61 replies to this topic

[Davers]

People playing MWO but not using the Steam client will not effect Steam's numbers. So there will always be a question of how many people are playing. I know with my old computer I try to have as little running in the background as possible.

[That Dawg]

uhmmmmmmmm

nevermind

[Lily from animove]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Hey all,

I thought I would start a somewhat tongue-in-cheek discussion on one of the implications that joining Steam will have for PGI:

Steamchart user count tracking

For the longest time PGI has hidden the user-count from the public as part of its company secrets. By joining Steam, the user-count of Steam players playing MWO will always be visible in real-time, as well as with statistics on changes over time (weekly, monthly, etc).

So, PGI, are you guys really ready to bite the bullet on showing the numbers finally once again? :-)

yes, but beware when stema is not the only wy of starting the game, this may not totally show all values, because I guess like other game,s the regular method to play MWO will stay.

yet steam will give a trend of how many in % the players sink and raise.

LameoveR, on 11 January 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

So, when it's goin' to come on steam?

they said they want it before summersales.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Well, I for one have always objected to the removal of the user-count. I suspect that indirectly, the decision to make the user-count a company secret is one of the reasons we never had a chat system -- a chat system would let us see numbers.

I think that if MWO is going on Steam, they should simply let the numbers be public, and give us a chat system.

The user count system was a tester tool so beta players knew if they had a good chance of getting a match or not. You have a Founder's tag so I presume you remember early CB when during off hours there actually were times when you had to wait for a game. It was removed when the population could sustain games with little to no wait times at all hours and had thus outlived its usefulness.

Exactly what purpose would it serve you, the player, at this point in time other than to satisfy a desire for purely superfluous information?

As for Steam, as long as I do not have to use Steam to play MWO I will be happy.

[Kyrie]

Nathan Foxbane, on 11 January 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

The user count system was a tester tool so beta players knew if they had a good chance of getting a match or not. You have a Founder's tag so I presume you remember early CB when during off hours there actually were times when you had to wait for a game. It was removed when the population could sustain games with little to no wait times at all hours and had thus outlived its usefulness.

Exactly what purpose would it serve you, the player, at this point in time other than to satisfy a desire for purely superfluous information?

As for Steam, as long as I do not have to use Steam to play MWO I will be happy.

As addressed in this thread a few times, my point is the following:

1) We have no in-game chat system.
2) See previous posts addressing the need for a chat system.
3) I posit a link between the user-count issue and the lack of a chat system.
4) I am suggesting its time for a chat system to be implemented.

[PurpleNinja]

Why exactly do you need a player count?

[Kyrie]

PurpleNinja, on 11 January 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Why exactly do you need a player count?

See previous. ;-)

[PurpleNinja]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

See previous. ;-)

Read.
It does not answers my question.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

As addressed in this thread a few times, my point is the following:

1) We have no in-game chat system.
2) See previous posts addressing the need for a chat system.
3) I posit a link between the user-count issue and the lack of a chat system.
4) I am suggesting its time for a chat system to be implemented.

The need for a chat system and user-count system are independent of one another. I can see the initial logic, but it would not be part of the problem. Chat system is in, but that there is a lack of a general and faction wide chat function that are the specific problems. Groups and friends have little current issue talking to each other. A permanent window to monitor multiple types of chat like those found in the UI's of many other games would be nice, but it does compete for valuable screen real estate. An expansion of the system itself was, like so many other comparably minor features, likely shelved until CW was completed as PGI has a relatively small staff.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 11 January 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[Kyrie]

PurpleNinja, on 11 January 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Read.
It does not answers my question.

It does, with a small bit of effort. A global chat system would inevitably reveal the numbers. My main concern is not with seeing the numbers, but with the concept of "why we have no chat system".

So as I stated in previous posts, the reason we have no global chat system, is, I believe:
-Because it would show numbers in some form or another.

A chat system tends to follow the following paradigm:

-A user list, to see who you are chatting with
-An area to show the chat
-An input box to type in messages.

I allege we haven't gotten a chat system in 3 years simply because of the first element. ;-) Regardless of this, the main point of this thread is the following:

1) If you are going to go on Steam, you as a developer better get used to having your numbers shown
2) If there were any other delayed features (ahem, chat) that were blocked by wanting to conceal the numbers, time to rethink it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Hey all,

I thought I would start a somewhat tongue-in-cheek discussion on one of the implications that joining Steam will have for PGI:

Steamchart user count tracking

For the longest time PGI has hidden the user-count from the public as part of its company secrets. By joining Steam, the user-count of Steam players playing MWO will always be visible in real-time, as well as with statistics on changes over time (weekly, monthly, etc).

So, PGI, are you guys really ready to bite the bullet on showing the numbers finally once again? :-)

So, does anyone else remember why Player Count was removed from the game during Beta?

Anyone else?



... It was because people were publishing the playercount numbers as "Proof" that the game was an absolute failure and the population was dying. They took screenshots of the playercount on Saturday evenings and compared it to playercounts from Tuesday mornings and then posted them everywhere to demonstrate that MWO was a dead game with falling numbers.

