18 replies to this topic

[Faith McCarron]

Having fought in CW drops for a few days now, I wanted to put some simple thoughts about tactics down, because with our smaller numbers, we quite frankly need to be more efficient than we currently are. I've been part of WAY too many drops that have bogged down due to flat out poor overall tactics, especially on the attack.

Attacking: The formula is actually pretty simple. In your first wave, stack overwhelming weight behind a single push. Mass behind the gate, then push as one. DO NOT stop to engage defenders, just drop turrets and generators. Massed ECM and AMS are helpful.

Save your light rush for later waves (YES, I'm looking at you, Russians). I've dropped 3 or 4 times with TCAF and you guys especially like to light rush in the first wave, it always bogs down, it always gets cut to pieces, and the drop goes FUBAR after that. Rush with DDC's and Crabs FIRST, then you can send your light wave in to finish the job.

Defense: Defend in DEPTH. It may seem counter intuitive, but the name of the game on defense isnt to kill enemy mechs as much as it is to blunt momentum. The second you knock the energy out of an enemy rush, you've won that wave. Mopping up the kills is secondary. That means identifying the spot of the push and arraying in waves to stop it. The first line should be body blocking, countering ECM, locking targets and legging. The last line should be DPSing and playing goalkeeper.

[ShiroganeTakeru]

Not all Russians are like TCAF, comrade.

[Red October911]

Faith McCarron, on 22 December 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Having fought in CW drops for a few days now, I wanted to put some simple thoughts about tactics down, because with our smaller numbers, we quite frankly need to be more efficient than we currently are. I've been part of WAY too many drops that have bogged down due to flat out poor overall tactics, especially on the attack.

Attacking: The formula is actually pretty simple. In your first wave, stack overwhelming weight behind a single push. Mass behind the gate, then push as one. DO NOT stop to engage defenders, just drop turrets and generators. Massed ECM and AMS are helpful.

Save your light rush for later waves (YES, I'm looking at you, Russians). I've dropped 3 or 4 times with TCAF and you guys especially like to light rush in the first wave, it always bogs down, it always gets cut to pieces, and the drop goes FUBAR after that. Rush with DDC's and Crabs FIRST, then you can send your light wave in to finish the job.

Defense: Defend in DEPTH. It may seem counter intuitive, but the name of the game on defense isnt to kill enemy mechs as much as it is to blunt momentum. The second you knock the energy out of an enemy rush, you've won that wave. Mopping up the kills is secondary. That means identifying the spot of the push and arraying in waves to stop it. The first line should be body blocking, countering ECM, locking targets and legging. The last line should be DPSing and playing goalkeeper.

Yup sounds about right, idk if the russians are as crazy as you say, but those tactics ar definately the way to do it

[Faith McCarron]

I'm only speaking from my own experience with the TCAF. I've dropped with them maybe 4 or 5 times, they always light rush in the first wave, it gets cut to pieces, and then the drop goes to hell. The last time I dropped with them we even got pushed back to the dropship.

[_____]

If you see the incoming changes today (22nd) PGI is actually trying to stop the IS light rush, which is extremely effective. 140 tons allowed you to take 4 SPL Firestarters which rips apart generators and turrets like crazy while not being able to be hit. If you do it right, 48 Firestarters in 4 waves is very hard to stop. Now they'll be forced to take a Cicada or something on the last rush.

[Tarl Cabot]

Faith McCarron, on 22 December 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Defense: Defend in DEPTH. It may seem counter intuitive, but the name of the game on defense isnt to kill enemy mechs as much as it is to blunt momentum. The second you knock the energy out of an enemy rush, you've won that wave. Mopping up the kills is secondary

For the faster mechs, LEG THEM...then you can mop them up. If you do not leg them to slow them down then most will make it to the generators

Just saying...it drives me nuts when I see 4 mechs firing on a FS and hitting everywhere but the legs, and zip, there it goes right pass them.

[ShinVector]

A Streak medium or a Streak Cat would probably due well to quickly put a stop light rushes.

[Faith McCarron]

ShinVector, on 22 December 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

A Streak medium or a Streak Cat would probably due well to quickly put a stop light rushes.

Streak boats are a great light killer in the pug queue, but they make a poor choice for a CW drop deck. For one, streaks hit randomly, which is the last thing you want. You want to be able to leg a light quickly and move on. Secondly, they are WAY too specialized. On the defense, the would be completely useless against any kind of heavy rush, and they have very little range. Remember, this isn't skirmish where you want to go around and run down the lights, you want to stop as many mechs as possible, as quickly as possible, which streaks are quite possibly the least efficient weapon at doing.

[B0oN]

Bring your wubby mechs to the fore, they tend to kill lights by the score .

