42 replies to this topic

[InspectorG]

Now that the catchy hook-title dragged you in...

I think Clan vs IS is about balanced, time will tell with the Clan Quirk pass.

Im just wondering this:

Clans get free C.A.S.E., IS does not.

How much more fragile does that make IS ammo carriers compared to Clansmen?

IS ammo carriers with XLengines would likely be more vulnerable.

Anyone gots numbers for this?

PLEEEZ do not make this about Clans are OP because: reasons. Post that drivel in one of the other 945634876 Clan OP threads.

Im more interested in CASE and survivability and if IS mechs should be carrying it more often.

[Triordinant]

As long as Inner Sphere CASE weighs something and takes up space, almost no IS pilot will use it. It's the second reason using XL engines is risky for IS 'mechs (first is every competent Mechwarrior aims for my Jagers' and Thunderbolts' side torsos).

[Dino Might]

Triordinant, on 12 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

(first is every competent Mechwarrior aims for my Jagers' and Thunderbolts' side torsos).

Tbolt should almost never use an XL. Those chunky side torsos are even more of a bullet magnet than a soft and chewy Locust cookie.

To the OP, I think CASE is important if you carry a LOT of ammo. If only 1-2 tons of SRMs or AC, then it's not worth the investment. More than likely, you will have depleted most of that meagre amount of ammo before it could detonate, and the chance of detonation, while greater now than it has been in the past, is still relatively small.

I find that the most dangerous combination is ammo in the legs and an XL. For that reason, I try to put ammo in the side torsos - usually that torso (and the engine with it) is going before the ammo does, so I don't bother with CASE. Legs, however, go before everything else vs good shots, and if some of that ammo (which is the some of the last to be consumed) goes, then it's game over.

[topgun505]

CASE is mainly for fat mechs that can spare the tonnage and are meant to be durable.

If a mech is running an XL, then CASE (in lore) isn't for saving the mech from destruction as much as it is to save the pilot (if he has Auto-eject off) and ... most importantly, to increase the chances of the mech to be able to be salvaged later (and to reduce the cost of repairing it and putting it back on the front lines).

[LameoveR]

Clan mechs got C.A.S.E.. IS mechs got several free crit slots in the legs, where they can put their ammo (4tons?).

[Ultimax]

C.A.S.E. feels almost irrelevant on my clan builds.

Outside of my dakka wolf most of my clan builds are all energy, or they carry gauss ammo (which doesn't explode), or they have 4 to 5 tons of SRM ammo that I chew threw long before there is a big risk.

Couple that with the generally low amount of ammo explosions, and I think this is one of those "advantages on paper" that practically speaking means very little.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 12 January 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[cSand]

CASE doesn't protect your XL engine from ammo explosions in the same torso does it?

[Ryokens leap]

cSand, on 12 January 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

CASE doesn't protect your XL engine from ammo explosions in the same torso does it?

No it does not, it only contains the explosion in that torso from spreading inwards to CT.

[Xetelian]

cSand, on 12 January 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

CASE doesn't protect your XL engine from ammo explosions in the same torso does it?

As far as I know CASE only prevents damage carrying over. So if you put ammo in your arm and it explodes case will make sure the explosion doesn't damage your Torso.

If you torso explodes case helps by preventing damage to your center from the torso explosion.

[Mcgral18]

Xetelian, on 12 January 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

As far as I know CASE only prevents damage carrying over. So if you put ammo in your arm and it explodes case will make sure the explosion doesn't damage your Torso.

If you torso explodes case helps by preventing damage to your center from the torso explosion.

Well, if there's an arm explosion, it will blow the arm, then the ST, then not transfer to the CT.

It's only that barrier between ST and CT.

[Sarlic]

Ryokens leap, on 12 January 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

No it does not, it only contains the explosion in that torso from spreading inwards to CT.

And only counts for 1 ton of am

[Mcgral18]

Sarlic, on 12 January 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

And only counts for 1 ton of am

I'm still unsure about that one. I've heard it was a misunderstanding on the Devs part when they made that statement.

