33 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Nightshade24, on 05 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Doesn't enhance vision also give you more information about the enemy? I thought it also tells you how much ammo the enemy mech has as well as how hot it was.

The Enhanced Imaging ("EI") system consisted of two parts: the Enhanced Imaging Neural Implant ("EINI"; the "glowing tattoo" part, consisting of sub-dermal implants connected to the CNS) and the Enhanced Imaging Display ("EID"; a HUD element that interfaced with the EINI to produce the EI effect).

"By combining sensor information from surrounding friendly units with preloaded terrain data, the EID constructs a virtual view of the battlefield which clearly identifies all targets as friendly or hostile and allows technical data on a selected unit to be called up with a simple command. Besides removing the need to look down at cockpit controls and preventing the warrior from being overloaded with unnecessary data, the virtual display also presents a moveable perspective, allowing the warrior to change his point-of-view to observe any area of the battlefield from any angle."

"When used in combination with an [EID], a Clan warrior with [EINI] was able to assimilate data and react to it reflexively, in a sense 'jacking in' to their machine. Commands to the EI display could be issued by thought alone and the instant communication between pilot and machine allowed for superior reaction times. Furthermore the implants replaced the need for a MechWarrior to wear a Neurohelmet."

As far as TT gameplay was concerned, EI did a lot of useful things:

• +1 to Piloting checks
  
• +1 modifier per hex of forest, jungle or smoke terrain it fires through to a minimum of -1
  
• ignores darkness modifiers
  
• allows an Aimed Shot attack with +1 modifier as though equipped with a Targeting Computer

It also came with a host of downsides, most of them connected to the EINI & its effects on the MechWarrior:

• If internal damage is suffered by the 'Mech, the pilot must pass a 2D6 roll or suffer damage equivalent to that imparted by an internal ammunition explosion.
  
• Within a year of implantation most displayed the traits of paranoia and extremely abusive personalities, with some subjects suffering from additional side-effects such as introversion, transit disorientation syndrome or night blindness.
  
• Within three years most EI warriors were rendered unfit for duty by catatonic insanity.
  
• Clan scientists managed to develop drugs and therapy to combat these effects, however this required daily access to a Clan medical facility and at best could only delay the inevitable

It could be interesting if they worked the downsides into it (made analogous to some sort of overheating effect, ir if it was made into a consumable to represent the coping drugs, or something to that effect)...

[DoctorZuber]

While I'm not completely opposed to the idea, it is a touchy subject. The current vision modes, are a matter of some hot debate.

Night vision as it is currently implemented, is inferior to normal vision at any range greater than about 500m or so. With normal vision and 4x zoom, you can easily spot and fire upon targets at 1000m or more even without going to the extreme notion of actually changing your gamma settings.

Thermal vision has similar drawbacks in that it locks you into a shorter range vision mode and with some practice you do as well or better without it because once again, you can see farther, if not quite as clearly.

So adding a new vision mode to the mix now, particularly one that is intended as a buff to one faction only, is likely to cause no small amount of drama. Maybe they should put more effort into balance what we've got before going ahead and complicating things further.

[Kissamies]

I thought EI was used in the cartoon as an excuse to fit the mid-90's CGI with rest of the animation. In MW2 it was probably mostly for making rendering lighter for the lower end computers. I used it for time to time because it reminded me of the classics like Battlezone and Elite. Nice of them to incorporate it in the game system rules as well, though.

[Tarogato]

I am thoroughly against it. Visionmode Warrior Online. People already use vision modes too much as it is and you don't get to see the aesthetic beauty of maps like Viridian Bog and you don't have to deal with the lower visibility on maps like Frozen City. Just like in MW2, if image enhancement were brought to MWO, it would be the only thing you'd ever use - might as well have a macro for it attached to the Play Now button. Might as well not bother designing maps and mechs to look good because nobody will ever see them in game. Just wireframes. That would be disappointing.

[Strum Wealh]

Tarogato, on 01 May 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

I am thoroughly against it. Visionmode Warrior Online. People already use vision modes too much as it is and you don't get to see the aesthetic beauty of maps like Viridian Bog and you don't have to deal with the lower visibility on maps like Frozen City. Just like in MW2, if image enhancement were brought to MWO, it would be the only thing you'd ever use - might as well have a macro for it attached to the Play Now button. Might as well not bother designing maps and mechs to look good because nobody will ever see them in game. Just wireframes. That would be disappointing.

That is indeed a problem - in fact, it's the same problem that resulted in the previous vision mode changes.

Quote

Both of the new vision modes have been tuned to work well out to a distance of 700 meters. This is intentional to re-balance the vision modes and ensure that no vision mode is vastly superior to any other, the goal is for the vision modes to be useful in different scenarios but no one mode should dominate all the time the way the current thermal vision mode has been doing.

Quote

Here you can see that we have gone back to a gray-scale approach for thermal this is again intentional for a number of reasons, the color graded approach was leading to thermal being an easy vision mode to spot Mechs and devolving into instantly switching to thermal find a blue blob and start firing at it.