You can figure out the rest I guess ^^

[ShinVector]

Faith McCarron, on 23 December 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

Streak boats are a great light killer in the pug queue, but they make a poor choice for a CW drop deck. For one, streaks hit randomly, which is the last thing you want. You want to be able to leg a light quickly and move on. Secondly, they are WAY too specialized. On the defense, the would be completely useless against any kind of heavy rush, and they have very little range. Remember, this isn't skirmish where you want to go around and run down the lights, you want to stop as many mechs as possible, as quickly as possible, which streaks are quite possibly the least efficient weapon at doing.

Regardless having just one would be pretty decent at disabling lights, if you know the light rush is coming.
I see the applications.

[Faith McCarron]

1) How does it "disable" lights?

2) How do you know the light rush is coming?

3) What does it do after the light rush is over?

This is lone wolf pug queue thinking. We need to be more objective focused for CW drops.

[Orkdung]

What you describe are the tactics we use. We are only focused on objectives (gate(s)/turrets/generators/Omega).
If you get a few kills on the hump to Omega, so be it.
DDC rush 1st wave.
Get lighter with last push using light jump mechs to get inside Omega for "protection" and the kill.

Defense as described above, layered/ depth with counter ecm.

TCAF, not sure how you can light zerg rush anymore with the 3 generators.

[BlakeAteIt]

What's probably even more important than the specific tactics you use is that your team is on the same page.

Mixed tonnage waves have some advantages if you can work together while you push. There is also the trouble that if everyone in a faction does it the same way, it becomes easier for the opposition to counter.

[Orkdung]

A bigger issue Ive seen with mixed drops is the lack of coordination. If someone takes command, listen to that person.

Too many times we have folks running off to Alpha when Beta is the target, etc..etc...
If you do not have your unit ready to fight, mobbed up under ECM, as soon as the gate opens you'll just be shot up piece-meal.

[trashcanman]

BlakeAteIt, on 23 December 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

What's probably even more important than the specific tactics you use is that your team is on the same page.

Yup, lack of coordination is the number one reason why a given mixed unit attack turns into a disaster.

Orkdung, on 23 December 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

TCAF, not sure how you can light zerg rush anymore with the 3 generators.

Not saying I disagree necessarily, but I have seen a wave 1 light rush take out all three generators on Boreal, leaving the team 3 more waves to take out Omega.

Edited by trashcanman, 23 December 2014 - 05:51 PM.

[ShinVector]

Faith McCarron, on 23 December 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

1) How does it "disable" lights?

2) How do you know the light rush is coming?

3) What does it do after the light rush is over?

This is lone wolf pug queue thinking. We need to be more objective focused for CW drops.

1. Unfortunately more relevant for Clans with their Streak6 Crows... They can kill in 1 or totally disable lights in 2 shots.
2. On defence there will always be a light coming to the base.
3. What else but patrol the base.

Remember I am not say that EVERYONE being carrying a Streak Mech. It could be that dude that can't use direct fire weapons for the life of him. Nor can he live long enough to figure how to do damage without getting killed himself.
Now instead of being an ineffective.. He could be useful by being the last line of defence disabling ECM with BAP and use anti lag shield Streak missiles... I am telling lights pilot would want streaks to be in base while we are doing objective runs... You simple can't dodge Streaks.

Think you being too rigid... You have to remember there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
If everyone could use AC40 and Gauss and pin point META... They should be using be...
But this is real life with differences in skill due to various factors.

Edit: Example of a drop deck for Uncle Bob.
1. 85 Ton - LRM Stalker
2. 65 Tons - LRM Catapult
3. 65 Tons - Streak Cat (Base Defence with priority to enemy lights.)
4. 25 Tons - ECM Streak Mando (Base Defence with priority to enemy lights.)

Edited by ShinVector, 23 December 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[Faith McCarron]

I'm all for individuality, but it's helpful to have some semblance of structure in place when dropping, especially in the pug queue.

[Gonta]

Hell, sorry guys for lost drops

Usually we use 1st - long drop, 2nd close push, 3th & 4th light zerg

[Bad Russian villian Cherkasov]

Gonta, on 25 December 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Usually we use 1st - long drop, 2nd close push, 3th & 4th light zerg

Yup. Zerg rush is always the last option when we fight in large drops. Maybe you saw our small groups in CW zerg rushing - they could use this tactics as a reliable way to clean the path to Omega. But when we fight in 12s, we always have mixed drops from wave to wave with emphasis on mechs suited in certain battle situation.
As I said earlier, our tactics may vary depending on commanders, number of TCAF players in a drop and on curent situation on the battlefield. What do I want to say with that? I want to say that it might be a bad luck if you have really seen us zerg rushing from 1st to 2nd wave, and when we drop in full groups, we act much more elaborately and try to gain as much options and possibilities for advantage from current situation on the battlefield as we can.
I don't think it's a good idea to discuss the fine points of tactics here, on public forums, because topics are avaliable for everyone here, including clans and house Davion.

Edited by CherkasovRUS, 07 January 2015 - 11:58 AM.