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Buff The Lrms


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#21 Davers

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 06:30 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 11 January 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:


15 damage per Short Range Missile/90 per SRM6?

10 damage per Long Range Missile?

Hitting every hitbox on small mechs?


The forums would be flooded.

Yet it's funny how people only complained about certain chassis, not the weapon overall. "Oh, the A1 is totally broken", but 4 SRM6s on other mechs were considered fine. Dat perception, yo. ;)

What LRMs need is a ground up revamp. Same with ECM. Same with…a lot of things I guess.

#22 Shiroi Tsuki

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:01 PM

View PostYokiLin, on 11 January 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:


I can tell that you are not a light pilot. You do know that LRMs discourage light pilots the most, especially the new ones? No matter how fast lights run we can't outrun the speed and range of the lrm missiles which are freaking locked on to us by a PGI aimbot. The very situation you talked about where only 10% players play lights started around the last time PGI buffed LRMs.

The Jenners, Firestarters, etc, (basically all the ones without ECM) are the best of the lights because they have enough firepower to make a difference. The lights with ECM are either fairly weak (Pirate's Bane), have too little firepower (Spider-5D), or is too damn slow (Kit Fox). I mean, Kit Foxes can do their job, but they don't allow you to undergo hit and run adventures full of action behind enemy lines and can be frustratingly hard to get away if caught alone far away from your team, though if you are not a little far from your team, what's the point of a light? Pirate's Bane is too easy to die (well in my opinion anyways), and while I can cause some havoc with a Spider-5D the TTK (time to kill) is horrible and it's too likely that my target called his friends or LRMs over before I can kill him (plus if it's a light vs light both of us could get bombed to death by LRM before doing anything).

Besides, ECM lights are kind of screwed these days since if they try to go assassinate some LRM boats, the LRM boats might have BAP, and with it's recent buff which increased it's ECM countering range to 280m... ECM is just pointless. So instead of the lights being the counter to LRM boats, it's the other way around. Not to mention that low signal thing which warn enemies of nearby unfriendly ECM.

SO, now that I talked about why ECM lights sucked, I would like to point how that if LRMs are buffed even more, any lights that engage an enemy mech, in a place without cover from LRM (which is 90% of a map), and got spotted which just be annihilated. Not that right now LRM isn't a problem for lights, but at least we can still get a chance to run to safety once spotted, with maybe a lrm hit or two if unlucky, which usually won't be enough to kill you.

I think that you can get why I have no idea where did you come up with the notion that better LRMs means more lights. Even a little more of a buff can screw lights over much harder since even a little buff can have a large impact as we have to run into cover in a matter of seconds and we cannot afford the hits on our light armor.

If anything I support nerfing LRM since the level of skill LRM boats require can be more or less achieved by a simple AI (follow team, lock on stuff by hovering over it, right click unless no clear line of sight, don't show up on the front lines in major battles, repeat) while lights perform the unsung duties of spotting, scouting, assassination, enemy division, and distraction. Not many people even realize how important distracting and splitting up the enemy is. On the other hand, any hits LRM boats achieve depended on if the other side remembers to stay near cover and not on the skill of the LRM boat.

After a year with this game I can tell you that the only thing worth sticking around for any long period of time is the lights and most definitely not the LRM boats.

I'm mainly a Lght/Heavy pilot, the SDR-5K is my BEST Mech of all time
Edit: As much as I want to play with my Heavies, I couldn't because the Heavies are always at 50%, which kinda forces me to play with my Spidees

Edited by Shiroi Tsuki, 11 January 2015 - 09:05 PM.


#23 xXBagheeraXx

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:21 PM

Not sure if serious or trolling. If serous

NO.

I just single handedly ruined an entire team with an lrm mech. They had at least 2ecm mechs. We had none, and it was in caustic valley. Wanna know how I did it? Narcs. We only had 3 lrm boats, me being one of them and every time I narced something It got nuked. first narc a centurion vanished, second narc, i got thier ecm Atlas that stick his head out too long. Third one completly ruined a banshee. after all thier ecm died it was a turkey shoot. Even got a UAV off and got even more guys killed. I was the only one that was packing narc tho, and if I had been in any other mech in that situation we would have gotten rolled. Nearly all our assault class mechs were LRM boats.