But explosions are so rare, it's hard to test.

[Sarlic]

Mcgral18, on 12 January 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm still unsure about that one. I've heard it was a misunderstanding on the Devs part when they made that statement.

But explosions are so rare, it's hard to test.

Not sure as well. I think it was...1 ton.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Thats one benefit of Clans having full body CASE, when they put a Gauss into an arm that can accept it, when that Gauss goes, it doesn't transfer crit damage to the next section.

Take driving a Dragon or Victor with a Gauss in the arm, once it pops, it crits the hell out of your connected Torso section, and once armor there is gone its pretty much instant death.

Clanners get away scott free when damage doesn't transfer from Gauss or ammo explosions.

[Almond Brown]

Pretty sure an Arm based explosion loses the Arm and any damage transferred still goes to the associated Torso. If that Torso has C.A.S.E. then that ammo will not explode but the Torso can still be destroyed if the damage numbers transferred is enough to destroy it.

C.A.S.E. only protects the Torso section it is in from internal ammo explosions, it does not protect against damage transfer.

[Apnu]

I'm not sure how CASE works in MWO, but on the TT it prevents damage transfer from an ammo explosion to another location.

So if there's case in the leg and ammo in the leg and the ammo takes a crit and blows up, the leg takes all the damage until its destroyed and then any remaining damage blows out the case and doesn't transfer inward like it normally would.

With an XL engine, CASE is useless. If your ammo cooks off in a torso with CASE, that torso will still take all the damage from the ammo explosion (say 180 points of LRM damage) which will destroy the torso, destroying three engine sections along the way, and causing the mech to die due to engine failure.

That's why I don't take CASE. If MWO has different rules for CASE, please enlighten me.

[Metus regem]

In TT, C.A.S.E. (Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment) prevented an ammo explosion from totally destroying a mech, I cannot begin to tell you the number of WHM-6R's I have lost to a crit hit to that 1 ton of MG ammo (400 points of damage when it goes off at a full ton)...

For a mech with an IS XL, yes you would still lose the mech, but it could be salvaged, not a total write off, again this is for a TT campaign.

In MWO, ammo explosions have been minimized to such a degree, that C.A.S.E. is almost pointless. If the I.S. ever gets AP ammo, then it might have a use, but that is a big if….

[Roadkill]

CASE is pretty useless. That's not a problem for the Clans because they get it for free, but even IS pilots shouldn't bother.

CASE only prevents damage from spreading to adjacent locations. It WILL NOT save you if you have an XL engine.

Furthermore, ammo only explodes IF it randomly takes a critical hit, AND that critical hit does enough damage to destroy the ammo, AND the 10% chance occurs for the ammo to explode.

Meanwhile that CASE is taking up 0.5 tons on your Mech in every. single. game. Or 1 ton if you've foolishly put it in both side torsos.

[Rhaythe]

Roadkill, on 12 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Meanwhile that CASE is taking up 0.5 tons on your Mech in every. single. game. Or 1 ton if you've foolishly put it in both side torsos.

Still quite build-specific. If I'm running a standard engine, I'd rather put my ammo and a CASE in one torso and run with the half-ton penalty than shove all my ammo in my mech's legs. Too many mechwarriors know to blast the legs off these days than to risk storing ammo there unless you really have to.

[Roadkill]

Rhaythe, on 12 January 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Still quite build-specific. If I'm running a standard engine, I'd rather put my ammo and a CASE in one torso and run with the half-ton penalty than shove all my ammo in my mech's legs. Too many mechwarriors know to blast the legs off these days than to risk storing ammo there unless you really have to.

Go for it. I don't strip (much) armor off the legs, so you're looking at full armor. Then if you leg me, you have a 2 in 6 change of even getting a crit on one of the two tons of ammo I have stored there. Then there's only a 10% chance that the ammo will explode.

So you're basically going to the amount of effort it would have taken you to destroy one of my side torsos for a 3.3% chance of getting an ammo explosion.

Meanwhile, I'll be coring your torso.

Please. Keep doing that against me. Please.