----------

Now for all those snipers out there that are starting to hate me, hold your horses, the goal here is not to cripple snipers, though there is a definite intention to force you back into regular vision mode for some of those long range shots...

Indeed, if EI is even considered at all, one of the big challenges will be how to make it both distinctive AND useful, WITHOUT making it "the go-to vision mode" like the old color-grade thermal was.

[Modo44]

EI is something that should have been in the game since day one. Yes, it will be used if it provides an advantage. That is how games work. Some people run MWO with all the purdy -- and distracting -- graphics options turned up to very high, others remove whatever distractions they can. You think I am just talking about bad players? Look at some of the competitive ones, like JagerXII who even keeps the silly low FoV and cockpit glass.

No amount of fog or weak detail levels will prevent the best players from dominating, nor the terribads from sucking forever. What it does, however, is make the game fugly and hard to use for everyone. In case of EI specifically, it could be a serious performance booster for all those ancient PCs people try to play MWO on. Say hello to all the players who literally can not run the thing in its current state.

Edited by Modo44, 01 May 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

KuroNyra, on 05 January 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

My idea would be to bring that vision mode has a module you can equip on your mech after unlocking it. Clans Mech only at first.
Then once the technology is officialy spread, allow it for the Inner Sphere mech.

There is no need for that since Word of Blake has developed its own http://www.sarna.net...eural_Interface with basically the same functionality, so this should level the playing field. Also this topic has already been pondered upon (by myself as well) in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...hanced-imaging/

[Burktross]

Hotthedd, on 23 April 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

I would be against it.

It would be one more step in the easy/arcade direction, and away from the sim I was sold.

Ei is canon, thus it is less simlike for you not to have it.

[Hotthedd]

Burktross, on 24 May 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

Ei is canon, thus it is less simlike for you not to have it.

Canon =/= sim

But if you want to use the canon argument, how does PGI simulate the side effects to the pilot?

What is the point of even making detailed 'mechs and maps when anybody who wants a competitive edge will never see any of it?

[MalodorousMonkey]

[evil713]

I would be for it, but give it a limited range like 800m and the ability to see damaged sections only on targeted enemies, so you still need to get target info to use it fully.

[Mercules]

Ninthshadow, on 05 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think it was my very first exposure to Mechwarrior, actually...

I'm sorry... are you getting counseling for that?

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

No smoke irritation, snow or anythign like that
No effect of camo with the background
Anything that is basically no relevant and just shiny nonsense will b e erased by that mode, focusing you more on the real imporant things.

So anything that makes the game interesting? If the only thing that matters to you is shooting at easy to see targets there is always:

Modo44, on 01 May 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

In case of EI specifically, it could be a serious performance booster for all those ancient PCs people try to play MWO on. Say hello to all the players who literally can not run the thing in its current state.

I love that you use "terribads" and then try and garner sympathy for people who can't save up for a semi-decent computer able to play the game. If you want to play modern PC games you need a modern PC.

[Burktross]

Hotthedd, on 24 May 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

Canon =/= sim

But if you want to use the canon argument, how does PGI simulate the side effects to the pilot?

What is the point of even making detailed 'mechs and maps when anybody who wants a competitive edge will never see any of it?

First: Yes, Canon = Sim. What are you simulating? Battletech. Thus, canon implementations make it more like the Battletech sim it's supposed to be.

Side Effects to the pilot would probably come in no sooner than pilot damage or character death mechanics; an entirely different discussion.

Funny you mention the detailed graphics, because maps already muddy everything into heavily uncontrasted shades of fog. Never the less, there was a different EI implementation thread floating around earlier the past week. The general shade of the game becomes colorized, but mechs get a wireframe ontop of their default appearance, which would color different sections red, green, etc. depending on damage. So the graphics (albeit not color) are preserved.

[Hotthedd]

Burktross, on 25 May 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

First: Yes, Canon = Sim. What are you simulating? Battletech. Thus, canon implementations make it more like the Battletech sim it's supposed to be.

Side Effects to the pilot would probably come in no sooner than pilot damage or character death mechanics; an entirely different discussion.

Funny you mention the detailed graphics, because maps already muddy everything into heavily uncontrasted shades of fog. Never the less, there was a different EI implementation thread floating around earlier the past week. The general shade of the game becomes colorized, but mechs get a wireframe ontop of their default appearance, which would color different sections red, green, etc. depending on damage. So the graphics (albeit not color) are preserved.

"Canon" and "simulation" are apples and oranges. Something can be canon, but have nothing to do with a computer game sim, such as all of the lore and fluff. Conversely, something can be an awesome simulation of piloting a battlemech, but be decidedly NOT canon, such as lock-on LRMs and SSRMs.

(For the record, I would always lean toward the sides that were more canon AND sim whenever possible.)

Whatever your opinion is on the graphics, the bottom line is that EI would become the default vision every time, all the time, for anyone who wanted a competitive edge. Anything that is a no-brainer like that is not good for the game, IMO.