To all those that say LRM mechs require no skill, if i had sat in the back pressing R and clicking like you claim lrm mechs do, we would have gotten rolled. There is a huge difference between boatin lrms and providing fire support. I go and spot/tag/narc my own targets, screw standing in the back waiting for my damage to come to me.

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 11 January 2015 - 09:23 PM.


#24 Brody319

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:36 PM

I think it would be better for LRMs to always be fired in 5 missile clusters regardless of slots.

So an LRM 20 would fire 4 clusters of 5 missiles.

This removes that stupid a bunch of tiny launchers is better than one big launchers even if they are shooting the same number of missiles. The problem with larger launchers is you increase the number of missiles that fail to hit the target, wasting ammo and damage.

Nextly we need more standardized missile tonnages and slots.

4 LRM 5s should take up the same tonnage and slots as a LRM 20. There is no reason for this to not be in the game. The only reason the Board Game had it, was because LRMs simply hit their target and could hit multiple enemies.


Finally add in LAMS and improve the regular AMS.

#25 Black Arachne

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:41 PM

LRMS's definitely need a buff - the battlefield of late is pretty much lasers from clans and PPC/AC's from the IS

#26 zortesh

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 10:51 PM

View PostBlack Arachne, on 11 January 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

LRMS's definitely need a buff - the battlefield of late is pretty much lasers from clans and PPC/AC's from the IS


I think the recent abandonment of lrmboats is based on the perception of erppc thunderbolts having supplanted them as the easymode mechs in most peoples minds.

That and the relative abundance of ecm mechs recently, or since ecm hellbringers came out, seeing teams without 1 or normally more ecm mechs is very rare.

Plus the realative worthlessness of innersphere lrmboats in cw, since they tend to be slow, have poor survive-ability, and lack any ability to push into and through things...


I still do well in lrmboats thou, alot of 1300 dmg games lately as people have ceased taking lrms seriously recently

#27 Shiroi Tsuki

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 11:24 PM

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 11 January 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Not sure if serious or trolling. If serous

NO.

I just single handedly ruined an entire team with an lrm mech. They had at least 2ecm mechs. We had none, and it was in caustic valley. Wanna know how I did it? Narcs. We only had 3 lrm boats, me being one of them and every time I narced something It got nuked. first narc a centurion vanished, second narc, i got thier ecm Atlas that stick his head out too long. Third one completly ruined a banshee. after all thier ecm died it was a turkey shoot. Even got a UAV off and got even more guys killed. I was the only one that was packing narc tho, and if I had been in any other mech in that situation we would have gotten rolled. Nearly all our assault class mechs were LRM boats.

To all those that say LRM mechs require no skill, if i had sat in the back pressing R and clicking like you claim lrm mechs do, we would have gotten rolled. There is a huge difference between boatin lrms and providing fire support. I go and spot/tag/narc my own targets, screw standing in the back waiting for my damage to come to me.

Was this pug?
Congrats for team carrying.

#28 zortesh

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 11:49 PM

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 11 January 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Not sure if serious or trolling. If serous

NO.

I just single handedly ruined an entire team with an lrm mech. They had at least 2ecm mechs. We had none, and it was in caustic valley. Wanna know how I did it? Narcs. We only had 3 lrm boats, me being one of them and every time I narced something It got nuked. first narc a centurion vanished, second narc, i got thier ecm Atlas that stick his head out too long. Third one completly ruined a banshee. after all thier ecm died it was a turkey shoot. Even got a UAV off and got even more guys killed. I was the only one that was packing narc tho, and if I had been in any other mech in that situation we would have gotten rolled. Nearly all our assault class mechs were LRM boats.

