the "nothing matters for the first 23 hours" thing.

Please explain. *curious*

[Zepster]

Multiple windows is desperately needed to get all players involved.

[Chemie]

2:00 est so nearly prime time EU and there are less than 100 playing....because they know it wont matter

Caine2112, on 03 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Please explain. *curious*

Because, if only 3 zones, you ignore it until 30 min left and then throw in your 3 best teams....

[Shredhead]

Problem is, that between EU prime and NA prime time there's not enough time difference. EU prime time stops around 1-2 hours before NA prime time starts. So a 2 cease fire periods system per day at every 12 hours would screw over one of the two time zones again.
The biggest problem here is simply (imo) the ghost wins system.
I propose a planet lock system as follows:
As long as there is at least one 12 man team active on a contested planet, the other side gets no ghost wins. You can only get free wins as attacker if no one defends the planet at all. Counter attacking defenders are still allowed ghost wins.
What happens in this case is, that factions attacking a planet have to commit
Screw all of this. My proposal would open a whole new can of worms. Back to cease fire times. NA and EU prime times would need two cease fire periods, the first after 17 hours 20 minutes (11:20 pm CET), the second as usual 11:20 pm EST (5:20 am CET).
I honestly don't have any other idea to solve the issue.

€dit:
It might still be a viable idea to lock planets from ghost wins at a certain amount of attackers/defenders (36+ maybe?).

Edited by Shredhead, 03 January 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Chemie]

locking with 36+ makes a lot of sense and avoids the "best defense is not to defend" thing

[Prophetic]

Screw time zones and all that other crap.

Give every planet 100 points.

Start every planet at 25 (in favor of the defender)

If the planet hits zero then it locks in favor of the defenders.

If the planet reaches 100 then it flips, no matter the time of day.

PGI has the actual numbers so they could make it 200 points or whatever.

Bottom line is if planets only flip at a certain time each day then nothing will ever change.

[Mystere]

Prophetic, on 03 January 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Screw time zones and all that other crap.

Give every planet 100 points.

Start every planet at 25 (in favor of the defender)

If the planet hits zero then it locks in favor of the defenders.

If the planet reaches 100 then it flips, no matter the time of day.

PGI has the actual numbers so they could make it 200 points or whatever.

Bottom line is if planets only flip at a certain time each day then nothing will ever change.

I prefer the 15 "territories" abstraction instead of just the win/loss count. PGI just has to improve on it. Add more game modes and maps and not just "Invasion" mode. Make planetary conquest a directed graph of attacks/counterattacks/beachheads/withdrawals/etc.

Edited by Mystere, 03 January 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Tamashii]

Prophetic, on 03 January 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Screw time zones and all that other crap.

Give every planet 100 points.

Start every planet at 25 (in favor of the defender)

If the planet hits zero then it locks in favor of the defenders.

If the planet reaches 100 then it flips, no matter the time of day.

PGI has the actual numbers so they could make it 200 points or whatever.

Bottom line is if planets only flip at a certain time each day then nothing will ever change.

Mystere, on 03 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

I prefer the 15 "territories" abstraction instead of just the win/loss count. PGI just has to improve on it. Add more game modes and maps and not just "Invasion" mode. Make planetary conquest a directed graph of attacks/counterattacks/beachheads/withdrawals/etc.

Actually this is all I have to say!
Except, PGI you have to do this,immediately

[Chocowolf Sradac]

I think a 2nd or even a 3rd attack phase per day would be nice to try that actually does make planentary changes to the board. At the Moment CW is very unforgiving to non-american players as they have to be in bad times to be able to contribute to the last few hours of the phase

Also the start of the attack phase is so utterly pointless as there is so much time for the enemy to ghost win it all back during non-peak hours

Edited by Chocowolf, 04 January 2015 - 02:12 AM.

[Liam Avery]

Three ceasefire zones: US, Euro, Oceania - A ceasefire every 8 hours (24 hours in a day)

Keep the territory system in place, but instead of having 15 districts per planet, change it to 5 sectors with 7 districts in them, this will make it 35 districts per planet. Conquering a single sector will not flip the planet completely - only that sector - the opposing faction will need to take a majority of the districts in each sector in order to flip the planet completely.

Districts that are captured are "locked in" until the next ceasefire cycle begins.

Example:

European ceasefire just began - your European members captured three of seven districts in Sector 1 of Kooken's Pleasure Pit, these three districts are now locked in (as well as the ones that were defended) until the beginning of the American ceasefire. This will allow for the American teams to continue where their European teams left off, and the cycle repeats until the Planet is either successfully captured by the opposing faction, or defended by the home faction.

After twenty four hours has elapsed, the game will count the 'scores' on the planet and the planet will then flip or remain the same.

How does this prevent ghost drops? It doesn't... but if I'm not mistaken, a ghost drop right now is a 3% victory... that can easily be changed to either 1% or 0.5% which would effectively (in theory) make ghost dropping useless.

$0.02

Edited by Liam Avery, 04 January 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

I actually like the idea of increasing the number of drop zones, however I would tie that in with changing the length between cease-fires from 1 day to a minimum of 3 maximum of 7 days, (more lore-like on speed plus it puts a stop to the whining that planets are being won too fast) The last change I would suggest is simple, have a 30 minute "Battle counts" cutoff before the cease fire meaning that you can still launch but your pretty much fighting for c-bills if you launch within 30 minutes before the cease fire (all the ghost captures/defenses happen in this timeframe) This makes it to where any battles that determine whether or not the planet flips are actually finished before the cease fire.

Just my couple of thoughts as good or bad as they are I leave them here.