18 replies to this topic

[CygnusX7]

Whether we annihilated the enemy with our Stormcrows and Thunderbolts or we weren't capable of taking them down- It's our own fault.

There are naturals and there are those of us who are mediocre even after years of play (me).
Other than being TK'd lets blame our selves rather than the mechs.

And create more troll threads which this one is guilty of. But I did have a point!

Edited by CygnusX7, 08 January 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Kensaisama]

Since no one else has responded

Because "Humans"

[Wolfwood592]

Kensaisama, on 08 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Since no one else has responded

Because "Humans"

+1

that and the internet "shield" of power

[Lily from animove]

CygnusX7, on 08 January 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Whether we annihilated the enemy with our Stormcrows and Thunderbolts or we weren't capable of taking them down- It's our own fault.

There are naturals and there are those of us who are mediocre even after years of play (me).
Other than being TK'd lets blame our selves rather than the mechs.

And create more troll threads which this one is guilty of. But I did have a point!

but you can't fix people, unlike mech imbalance.

[Jolly Llama]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

but you can't fix people, unlike mech imbalance.

And since player skill is the cause of the perceived mech imbalance, this issue will never get resolved. Unskilled forum whiners are the basis of mech imbalance. Their lack of ability causes them to cry about weapon systems and mechs to the point that they have been nerfed to complete stupidity. We have the ability to mount many different things on mechs and the unwillingness to mount effective weapon setups that enhance the skills possessed by the pilot has lead many to believe there is imbalance when, in fact, their skill level and setup is the real problem.

[Lily from animove]

geodeath, on 08 January 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

And since player skill is the cause of the perceived mech imbalance, this issue will never get resolved. Unskilled forum whiners are the basis of mech imbalance. Their lack of ability causes them to cry about weapon systems and mechs to the point that they have been nerfed to complete stupidity. We have the ability to mount many different things on mechs and the unwillingness to mount effective weapon setups that enhance the skills possessed by the pilot has lead many to believe there is imbalance when, in fact, their skill level and setup is the real problem.

No, player skill is not the caue for imbalance, this is so stupid, (sry rly) thats liek saying, you could not win the dragrce in your bike because you are a less skilled river than the guy in the drag racing car.

we had the chassis challange and it dragged all the high skilled players under the same conditions but in different emchs and those results were very clear which mechs are bad and which not.

here take a engine 150 commando and a single flamer and beat me in a TBR pls, because obviously playerskill matters.

if you can win one out of 100 matches you are right and I will never argue again with you.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 January 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Jolly Llama]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

No, player skill is not the caue for imbalance, this is so stupid, (sry rly) thats liek saying, you could not win the dragrce in your bike because you are a less skilled river than the guy in the drag racing car.

we had the chassis challange and it dragged all the high skilled players under the same conditions but in different emchs and those results were very clear which mechs are bad and which not.

here take a engine 150 commando and a single flamer and beat me in a TBR pls, because obviously playerskill matters.

if you can win one out of 100 matches you are right and I will never argue again with you.

You obviously missed the part about bad setups as well. A flamer on a a commando is a bad set up. This lack of attention to detail is the cause of bad setups. Couple that with low skill level and you get a forum whining equipment blamer.

[Lily from animove]

geodeath, on 08 January 2015 - 12:38 PM, said:

You obviously missed the part about bad setups as well. A flamer on a a commando is a bad set up. This lack of attention to detail is the cause of bad setups. Couple that with low skill level and you get a forum whining equipment blamer.

and some mechs by nature are bad and can not make a truly good build compared to another mech. a TBr will obsolete a gargoyle always because a gargoylse setup will always be bad compared to a TBR.

And this is why mechs are unbalanced because some can not make competitve setups at all.

if we wuld play MW 3 the only imbalance is tonnage and the emchs shape, because anything else was freely adjustable

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 January 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[Jolly Llama]

I have 115 mechs and have had differing levels of success with all of them. Usually, the level of success increases as I develop a build that matches my play style. The more I play each one of them, the better I get with it. I don't complain that I got iced by Clan lasers in my Shadowhawk, I change my setup and close range so that you can't pick me apart. This is how you get better at the game. I don't go on the forums and start screaming Clan is OP. That is how you become a whiner.

[DEMAX51]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

No, player skill is not the caue for imbalance...

I think you must have missed the several dozen "LRMs are OP!" posts, then.

Sometimes 'Mechs and weapons are actually imbalanced, sometimes differences in player skill leads people to believe that they are.

