39 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Oh God I want melee, if only to pilot one of my favourite rides:




"My love for you is like a truck, Berserker"

Edited by Kiiyor, 06 January 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 06 January 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

The biggest problem with melee in MWO is actually animations/modeling. Our mechs here are aesthetically designed like walking bricks with very minimal joint flexibility (mostly). For example, let's look at our Atlas.
I have a hard time imagining those shoulders being capable of more motion than simply rotating along one perpendicular axle at the shoulder joint. And even if it could somehow do that, it still probably wouldn't be very fast at doing so.
So we'd either have a slow-motion punch that looks comically stupid or a fast-motion punch that looks completely unbelievable for such a clunky and chunky unit to perform; people already complain about mechs being "too fast."
For better or for worse, Alex Iglesias' mech designs simply were not designed to have the same range of motion as a human being. The most you could hope for is a massively oversized version of the rockem-sockem robots uppercut.

These are valid points, and while I do want to see melee in the game, I absolutely want it to be restricted to mechs with melee weapons. Otherwise, it'll be very hard to balance. And how would kicking even work in a game like this? I know some people feel like all mechs with hand actuators should be able to punch, but that's not really a good way of balancing it.

When I think about melee, I'm talking about the Hatamoto Chi, the Axman, the Hatchetman and similar mechs. Mechs with weapons that you actually have to equip in the Mech-lab. Even the Yen Lo Wang should equip claws if it was supposed to use them in melee, I think. Otherwise, it'd be too hard to balance. And you would have to make a kicking animation for a Dire Wolf. Need I say more?

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 06 January 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

These are valid points, and while I do want to see melee in the game, I absolutely want it to be restricted to mechs with melee weapons. Otherwise, it'll be very hard to balance. And how would kicking even work in a game like this? I know some people feel like all mechs with hand actuators should be able to punch, but that's not really a good way of balancing it.

When I think about melee, I'm talking about the Hatamoto Chi, the Axman, the Hatchetman and similar mechs. Mechs with weapons that you actually have to equip in the Mech-lab. Even the Yen Lo Wang should equip claws if it was supposed to use them in melee, I think. Otherwise, it'd be too hard to balance. And you would have to make a kicking animation for a Dire Wolf. Need I say more?

Try to imagine any of the mechs in the game trying to do that, and then try to imagine a Dire Whale doing it...

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 06 January 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Try to imagine any of the mechs in the game trying to do that, and then try to imagine a Dire Whale doing it...

What, no showtime kick?

[Brody319]

FupDup, on 06 January 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Try to imagine any of the mechs in the game trying to do that, and then try to imagine a Dire Whale doing it...

Its so beautiful!

[SkoII]

Kiiyor, on 06 January 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Oh God I want melee, if only to pilot one of my favourite rides:




"My love for you is like a truck, Berserker"

You must tell me the name of this beautiful thing

* oh its a berserker redesign :'(

Edited by SkoII, 10 January 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Its being worked on how far along or how slow the development is going you would have to ask RUSS at the next town hall meeting.

If it does come into play it opens up the hatchetman and axman.

How would it work? 3 main ways:

Option 1: I press a button and the weapon swings inflicting damage on impact. All weapon in the arm would go into recharge for the duration of the melee action. (this is to prevent alpha attack swings. You can't punch a guy and shoot a gun at the same time.

Option 2: What's called the click and swing. Mostly used in Elder scrolls games were you click down on the button and swing using your mouse to slash right to left or up and down.

Option 3. All automated once you get into range it just happens.

There will be rules just like in table top if you have a weapon in a arm recharging you cant swing. Swing would make your weapons in the arm go into full cool down. If a kick is added your speed would be reduced to 40kph while the kick is active. Just like if your other leg was broken.

Hand actuators would allow you to punch. So for example the Cent arm would come into play because you could punch people with it.

The 3 main issues we like to see added.
Melee weapons
Destroyable terrain
Mask

[girl on fire]

melee

please, no.

I know it was in TT but it will look stupid and function terribly. Why on earth would anyone ever want their giant robot to melee anything when they could instead use lasers, missiles or some ballistic weapon?

[Jaeger Gonzo]

FupDup, on 06 January 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Try to imagine any of the mechs in the game trying to do that, and then try to imagine a Dire Whale doing it...

You clearly have zero knowledge about battletech IP.
In BT we dont do Kung-Fu.
Every mek is a weapon in itself. Many, many, many meks are specially designed for melee. Dragon, Charger, Banshee and all loved melee weapons meks like Axeman, Berserker, No-Dashi, Ti-Tsiang and countless more. But every mek can do basic melee.
Melee is integral part of BT lore and implement it would be the best thing that can happen to this game ever. Those few who dont want to play BT game go somewhare else. Plenty of robo games around, possible even better then this.
People love that meks and they want to bay them and thats the main reason why one day they will be in. Nothing will cause more new interest to this game and folks coming back then melee module.

[The Wakelord]

SkoII, on 05 January 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

So it's been two years since the last thread that mentioned anything about the subject. I dont know if people gave up trying to ask, or they got tired of the mw game fans not wanting to understand what faithfulness to the table top that started it all is.

It comes up almost monthly, not sure where you pulled the 2 year figure from. I'm getting pretty good at replying to this thread (in its incarnations).

