47 replies to this topic

[AssaultPig]

The problem isn't objectives, it's that the attacking team currently has very little incentive to actually fight enemy mechs.

In a straight up fight defenders have various structural advantages; turrets, closer respawn, defensive chokepoints, etc. Attackers who engage in a straight up attrition fight can expect lose, usually badly. Thus attackers abandon the attrition game in favor of rushing the generators.

If destroyed defenders were out of the fight longer there might be more incentive for attackers to try and remove them. As it is there's no reason for attackers to really want to destroy defending mechs (especially if they're already damaged), which is why people don't do it.

[Joseph Mallan]

AssaultPig, on 12 January 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

The problem isn't objectives, it's that the attacking team currently has very little incentive to actually fight enemy mechs.

In a straight up fight defenders have various structural advantages; turrets, closer respawn, defensive chokepoints, etc. Attackers who engage in a straight up attrition fight can expect lose, usually badly. Thus attackers abandon the attrition game in favor of rushing the generators.

If destroyed defenders were out of the fight longer there might be more incentive for attackers to try and remove them. As it is there's no reason for attackers to really want to destroy defending mechs (especially if they're already damaged), which is why people don't do it.

Once again for the new folks here. The Objective is to destroy the Cannon. The bonus is killing teh troops protecting it. So blow up the cannon Then let the clock run and let the forces fight or retreat. That is more accurate. It also allows for BOTH sides to possibly get a victory. Attackers blow up the cannon WIN. Defenders stomp all attackers "PARTIAL VICTORY".

[Revis Volek]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 January 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

SO what you want is no objective and just fight for no reason?

He wants something that already exists....

Its called SKIRMISH and its part of the Public drop queue.

[Joseph Mallan]

DarthRevis, on 12 January 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

He wants something that already exists....

Its called SKIRMISH and its part of the Public drop queue.

That's what I said though

[Revis Volek]

AssaultPig, on 12 January 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

The problem isn't objectives, it's that the attacking team currently has very little incentive to actually fight enemy mechs.

In a straight up fight defenders have various structural advantages; turrets, closer respawn, defensive chokepoints, etc. Attackers who engage in a straight up attrition fight can expect lose, usually badly. Thus attackers abandon the attrition game in favor of rushing the generators.

If destroyed defenders were out of the fight longer there might be more incentive for attackers to try and remove them. As it is there's no reason for attackers to really want to destroy defending mechs (especially if they're already damaged), which is why people don't do it.

There is a point to this....for the attackers, killing enemy mechs just creates more trouble. If you kill them at the gate you will see them again at Omega PLUS the dropship is there shooting at you. So what is the point in Killing them just so they can RESPAWN in your face 500 meters down the line with a DS for help?

Its BAD GAME DESIGN! If the Dropship didnt spawn on my head at the objectives and drop fresh mechs on me i would be more inclined to kill them.

SO make a LANDING PAD somewhere else, behind the base, make two off to either side to make DS camping harder for the attacker...there are a few ways to force us to fight the defenders. But currently there is no reason and it is better to leg and leave them at the gate.

[DoctorDetroit]

Rushing should always be viable in a strategy game. But there needs to be appropriate counter another team can use. Clans use streak boats.... inner sphere needs to add streak6s to the game to allow better anti light drop decks.

[Repasy Cooper]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 January 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Once again for the new folks here. The Objective is to destroy the Cannon. The bonus is killing teh troops protecting it. So blow up the cannon Then let the clock run and let the forces fight or retreat. That is more accurate. It also allows for BOTH sides to possibly get a victory. Attackers blow up the cannon WIN. Defenders stomp all attackers "PARTIAL VICTORY".

+1

Also...
I'd like to see more kinds of objective scenarios, there's all sorts of possibilities. Currently what we have is gate defense combined w/ destroy 4xObjectives. I suggest the following as other exciting scenarios to mix up, calling for new strategies and drop deck considerations:

ESCORT CONVOY(A)/DESTROY CONVOY(D):
Team x must escort 4 supply vehicles + 4 guard vehicles (tanks, lrm carriers, etc.) across the map from point A to point B, could be one or several winding paths through hills or a canyon. Team y's objective is to destroy the convoy vehicles before they reach point B. As mechs are destroyed, Team x players would be deployed via dropship as close as possible to the convoy, wherever that may be in the convoy path. Team y players would deploy via dropship to one of three key deployment zones spread throughout the map. The convoy slows down/stops when it is being attacked, otherwise it can make it to point B in 10 - 15 if it remains unharmed. Team x wins if any % of convoy survives to point B, Team y wins if 100% of convoy is destroyed or timer runs to 0 before any % of convoy can make it to point B. Bonus C-bills for % convoy survived/destroyed and teams wiping out their opponents completely. Inspired by various MW4Mercs campaign objectives. The idea being that the attacking faction must deliver supplies to an offensive operation, and the defending faction will try to destroy this convoy so that the future offensive operation fails.

BATTLEFIELD ASSAULT(A)/HOLD BATTLEFIELD(D)
This scenario is inspired by various Battlefield games (1942, Bad Company). Team x's objective is to push team y off the map. There are 2 defensive fronts w/ turrets that team x has to capture before they can attempt to capture team y's field command outpost. Each of these fronts may have one or more points that require capturing before moving onto the next front, or perhaps team x only needs to capture one point to clear a defensive front. Team x wins if they can push to and capture the outpost, and team y wins if the enemy forces are destroyed or the timer runs to 0. Map can contain walls, trenches, gates, narrow passages, etc. for variation on assault tactics. Defending team y could have option to retake a lost front, or perhaps once a front is captured it cannot be recaptured. Team x mechs redeploy to starting zone or the captured point closest to enemy outpost. Team y deploys to the active front, or one behind the active front if it is being captured.

BATTLEFIELD CONQUEST:
This is a slight variation on the public queue Conquest scenario. Team x and y each deploy on opposite sides of the map. In this scenario there are three neutral objectives that each team attempts to capture and hold for as long as possible. Each held point generates points for the team yaddayaddayadda, again same mechanics as public queue Conquest. Team wins if they accumulate 2000 pts (or whatever sum is reasonable), or they have the most points when timer runs to 0, or if the enemy team is destroyed. Optional: artillery/airstrike unavailable if your team controls no objectives, # of objectives controlled affects team ordinance cooldown.

DoctorDetroit, on 12 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Rushing should always be viable in a strategy game. But there needs to be appropriate counter another team can use. Clans use streak boats.... inner sphere needs to add streak6s to the game to allow better anti light drop decks.

I'd just like to point out that the easiest counter to streaks is lights w/ ecm. Those guys are a nightmare, I can't even use my streaks if they get close! That's also why I equip C-ERPPC with my streaks so I can try disable ecm for a moment in those situations. But pilots that are fully equipped streak are gonna be banging their head against the screen when those ecm lights come around.

Edited by Repasy, 12 January 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[Banditman]

DoctorDetroit, on 12 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Rushing should always be viable in a strategy game. But there needs to be appropriate counter another team can use. Clans use streak boats.... inner sphere needs to add streak6s to the game to allow better anti light drop decks.

IS will get access to larger streak launchers in 3058.

I do agree that there is very little incentive for an attacker to kill a defender. By the time the attacker has the opportunity to take advantage, the defender has already respawned and is in position to defend. On the other hand, if the attacker felt that he could kill all the defending mechs off and gain an advantage by doing so, there would be incentive. The problem is that currently too many advantages lie with the defender in a straight up skirmish type fight.