[Lily from animove]

geodeath, on 08 January 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

I have 115 mechs and have had differing levels of success with all of them. Usually, the level of success increases as I develop a build that matches my play style. The more I play each one of them, the better I get with it. I don't complain that I got iced by Clan lasers in my Shadowhawk, I change my setup and close range so that you can't pick me apart. This is how you get better at the game. I don't go on the forums and start screaming Clan is OP. That is how you become a whiner.

so? GAR and TBR are balanced? then tell me pls what tactic can the GAR do to actively be better thwan the TBR? there is nothing. Some mechs are worse than others no matter what setup you will be using. No matter how long you play them. Yes when you can get better and better in a mech, you increase your skill and can outskill others, but would you meet someone on your same skilllevel in the other emch he would beta you most of the time.

play 100 matches in a Summoenr and 100 in a TBR
play 100 in a Nova and 100 in a SCR

then tell me they are balanced.
SCR requires half the skill to get better results and when you master it and your skills in it this gets just a bigger nd bigger gap instead of being smaller. The SCR is the better mech and has the higher potential, and the more you use both the more oyu are able to max out their potential. And the gap is not the 5t that the SCR is heavier its the whole gap pf all advantages the SCR has over a Nova.

DEMAX51, on 08 January 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

I think you must have missed the several dozen "LRMs are OP!" posts, then.

Sometimes 'Mechs and weapons are actually imbalanced, sometimes differences in player skill leads people to believe that they are.

lrms are not op, that is of coure a claim of newbies not knowing how to deal with them, but if someone tells em a TBra nd a GR are balanced WOW, just WOW

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

but you can't fix people, unlike mech imbalance.

However, how do you go about fixing balanced mechs, when you can't fix human imbalance?

Basically you can't just create an artificial imbalance in a mech because some very skilled players are able to kill some very unskilled players either.

[norus]

Viktor Drake, on 08 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

However, how do you go about fixing balanced mechs, when you can't fix human imbalance?

Basically you can't just create an artificial imbalance in a mech because some very skilled players are able to kill some very unskilled players either.

Are people consistently getting higher numbers, wins damage etc in those mechs than in other comparable weight mechs across a whole playerbase? That's a decent indicator right there. PGI should have the data to see things that we can't, such as how much a certain mech type is used and the average numbers it can achieve across a playerbase. If they don't well then that's just shoddy design on their part.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

play 100 matches in a Summoenr and 100 in a TBR
play 100 in a Nova and 100 in a SCR

then tell me they are balanced.

Actually if I just look at my raw stats, my Summoner is pretty keeping pace with my Timber Wolf and my Nova is just slightly behind my Stormcrow in performance.

Point is that while I tend to agree that my Timber Wolf and Stormcrow are a hell of alot more fun to play, the numbers are coming in fairly balanced. Now whether this might be because I am forced to play alot more skillfully in my Summoner and Nova to be successful and able to be more lazy with my Timber Wolf and Stormcrow to achieve the same success, I don't know, but it is still a fact that my numbers are comparable despite their reputations and even my general feelings that the Nova and Summoner, suck.

[FupDup]

Kensaisama, on 08 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

---
Because "Humans"

[Lily from animove]

Viktor Drake, on 08 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

However, how do you go about fixing balanced mechs, when you can't fix human imbalance?

Basically you can't just create an artificial imbalance in a mech because some very skilled players are able to kill some very unskilled players either.

norus, on 08 January 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Are people consistently getting higher numbers, wins damage etc in those mechs than in other comparable weight mechs across a whole playerbase? That's a decent indicator right there. PGI should have the data to see things that we can't, such as how much a certain mech type is used and the average numbers it can achieve across a playerbase. If they don't well then that's just shoddy design on their part.

this, I mean seriosuly, what kind of stupid nonsense argumentation do you pull out there, sound smore like philosophical words than true analytics. The chassis challange was much likely earasing the skill component, because it gatehred equally skilled and dediacted palyers, and yet it showed very clearly the grouping of emchs and they capabilities.

https://docs.google....4vp4/edit#gid=0

have some nice list I made to analyse soem stuff on my own. Some mechs are indefinitely hard or impossible to bring above specific borders, while others erach them totally regulary and easily. And this is not the human imbalance doing it.

Viktor Drake, on 08 January 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Actually if I just look at my raw stats, my Summoner is pretty keeping pace with my Timber Wolf and my Nova is just slightly behind my Stormcrow in performance.

