48 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

It's over a year since I left her. She'd changed. While she once looked young, full of energy when I first met her, I felt like she had let herself go. She was out of shape, could barely get off her feet. Back in the day, I used to love taking her out, we had so much fun together. After a few months, word got out that she was everyone's favourite plaything. People lost respect for her and our relationship suffered. I'm not gonna lie. I started looking for a younger model. I didn't even touch her in 2014. But now, I got her back.

The Highlander.

I have to say, I regret selling this mech a year or so ago. Sure, she doesn't have nice curves of the Victor, she's got a terrible engine restriction and those 2 ton jump jets are basically just concrete smoke machines. Good adversaries will always aim straight for her right torso and try to disarm her. Granted. But in the right hands, she's still one nasty freak.

The ability to carry an AC20 or 2UAC5s in the arm and still move your aim horizontally is great. You can also do a lot of damage with 3-4 SRM launchers + a total of 4 energy and ballistic weapons. And if you equip an STD engine and put all the weapons on your right side, it's quite possible to deflect a lot of damage to your huge shield side. And while I thought an XL Engine would be a disaster on this mech, given the lack of speed, it's really not that. It's pretty easy to torso twist to distribute damage to your whole torso.

Most importantly, there's really a lot of ways to play the Highlander. It has 4 C-bill variants and unlike the Atlas, you don't have to make them all variations of the same brawler build. Which is why I sold al my Atlases to buy back the Highlander.

Hopefully PGI will de-nerf her jump jets soon, because at 60 kph it can be a bit of a procedure to move around to different areas of the map, climbing hills and ramps and those cursed stairs on Viridian Bog.

TL;DR- The Highlander. Give her another chance.

[cSand]

I agree with you.

With some jump jet love this mech would be great

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I've kept my Heavy Metal with one JJ for a small boost over rocks and inclines.

It would be nice to have JJs be more efficient with the stock or full compliment, but with how they were used in the past I can understand any reluctance to adjust them.

So I wonder if a quirk that can stack with the Hill Climb module would be good to add to them?

[cSand]

Praetor Knight, on 14 January 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

I've kept my Heavy Metal with one JJ for a small boost over rocks and inclines.

It would be nice to have JJs be more efficient with the stock or full compliment, but with how they were used in the past I can understand any reluctance to adjust them.

So I wonder if a quirk that can stack with the Hill Climb module would be good to add to them?

I had another thread where I was saying how some of the quirks, rather than weapons based, should have been more to do with the role of the mech... mobility or JJ quirks would have been great for the HGN

My example was the QKD which is supposed to be better at climbing hills and on treacherous terrain because of it's funky ankle actuators.. could have been quirked for hillclimbing (which would be great, because in that mech keeping your speed is the key IMO)

Edited by cSand, 14 January 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Praetor Knight, on 14 January 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

It would be nice to have JJs be more efficient with the stock or full compliment, but with how they were used in the past I can understand any reluctance to adjust them.
So I wonder if a quirk that can stack with the Hill Climb module would be good to add to them?

Hill climb module? I'd rather buy a Flamer cooldown module!

There are many ways to balance jump jets though. It's not a sliding scale along a single axis.

• You could give the Highlander a great horizontal jump, making it useful for jumping from building to building, plateau to plateau, etc.
  
• You could give the Highlander a very slow climb rate, but very high fuel capacity. Poptarting isn't really that effective if you spend 5-6 seconds every time you want to pop up, but spending 5-6 seconds to climb a cliff is still preferable to walking an extra 500-1000 meters or so, on many maps. On River City, for example, it's ok if it takes a while to climb the Citadel, so long as you're in cover.
  
• You could drastically increase heat. It would make it almost useless in a combat situation, but still great for getting into position before fighting starts or between engagements. Is that worth 2 tons? If the climb is good enough, absolutely.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Alistair Winter, on 14 January 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Hill climb module? I'd rather buy a Flamer cooldown module!

There are many ways to balance jump jets though. It's not a sliding scale along a single axis.

• You could give the Highlander a great horizontal jump, making it useful for jumping from building to building, plateau to plateau, etc.
  
• You could give the Highlander a very slow climb rate, but very high fuel capacity. Poptarting isn't really that effective if you spend 5-6 seconds every time you want to pop up, but spending 5-6 seconds to climb a cliff is still preferable to walking an extra 500-1000 meters or so, on many maps. On River City, for example, it's ok if it takes a while to climb the Citadel, so long as you're in cover.
  
• You could drastically increase heat. It would make it almost useless in a combat situation, but still great for getting into position before fighting starts or between engagements. Is that worth 2 tons? If the climb is good enough, absolutely.

I meant stack-able so Hill Climb would add to the quirk, so if the quirk is say 10%, then it should be a total of 20% for Highlanders for example if Hill Climb is taken.

But yeah, if we can get say a longer burn time on JJs that should help a lot.

