5 replies to this topic

[GoGo Yubari]

So, I've been thinking about Community Warfare. Just as a caveat, I hope I won't sound too negative, but this does include some criticism after all.

I think the system as it currently exists is a very bare skeleton of a product. It's pretty much the skinniest version of a community warfare system that I could envision for the game. That was a bit of a disappointment. That said, playing it proves to be fun enough and there is promise. It'll probably turn out into a decent product, which will broaden the way I can enjoy MWO. However, based on the foundation that is being laid, I am feeling a little underwhelmed by what is attempted here. Sure, everything is expandable ad infinitum, but the way the groundwork for something is laid out tells you about its possible future. To call it a beta (instead of an alpha), suggests this as well.

I just listened to NGNG's community warfare roundtable and overall there was a lot of good ideas thrown around, though I don't necessarily entirely susbcribe to the overwhelmign enthusiasm. But I'm interested in sharing some of my ideas on how to develop the product into not just "another gamemode", as I see it.

1) Strategic Depth

The first thing is that there needs to be meta-level gameplay that happens beyond just the matches themselves. Also, this needs to be intentionally designed and intended gameplay, not just gameplay resulting from questionable decisions (ie. late hour blitzes towards winning planets before ceasefires isn't really cool gameplay, but an unintended consequence).

What do I mean by meta-level gameplay? I think in some interview it was mentioned that in the future we might see CW operate in a way that you'd first have to clear a landing for your dropship, before moving onto an invasion. I think this kind of idea needs to stop being a pipe dream that exists in the far away future, to becoming a design goal for the short term.

Battles could progress in stages: first requiring the establishment of a beachhead or landing zone, before moving onto an invasion proper. Base assaults could be only the third phase in an invasion and the last one at that.

Each phase would have its own drop deck limitations and indeed could feature content for smaller sized groups. Perhaps beachheads for example are established by smaller and lighter recon forces. Both things - drop deck variety and content for smaller groups - are sorely needed for CW. Once a beachhead is established, the invasion proper starts and drop decks get heavier.

With success in the subsequent phases, the defenders could push the attackers back to their landing zone and only with effort by the attackers should "lanes" open up to attack the bases themselves, which would actually win the planet over. This would probably slow down the process of taking over a planet (while making the process more granular and interesting), which might not be a bad idea if/since we are moving to three ceasefires per day.

Having added complexity like this not only provides a way to add different gameplay elements, it adds much needed variety and lastly (but certainly not least) it gives unit commanders meaningful decisions to make. Should we try opening up this planet, or now that Hesperus is opened for invasion, maybe we should switch our focus to there? Different units might excel at different parts, etc. This way there would be a larger strategic layer to the invasions.

2) Planets

Obviously, there needs to be more reasons to control planets than just having your tags on it. Different planets should also provide different benefits, terrain, etc. This also ties into making unit commanders have to make meaningful decisions. Do we want to defend this planet, when that juicy planet just opened up for invasion? The round-table discussed benefits in some detail and lots of cool ideas where thrown around. 'Mech factories, bases for units, access to supply caches, etc. The point I'm making is that these aren't just rewards for gameplay (which they certainly are), but they are root for meaningful gameplay decisions on the strategic level. Suddenly the starmap is not just a collection of indifferent dots, but they each have meaning.

It would be great if the planets would also have significance to the faction at large, not just the units controlling them.

3) Miscellaneous

Currently, the 'Merc life - bouncing from one faction to the other - seems a little too convenient and straightforward for most players. I think units choosing to stick with only one faction should definitely see some benefits that make choosing one more attractive.

Obviously, the tactics of attacking bases needs to get a little more complicated. This needs that the maps are tinkered with, but shouldn't stop there. However, I'm fairly confident that it will happen and it isn't the gist of my suggestion here.

Discuss.

[Davers]

GoGo Yubari, on 15 January 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

So, I've been thinking about Community Warfare. Just as a caveat, I hope I won't sound too negative, but this does include some criticism after all.

I think the system as it currently exists is a very bare skeleton of a product. It's pretty much the skinniest version of a community warfare system that I could envision for the game. That was a bit of a disappointment. That said, playing it proves to be fun enough and there is promise. It'll probably turn out into a decent product, which will broaden the way I can enjoy MWO. However, based on the foundation that is being laid, I am feeling a little underwhelmed by what is attempted here. Sure, everything is expandable ad infinitum, but the way the groundwork for something is laid out tells you about its possible future. To call it a beta (instead of an alpha), suggests this as well.