The playercount numbers offered no positive press, but did cause large quantity of negative press from malicious people in the "MWO Community," so it was removed. It wasn't held as some company secret in order to hide crucial game details from honest players; it was removed because scumbag people were using it as a tool to deliberately harm the game's financial viability while it was being delivered to market for the first time.

This is why we can't have nice things; you have to toddler-proof houses that have sniveling, whining toddlers.

The playercount will udoubetly be used as "Proof" that Community Warfare is dying when they show that payer counts are "falling rapidly" from peak weekend hours to weekday mornings (thus, the game is dying).

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 January 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[Kyrie]

Nathan Foxbane, on 11 January 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

The need for a chat system and user-count system are independent of one another. I can see the initial logic, but it would not be part of the problem. Chat system is in, but that there is a lack of a general and faction wide chat function that are the specific problems. Groups and friends have little current issue talking to each other. A permanent window to monitor multiple types of chat like those found in the UI's of many other games would be nice, but it does compete for valuable screen real estate. An expansion of the system itself was, like so many other comparably minor features, shelved until CW was completed as PGI has a relatively small staff.

I will admit I can only conjecture why PGI chose not to implement a chat system, despite the fact that one of their major game-design influencers, WoT, has one. I am personally convinced as to this being the explanation, but I obviously can only conjecture.

I will, however, observe that it is not difficult to implement a chat system. Examples, models, and even libraries abound to get it done. It would be a trivial exercise compared to fixing the CryEngine netcode.

As to the reasons for having a chat system:

1) It would have helped simplify and market the group queue feature as well as the premium match feature and made them money all of these long months.

2) It is now an urgent need in CW.

3) Communication is the basis of any MMO. ;-)

[PurpleNinja]

Since you took the time to answer a troll politely...
By chat I suppose you mean voice comms.

- Implementing a chat costs money.
- The hardcore players already have a 3rd party comms system.
- PUGs will only use a chat system to troll, like the ALL chat in the drop preparation.
- Most people will just turn off the chat (I will).

There's no point.

[Tennex]

it'll do well as long as there is good new player experience

tutorials etc.

[That Dawg]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

As addressed in this thread a few times, my point is the following:

1) We have no in-game chat system.
2) See previous posts addressing the need for a chat system.
3) I posit a link between the user-count issue and the lack of a chat system.
4) I am suggesting its time for a chat system to be implemented.

As has been addressed multiple times, in multiple other threads, even on multiple other forums, answers for questions one thru 4 (1-4)
1 no
2 no
3 hell no
4 just no

No amount of stats, statements, salvos of suggestions would make chat viable, its horrid in every game i've tried it in, inluding WOT which I thought was marginally successful
NOT communicating is part of PUGS, you want talkies, join a clan!

[Kyrie]

PurpleNinja, on 11 January 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Since you took the time to answer a troll politely...
By chat I suppose you mean voice comms.

- Implementing a chat costs money.
- The hardcore players already have a 3rd party comms system.
- PUGs will only use a chat system to troll, like the ALL chat in the drop preparation.
- Most people will just turn off the chat (I will).

There's no point.

I am referring to typing chat, not voip. And I am referring to a number of useful things that can be done in a chat system:
-Ask for help in a New Player channel.
-Recruit for Units.
-Coordinate Tournaments and Group Drops
-Setup specialty matches using the premium group queue.
-etc.
-Coordinate CW.

[PurpleNinja]

Kyrie, on 11 January 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

I am referring to typing chat, not voip. And I am referring to a number of useful things that can be done in a chat system:
-Ask for help in a New Player channel.
-Recruit for Units.
-Coordinate Tournaments and Group Drops
-Setup specialty matches using the premium group queue.
-etc.
-Coordinate CW.

My bad.
It would be nice to have global chat, but judging by how awful the current chat system is, it must be the lowest priority on PGI checklist.

[Kyrie]

That Dawg, on 11 January 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

As has been addressed multiple times, in multiple other threads, even on multiple other forums, answers for questions one thru 4 (1-4)
1 no
2 no
3 hell no
4 just no

No amount of stats, statements, salvos of suggestions would make chat viable, its horrid in every game i've tried it in, inluding WOT which I thought was marginally successful
NOT communicating is part of PUGS, you want talkies, join a clan!

I am not referring to VoIP but a simple global typing chat system. Not for use in the combat game, but outside of it.

[DasSibby]

Theodore42, on 11 January 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Timing is everything

My thoughts exactly! Soon... Soon the game will be ready... and then we'll rule the world!

[Kyrie]

Prosperity Park, on 11 January 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

So, does anyone else remember why Player Count was removed from the game during Beta?

Anyone else?
(snip)

One of the points in this thread is to acknowledge the fact that if PGI decides to proceed with Steam, there will be Numbers.

There will be Steam Numbers. And PGI has to get used to it and plan accordingly. ;-)



EDIT: Added gratuitous meme, as no thread is complete without at least one. ;-)

Edited by Kyrie, 11 January 2015 - 06:11 PM.