I had an idea of allowing longer horizontal potential jump distance by adding JJs, so mount 5 the mech could move up ~120 M horizontally. Three JJs on the Highlander could allow ~60 to ~90 M.

[Kiiyor]

I still shudder when thinking of their insipid silhouettes darkening the skyline in the wild days of the poptart dominance wars.

I was there man. I was there.

[Deathlike]

I'm sorry... the chastity belt (Hoverjets™) has given me pause.

Then again, I'd have to fight over whether I'd want the 732 (my Highlander of choice) or 733C. That's just not fair.

The Highlander hasn't been on sale yet to boot.

[Alistair Winter]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'm sorry... the chastity belt (Hoverjets™) has given me pause.
Then again, I'd have to fight over whether I'd want the 732 (my Highlander of choice) or 733C. That's just not fair.
The Highlander hasn't been on sale yet to boot.

I'm buying the HGN-732 and 733P when they're on sale, for sure. Right now, I just bought back the 733 and 733C because those were already elited.

For the 732, I'm thinking 3xERLL, AC5 and SRM6+Artemis, as a nice change of pace from my other HGN brawlers. Those high mounted energy hardpoints are nice for sniping. For the 733P I'm debating whether to use LLs or PPCs.

What was your 732 build?

[El Bandito]

It is inconceivable that the 733 did not get any LRM quirks, while AWS-8R and BLR-1S got loads of em. PGI done goofed!

I suppose this will do instead. Gonna surprise the heck out of those Lights.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...be33871f10f3385

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

It is inconceivable that the 733 did not get any LRM quirks, while AWS-8R and BLR-1S got loads of em. PGI done goofed!

I suppose this will do instead. Gonna surprise the heck out of those Lights.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...be33871f10f3385

Haha, that's a hilarious build! I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a build like that.

But is the 733 really the best HGN candidate for LRM boat? I would argue that it's the 733P that makes the best LRM boat, Granted, it can only mount 3 LRM launchers, and unfortunately it can't even fire 3xLRM15s in a single volley. However, ballistic weapons are not the ideal backup weapon for LRM boats. If you want a really good LRM boat with TAG, Artemis and BAP and enough ammo to fire continuously for 15 minutes and do proper damage, then you probably dont have enough weight for ballistics. I wonder if 3xML, LRM20+A, 2xLRM10+A and TAG is the ideal HGN LRM boat.

Or maybe it's this.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 14 January 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

Haha, that's a hilarious build! I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a build like that.

But is the 733 really the best HGN candidate for LRM boat? I would argue that it's the 733P that makes the best LRM boat, Granted, it can only mount 3 LRM launchers, and unfortunately it can't even fire 3xLRM15s in a single volley. However, ballistic weapons are not the ideal backup weapon for LRM boats. If you want a really good LRM boat with TAG, Artemis and BAP and enough ammo to fire continuously for 15 minutes and do proper damage, then you probably dont have enough weight for ballistics. I wonder if 3xML, LRM20+A, 2xLRM10+A and TAG is the ideal HGN LRM boat.

Or maybe it's this.

I personally like "Balls to the Walls" builds. If I want to boat something, I do not do it half-heartedly, hence 733 was my choice, until the Quirkening made it obsolete. Admittedly 733P offers much better backup weapons, but just gotta point out that--LRM20s are bad mmk? You are much better off with Triple ALRM15s. The spread even with Artemis makes it bad investment, unless your mech is specifically quirked for it, like the STK-3H.

And as I mentioned before, alphaing LRM20+dual LRM10s means you are trading LRM40 damage for LRM60 heat.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

I personally like "Balls to the Walls" builds. If I want to boat something, I do not do it half-heartedly...

A wise man once said, "If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing!"

[Alistair Winter]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

I personally like "Balls to the Walls" builds. If I want to boat something, I do not do it half-heartedly, hence 733 was my choice, until the Quirkening made it obsolete. Admittedly 733P offers much better backup weapons, but just gotta point out that--LRM20s are bad mmk? You are much better off with Triple ALRM15s. The spread even with Artemis makes it bad investment, unless your mech is specifically quirked for it, like the STK-3H.
And as I mentioned before, alphaing LRM20+dual LRM10s means you are trading LRM40 damage for LRM60 heat.

What do you mean by "balls to the walls" though? I would have thought that 3xLRM20+A was the definition of balls to the walls.

The problem with LRM15's on the HGN is the fact that you have 20+10+10 tubes. So if you fire 3x15, it's going to come out as 35+10 missiles. Now, if AMS shoots down 5 LRMs per volley, that's 10 of 45 missiles gone. If they shoot down 10 LRMs per volley, that's 20 out of 45 gone. If you fire 3x20, it comes out as 40+20 missiles. You lose a smaller percentage of missiles to AMS. Maybe fewer of the second volley are lost compared to the first volley, but the point is still valid.

LRM20+10+10 is the ideal if you're looking to lose as few missiles to LRMs as possible, I suppose.

