66 replies to this topic

[Basilisk222]

Kjudoon, on 12 January 2015 - 06:15 AM, said:

But we are told only twitch matters because twitch IS all skill!

Twitch doesn't account for heat mitigation, positioning, good mech building, or effective shot placement.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 12 January 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Yes and no. If you run up against a 12 man then yes because skill is what it will come down to considering they have an advantage in strategy.

Now as for the no it depends. You could end up on a team that will carry you and defending is always easier.

Edited by clownwarlord, 12 January 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Kilgorin Strom, on 12 January 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Twitch doesn't account for heat mitigation, positioning, good mech building, or effective shot placement.

I know. I'm mocking the many many arguments about 'skill-less' weapon and anyone who thinks that their style of play is the only style that is skilled or the only skill set that matters.

After seeing a previous post, I would love to see someone do up a "Madden" skill list for pilots of what is important and are actual skills in the game. Who knows? It could contribute in the future to better AIs.

[Felix7007]

Let me put your minds at rest. Skill is determined by:

How much of a match's outcome is determined by how well the players operate the game. It's the difference between playing best of 3 flipping a coin and chess. The coin flip requires no meaningful player input whereas chess requires only player input.

In the case of Community Warfare, the game requires skill but is limited in the sense that players only operate the game one way, Rushing. The game is not won by luck nor is it won automatically by the game itself (AI). There is skill organizing everyone for a rush and carrying it out successfully.

Edited by Felix7007, 12 January 2015 - 06:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 12 January 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

So you learned that from the cradle?
I know you learned in the "real life" with addition of TT tactics - (and thats the good about MWO - tactics that work in Real life - and TT work perfect in MWO) - but you have to consider that mabye half of the MWO don't have a idea how formations work - to begin with.

Actually yes. I did. Or at least shortly after. Sesame street used to have segments that taught about teamwork. My Mom made me put my toys away so I would know where they were, every sport and activity I participated in required some form of cooperation and coordination. So Yes, I did learn from a very early age.

[Ax2Grind]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Let me put your minds at rest. Skill is determined by:

How much of a match's outcome is determined by how well the players operate the game. It's the difference between playing best of 3 flipping a coin and chess. The coin flip requires no meaningful player input whereas chess requires only player input.

In the case of Community Warfare, the game requires skill but is limited in the sense that players only operate the game one way, Rushing. The game is not won by luck nor is it won automatically by the game itself (AI). There is skill organizing everyone for a rush and carrying it out successfully.

Folks don't just play this game by rushing. You are incorrect.

[Alexander Steel]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Let me put your minds at rest. Skill is determined by:

How much of a match's outcome is determined by how well the players operate the game. It's the difference between playing best of 3 flipping a coin and chess. The coin flip requires no meaningful player input whereas chess requires only player input.

In the case of Community Warfare, the game requires skill but is limited in the sense that players only operate the game one way, Rushing. The game is not won by luck nor is it won automatically by the game itself (AI). There is skill organizing everyone for a rush and carrying it out successfully.

So to carry your example out further, CW is very much like a card game. Skill matters, but so does getting lucky and getting the right cards. Just watch any world series of poker where somebody who should have lost gets very lucky and picks up just the right cards at the end. However if you put a novice in there they will get eaten alive, which is where the skill comes in.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 12 January 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[Felix7007]

Right, I could play chess by throwing the pieces at you till you die but that's technically wrong too. People who actually play the game correctly rush.

[Ax2Grind]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Right, I could play chess by throwing the pieces at you till you die but that's technically wrong too. People who actually play the game correctly rush.

Once again...incorrect. Rushing is but one tactic. Broaden your horizons. There are at least two ways to win a match.

[Alexander Steel]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Right, I could play chess by throwing the pieces at you till you die but that's technically wrong too. People who actually play the game correctly rush.

More like in poker the traditional way to win is to have the best hand at the end of the game, but you can also win by making the person your are playing fold.

[Grynos]

Does skill matter in CW.. Yes, there is a certain amount of skill involved in playing a match against other players, coordination and a decent strategy , if implemented correctly will win the match in most cases.

Does one skilled unit matter in CW..... Nope not even in the slightest. CW is a numbers game , that's all it is. Whomever has the highest population attacking a planet will win. There is no debate about it, those are the facts. Stalling so other groups can ghost drop is a tactic, so that the population prevails, not the skill of that population. Stalling is only a tactic, it is not skillful by any means.

The good matches are when two units that use tactics and have skill go against each other. Other than that CW is nothing more than a money grab, because taking or defending a planet means nothing right now.

[Felix7007]

I will **** a brick if this community finds out more than 3 general tactics going through a chokepoint.

Current tactics

• rush
  
• snipe

we can run everyone through the chokepoint quickly to reduce exposure time or we can shoot over the gates to try and kill them all long range so we don't have to rush.

[Alexander Steel]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

I will **** a brick if this community finds out more than 3 general tactics going through a chokepoint.

Current tactics

• rush
  
• snipe

we can run everyone through the chokepoint quickly to reduce exposure time or we can shoot over the gates to try and kill them all long range so we don't have to rush.

Feint and Sneak. Send in 7-8 mechs at one point to have the defender over commit, and then have a group of fast/jump capable mechs slip unnoticed past the other side.

Be sure to buy the brick dinner first.. it's only polite.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 12 January 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[Jman5]

I'm really looking forward to see how the new counter-attack mode plays out. It sounds like it will rely much closer on what we would generally agree is more pure player-skill. AKA out-shooting enemies that are shooting back at you.

Edited by Jman5, 12 January 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[Felix7007]

Alexander. You are still either going through the gate or not.
Sniping Is not going through the gate and rushing is.

Edited by Felix7007, 12 January 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

I will **** a brick if this community finds out more than 3 general tactics going through a chokepoint.

Current tactics

• rush
  
• snipe

we can run everyone through the chokepoint quickly to reduce exposure time or we can shoot over the gates to try and kill them all long range so we don't have to rush.

you forgot to add "Brawl". Or you could combine Snipe and Brawl into "Farm"/"Kill". You can still go through the chokepoint and then engage. You don't have to rush the base genies.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 12 January 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[Harathan]

Alexander Steel, on 12 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Feint and Sneak. Send in 7-8 mechs at one point to have the defender over commit, and then have a group of fast/jump capable mechs slip unnoticed past the other side.

Be sure to buy the brick dinner first.. it's only polite.

If I find myself in a PUG drop, this is exactly what I try to organise. It's easier trying to get 4 guys to jump a gate than 12 guys to push thru a gate when nobody wants to be the first to get shot.

[Felix7007]

Ok, to make this simpler. I will **** a brick if someone finds out how to win by not going past the one or many gates on offense. Remember, you must kill Omega to win.

You will soon realize you MUST go through a gate to win thus limiting tactics to rush based.

Edited by Felix7007, 12 January 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[Harathan]

Felix7007, on 12 January 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Ok, to make this simpler. I will **** a brick if someone finds out how to win by not going past the gate on offense.

Since the point of CW is objectives, not kills, why would the objective not be defended? Just curious.

[Felix7007]

Harathan,

My argument is not that the objectives are defended. I don't know how you came up with that.