To all those that say LRM mechs require no skill, if i had sat in the back pressing R and clicking like you claim lrm mechs do, we would have gotten rolled. There is a huge difference between boatin lrms and providing fire support. I go and spot/tag/narc my own targets, screw standing in the back waiting for my damage to come to me.


Good to hear someone else bringing there own narc and playing lrms aggressively, kudos to you brother.

#29 Black Arachne

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 11:56 PM

View Postzortesh, on 11 January 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

I think the recent abandonment of lrmboats is based on the perception of erppc thunderbolts having supplanted them as the easymode mechs in most peoples minds.

That and the relative abundance of ecm mechs recently, or since ecm hellbringers came out, seeing teams without 1 or normally more ecm mechs is very rare.

Plus the realative worthlessness of innersphere lrmboats in cw, since they tend to be slow, have poor survive-ability, and lack any ability to push into and through things...


I still do well in lrmboats thou, alot of 1300 dmg games lately as people have ceased taking lrms seriously recently


Agreed, Pin point weapons are easy mode. Point, Click, Damage Delivered

#30 Graugger

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 11:57 PM

Yes buff the LRMs and make my LRM 100 Mobile Turret even more insane.

I just love to wave at sniper Timberwolves as I watch them suddenly disappear in a bright cloud of explodification.

#31 El Bandito

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:02 AM

View PostGraugger, on 11 January 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

Yes buff the LRMs and make my LRM 100 Mobile Turret even more insane.

I just love to wave at sniper Timberwolves as I watch them suddenly disappear in a bright cloud of explodification.


More like they snipe your torso off, and then duck back before missiles even get there. ;)

#32 Karl Streiger

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:12 AM

the point is valid - but i wouldn't call it a buff.

LRMs together with Information Warfare need a complete overhaul.

Drop that PUG screwing ECM (it doesn't have any other effect - but not to allow communicate an enemy movement - without Voice)
Indirect LRM fire for more brain
increased viability for direct LRM fire.

well - don't think its a hard thing to do:
  • split LRM launchers - indirect fire and direct fire (choose one) - until multiple ammunition can be loaded
    • increased range, for indirect fire
    • more speed for direct fire
    • spread is for all launchers the same (doesn't make sense that the LRM 5 has less spread as the LRM 20
  • ECM - does not allow communication - and disallow unit specs
    • every Mech you see under ECM is green
    • you don't get target informations (weapons, variant) - but you get the type (for example Atlas - UH - Uniform Hotel)
    • even friendly units under ECM become green - so watch your fire
    • you can't share target information when under a bubble


#33 xXBagheeraXx

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:13 AM

View Postzortesh, on 11 January 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

Good to hear someone else bringing there own narc and playing lrms aggressively, kudos to you brother.


I get my face shot off more often than not but that was pretty much right place, right time, right map with an lrm mech made with defeating "peekaboo" tactics in mind.

#34 ollo

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:16 AM

View PostTechorse, on 10 January 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

What we need is a staring contest between LRM- and Gauss/AC/LL/PPC-boats.


FTFY. I wonder who will win, such tension!

#35 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:55 AM

The majority that doesn't care about LRMs says they are fine. And I agree, they don't bother me anymore so they are really fine for me!
But if someone wants to make an LRM boat work, well, that is where things get weird. What I would appreciate is keeping the current indirect fire as is but make it so that we can switch modes and for direct fire the missiles would take more direct path (and perhaps even fly faster), so that we can apply our damage faster.

#36 xXBagheeraXx

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 04:25 AM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 12 January 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

The majority that doesn't care about LRMs says they are fine. And I agree, they don't bother me anymore so they are really fine for me!
But if someone wants to make an LRM boat work, well, that is where things get weird. What I would appreciate is keeping the current indirect fire as is but make it so that we can switch modes and for direct fire the missiles would take more direct path (and perhaps even fly faster), so that we can apply our damage faster.



That isnt so much as a mode but more a type of weapon we will get later. ATM missiles and MRM missiles will behave like this. "Flat" lrms.





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