In regards to the spread of LRM20, bear in mind that you only have 1 launcher with 20 tubes. It's been a long time since I put an LRM20 on a Highlander, so I don't know if they have the same spread as the CPLT-A1, for example. But even if they do, I'm not sure it matters given that only 1 hardpoint has 20 tubes. The game as treating two of those LRM20's like double-tap LRM10s.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 14 January 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

What do you mean by "balls to the walls" though? I would have thought that 3xLRM20+A was the definition of balls to the walls.

The problem with LRM15's on the HGN is the fact that you have 20+10+10 tubes. So if you fire 3x15, it's going to come out as 35+10 missiles. Now, if AMS shoots down 5 LRMs per volley, that's 10 of 45 missiles gone. If they shoot down 10 LRMs per volley, that's 20 out of 45 gone. If you fire 3x20, it comes out as 40+20 missiles. You lose a smaller percentage of missiles to AMS. Maybe fewer of the second volley are lost compared to the first volley, but the point is still valid.

LRM20+10+10 is the ideal if you're looking to lose as few missiles to LRMs as possible, I suppose.

In regards to the spread of LRM20, bear in mind that you only have 1 launcher with 20 tubes. It's been a long time since I put an LRM20 on a Highlander, so I don't know if they have the same spread as the CPLT-A1, for example. But even if they do, I'm not sure it matters given that only 1 hardpoint has 20 tubes. The game as treating two of those LRM20's like double-tap LRM10s.

1. AMS shoots down 3 LRMs per volley if you target the mech with the AMS, so the missile loss is variable.

2. AMS takes 0.5 second of reset time to shoot at different volleys. Since the time it takes for the second part of your LRM15 to shoot from the 10 tube is not greater than 0.5 second, your second launch will lose very few missiles, if at all. I could be wrong, but nonetheless by the time the AMS is done shooting at the first blob, the second blob will be well inside AMS max range, minimizing losses.

Also, while LRM 20 is indeed decent pad to stave off overall % missile loss, you gotta realize that even with Artemis, several missiles will completely miss even a static target without AMS due to spread--making LRM20s very DPS inefficient compared to tonnage spent. Not only your LRM20 is losing missiles to AMS, it is also going to lose additional ones to spread. You are better off packing an ALRM15 to your 20 launcher.
Additionally, with LRM15+dual 10s you will spend 17.52 heat per alpha, as opposed to 21.02 for LRM20+dual 10s.

If LRMs did not have GH link, I would have no problem recommending LRM20s to mixed launcher builds.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2015 - 10:33 PM.

[627]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

I personally like "Balls to the Walls" builds.

Ah, memories from a specific Lurmlander come to my mind. It had a backup weapon. It came with a single Medium Laser.

That was fun, wasn't it?

[El Bandito]

627, on 15 January 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

Ah, memories from a specific Lurmlander come to my mind. It had a backup weapon. It came with a single Medium Laser.

That was fun, wasn't it?

Very. Especially during the days when BAP did not counter ECM. Trying to position with 90 tons of metal was no easy task.

I miss the old Highlander JJs sometimes.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 January 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[zagibu]

I still play my 733C from time to time. 2LL and an AC20 along with some SRM make for a good brawler, but yeah, without the jets, there are better options.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 14 January 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm buying the HGN-732 and 733P when they're on sale, for sure. Right now, I just bought back the 733 and 733C because those were already elited.

For the 732, I'm thinking 3xERLL, AC5 and SRM6+Artemis, as a nice change of pace from my other HGN brawlers. Those high mounted energy hardpoints are nice for sniping. For the 733P I'm debating whether to use LLs or PPCs.

What was your 732 build?

If I told you it was the meta build @ the height of the PPC meta (2 PPCs + 1 ERPPC + Gauss), well, it would be sad.

I'm kinda leaning towards the 733C though, only because of the 4 JJ potential (if ever PGI decides to remove the hoverjet™ phenomenon).

I could probably rig 3 LPL with Gauss on the 732 and not be too disappointed.

[Widowmaker1981]

Highlanders got tiered higher and the got less quirks due to their JJs which do not function at all, so they are gathering dust in my garage forever until PGI either fixes class 1 JJs to be worth the tonnage (1/3 of the thrust per ton of class 3 JJs is ludicrously useless) or quirks them much better. As it stands HGNs are just crap banshees with low engine caps, less hardpoints in worse places and worse quirks.

I have a feeling they do not want to bring them up to scratch because they have 'had their time in the sun'

Shame really, Highlanders were my first mastered mech, and only very recently did my BNC-3M overtake my Heavy Metal for most matches played in one mech. I never poptarted with it (well, maybe a couple jumpshots every few matches at most).

Honestly PGI if you fix the HGNs JJs to actually work i dont care if you completely disable firing its weapons unless its feet are touching the ground.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 15 January 2015 - 01:25 AM.