I just listened to NGNG's community warfare roundtable and overall there was a lot of good ideas thrown around, though I don't necessarily entirely susbcribe to the overwhelmign enthusiasm. But I'm interested in sharing some of my ideas on how to develop the product into not just "another gamemode", as I see it.

1) Strategic Depth

The first thing is that there needs to be meta-level gameplay that happens beyond just the matches themselves. Also, this needs to be intentionally designed and intended gameplay, not just gameplay resulting from questionable decisions (ie. late hour blitzes towards winning planets before ceasefires isn't really cool gameplay, but an unintended consequence).

What do I mean by meta-level gameplay? I think in some interview it was mentioned that in the future we might see CW operate in a way that you'd first have to clear a landing for your dropship, before moving onto an invasion. I think this kind of idea needs to stop being a pipe dream that exists in the far away future, to becoming a design goal for the short term.

Battles could progress in stages: first requiring the establishment of a beachhead or landing zone, before moving onto an invasion proper. Base assaults could be only the third phase in an invasion and the last one at that.

Each phase would have its own drop deck limitations and indeed could feature content for smaller sized groups. Perhaps beachheads for example are established by smaller and lighter recon forces. Both things - drop deck variety and content for smaller groups - are sorely needed for CW. Once a beachhead is established, the invasion proper starts and drop decks get heavier.

With success in the subsequent phases, the defenders could push the attackers back to their landing zone and only with effort by the attackers should "lanes" open up to attack the bases themselves, which would actually win the planet over. This would probably slow down the process of taking over a planet (while making the process more granular and interesting), which might not be a bad idea if/since we are moving to three ceasefires per day.

Having added complexity like this not only provides a way to add different gameplay elements, it adds much needed variety and lastly (but certainly not least) it gives unit commanders meaningful decisions to make. Should we try opening up this planet, or now that Hesperus is opened for invasion, maybe we should switch our focus to there? Different units might excel at different parts, etc. This way there would be a larger strategic layer to the invasions.

2) Planets

Obviously, there needs to be more reasons to control planets than just having your tags on it. Different planets should also provide different benefits, terrain, etc. This also ties into making unit commanders have to make meaningful decisions. Do we want to defend this planet, when that juicy planet just opened up for invasion? The round-table discussed benefits in some detail and lots of cool ideas where thrown around. 'Mech factories, bases for units, access to supply caches, etc. The point I'm making is that these aren't just rewards for gameplay (which they certainly are), but they are root for meaningful gameplay decisions on the strategic level. Suddenly the starmap is not just a collection of indifferent dots, but they each have meaning.

It would be great if the planets would also have significance to the faction at large, not just the units controlling them.

3) Miscellaneous

Currently, the 'Merc life - bouncing from one faction to the other - seems a little too convenient and straightforward for most players. I think units choosing to stick with only one faction should definitely see some benefits that make choosing one more attractive.

Obviously, the tactics of attacking bases needs to get a little more complicated. This needs that the maps are tinkered with, but shouldn't stop there. However, I'm fairly confident that it will happen and it isn't the gist of my suggestion here.

Discuss.

Well, NGNG kind of has to be upbeat and positive. Just like you will never see Chris Hardwick saying "Wow, tonight's episode of Walking Dead sucks!". Also PGI likes constructive criticism over whining.

[GoGo Yubari]

Davers, on 15 January 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

Well, NGNG kind of has to be upbeat and positive. Just like you will never see Chris Hardwick saying "Wow, tonight's episode of Walking Dead sucks!". Also PGI likes constructive criticism over whining.

Ayup, not that I'd expect it either, was just an observation. Anyway, I think I did provide some hopefully constructive criticism as well.

[norus]

It'd be cool to have some different fight sizes with different objectives. Mercenary, you have been hired to take a lance and destroy the airfield at the following coordinates. Light resistance is expected.

[LordKnightFandragon]

CW sounds like its going to be vastly improved very soon.

[Davers]

GoGo Yubari, on 15 January 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

Ayup, not that I'd expect it either, was just an observation. Anyway, I think I did provide some hopefully constructive criticism as well.

No, your post was really nice to read. I liked the ideas. I didn't listen to the Roundtable, but I hope they had good ideas for PGI too.