• Melee would be super cool
  
• Melee would be, most likely, exceedingly unfair (see "yah i want 2 smash those lights with my Atlas!!!!!!" posts) for lights & lower mediums
  
• Melee would require a very large number of new, fully body animations (a punch is not just an arm movement, a punch involves pivoting shoulders, hip, knee) [many mechs have the same skeleton & rigging, just a different model. Designing a model isn't too bad]
  
• The time they spend on this is time not getting new mechs (like Hatchetman sans axe), new maps or bug fixes, as PGI seems to be an "our entire team is working on only this" type of business
  
• Melee would increase everyone's ping as the server has to be much more careful about collision mechanics (that's one of the reasons they removed it)
  
• It would be super cool to hamstring things in a locust, or punch things in a centurion

Edited by The Wakelord, 11 January 2015 - 12:42 AM.

[Kiiyor]

SkoII, on 10 January 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

You must tell me the name of this beautiful thing

* oh its a berserker redesign :'(

In the fluff for this re imagining, the mech-gineers hit a major stumbling block with the slow speed of resetting the hatchet in early designs. They solved this by adding jumpjets to the hatchet arm.

ROCKET HATCHET.

TAKE MY MONEY PGI.

[SkoII]

The Wakelord, on 11 January 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

It comes up almost monthly, not sure where you pulled the 2 year figure from. I'm getting pretty good at replying to this thread (in its incarnations).

• Melee would be super cool
  
• Melee would be, most likely, exceedingly unfair (see "yah i want 2 smash those lights with my Atlas!!!!!!" posts) for lights & lower mediums
  
• Melee would require a very large number of new, fully body animations (a punch is not just an arm movement, a punch involves pivoting shoulders, hip, knee) [many mechs have the same skeleton & rigging, just a different model. Designing a model isn't too bad]
  
• The time they spend on this is time not getting new mechs (like Hatchetman sans axe), new maps or bug fixes, as PGI seems to be an "our entire team is working on only this" type of business
  
• Melee would increase everyone's ping as the server has to be much more careful about collision mechanics (that's one of the reasons they removed it)
  
• It would be super cool to hamstring things in a locust, or punch things in a centurion

the search function only gave hits from 2 years ago and further

[wanderer]

Quote

Why on earth would anyone ever want their giant robot to melee anything when they could instead use lasers, missiles or some ballistic weapon?

This.

Running off the edge of a high chunk of Canyon and headshotting you with 60-ton jolly boots of doom.

Edited by wanderer, 15 January 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[SkoII]

girl on fire, on 10 January 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

melee

please, no.

I know it was in TT but it will look stupid and function terribly. Why on earth would anyone ever want their giant robot to melee anything when they could instead use lasers, missiles or some ballistic weapon?

Its like you would ask a man why he would eat steak when he could subsist off of protein supplements.
Why an artist would take brush to canvas to show a landscape, when a simple picture would suffice. Why live when you can subsist.

Because close combat is an art my friend, the roar of your machine as it charges towards the enemy to deal death first hand, well that's nothing a laserboat could ever give you.

[Alpha Zulu Tango]

Well, anyone who played Alien vs Predator games likely knows that the most fun part was blasting aliens which came running for you from any angle. When the round count on your pulse rifle went low a little panic started to pick up. There are many other examples like HL2 etc but the point remains; anything coming at you wanting to rip the guts out of you will feel much more than just shooting.

Think of that feeling would come too when you see an atlas strolling towards you tanking, eating all that fire while you back up away. Then with slow deliberate moves he grabs your arm which is nothing more than a barrel sticking out and punches his fist to your cockpit and boom you go.

[Andi Nagasia]

even rockem sockem robots type Punches(Hand/Claw),
and simple Vertical slashes with weapons(Axe/Sword),
could be animated with out much trouble,

that said there is allot to with implementation,
1) we need collisions(if you teleport half way into a punch, well you know),
2) basic Melee animations(simple 2-3 joint arm movements could do to start),
3) restrictions(you cant fire Arm weapons when you punch with that arm),
4) weapons(Axes Swords Torches all have a certain weight)
so its very possible, but not until we get other things,

[ForceCommanderHairg3l]

I just wanna beable to have a pipe in my left hand on my atlas and shove it up a direwolf's ass

[TripleEhBeef]

Practically speaking, we should get all the other issues sorted out before we look at melee combat.

HOWEVER, nothing would make me happier than legging a Timber Wolf, smashing it onto the ground with my Orion's big meaty arms, and then curbstomping its cockpit while yelling "WHERE IS YOUR CLANTECH NOW?!!!!!".

Also, just imagine a Commando coming up behind a Stalker and punching it in the legs fifty times.

Edited by TripleEhBeef, 20 January 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[TLBFestus]

SkoII, on 05 January 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

So it's been two years since the last thread that mentioned anything about the subject. I dont know if people gave up trying to ask, or they got tired of the mw game fans not wanting to understand what faithfulness to the table top that started it all is.

etc., etc., etc.

Speaking just for myself I do not want melee in this game. It would turn into a a gigantic tardfest. We have enough idiots playing as it is.

[wanderer]

Being able to bash your head in with a fist will not reduce the spazzing pilot population.

But I guarantee you people would want to play the close game more often. Even on big maps.