Point is that while I tend to agree that my Timber Wolf and Stormcrow are a hell of alot more fun to play, the numbers are coming in fairly balanced. Now whether this might be because I am forced to play alot more skillfully in my Summoner and Nova to be successful and able to be more lazy with my Timber Wolf and Stormcrow to achieve the same success, I don't know, but it is still a fact that my numbers are comparable despite their reputations and even my general feelings that the Nova and Summoner, suck.

and thats the proof, because huamns do imprve untila specific amount of confidence. and Thats why ou do nt reach the TBR's or SCR far further than the other both, If you hoever would put the same effort into both chassis, the outcome wouod be by far more different. See the chassis challange where people actualyl tried to max out as much as they could.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 January 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Carcass23]

LRM's are OP.
Splat-Cats are OP
Pop-Tarting is OP
Dual-Gauss is OP
Arty-Strikes are OP
ERPPC's are OP
ECM is OP
Raven-3L is OP
Timberwolves are OP
Stormcrow is OP
Thunderbolt is OP
THE CLANS ARE OP
Organized teams are OP
Tactics are OP
Paul and Russ are OP

None of these take skill!
Skilled players use lasers!
Only lasers!
Your mech is a crutch! It's EZ-mode!
I'm not gonna be happy until I can stand in the middle of an open field and kill every enemy, single handedly IN A BRAWL with my lasers!
My mech is dripping with lasers, standard lasers.
Pulse lasers are OP

[Angel of Annihilation]

norus, on 08 January 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Are people consistently getting higher numbers, wins damage etc in those mechs than in other comparable weight mechs across a whole playerbase? That's a decent indicator right there. PGI should have the data to see things that we can't, such as how much a certain mech type is used and the average numbers it can achieve across a playerbase. If they don't well then that's just shoddy design on their part.

Exactly but there are alot of other things to consider as well. For example, I truly believe that in general Clan pilots are much more dedicated to this game. Now that doesn't mean that their aren't very skilled and dedicated IS players, rather it means that the Clan's tend to attracted more of the better players.

First lore makes it pretty clear that individually, Clan pilots are generally superior plus how many competitive players do you know that would rather associate themselves with being a run of the mill Athenian Hoplite rather than a Spartan Super Soldier. Sparta is kind of what the Clans represent, an elite class of genetically bread super soldier trained from birth to fight which caters heavily to the competitive players ego. Also being competitive is usually a requirement for being skilled because it is that competitive personality which drives them to be more skilled at a game, any game.

Second, Lore again. Clan lore has them piloting extremely superior mechs against inferior IS tech. This creates a "feeling" of superiority whether Clan mechs are OP or not which again appeals to competitive players egos.

Third, Lore again. Clan mechs are suppose to be OP so whether they are or not, they are or so many competitive players are going to feel from a psychology perspective. Remember something doesn't have to be true to be perceived as true and if people perceive something to be true then it is true despite all evidence to the contrary.

Fourth, all the threads about how OP Clan mechs are even when 3/4 those people creating those threads haven't piloted Clan mechs or chose not too. Clan mechs have the reputation of being OP and maybe they were initial at release, but whether it is true now or not, reputation is going to attract alot of competitive players.

Fifth, Clan mechs require a much higher investment both in real money and in in game currency which obviously requires a higher level of dedication to the game to even be able to own them.

So in a nutshell, all these factors and probably a few not listed have the effect of drawing more of the skilled, competitive player base toward piloting Clan mechs which means that even if they managed to achieve perfect balance between IS and Clan mechs, there is still a skill imbalance between IS and Clan players at least when your talking over the total population. For example you might have 65% of the highest skilled players being Clans and 45% being IS and because of this, the Clan mechs will APPEAR to be OP when it is actually better piloting that is making superior.

So do you see the issues I am getting at? Alot of factors have to be looked at and the one factor they cannot control, not even in the slightest is player skill and I truly believe most of the OP complaints are up against that wall, not any actual imbalances in the mechs.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 08 January 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Viktor Drake, on 08 January 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

So do you see the issues I am getting at? Alot of factors have to be looked at and the one factor they cannot control, not even in the slightest is player skill and I truly believe most of the OP complaints are up against that wall, not any actual imbalances in the mechs.

No thats not entirely the case, I mean why are most clanenrs using TBR's SCR and DWF's? shouldn't they also use KFX, ADR and Novas to the same degree? or warhawks? Why don't they? because these mechs aren't balanced.
And even if there is less skill across the IS, why are there soem IS emchs not piloted while others are so omipresent? if your theory would be true, then at least clanners would have a more equally distributed mechusage. and then IS as well, and the imbalance would be between IS and clan, which is not the case.