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Dawn Of A New Beginning Between Csj, Cgb And Eventually The Rest Of The Clans And Inner Sphere


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#661 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:33 AM

View PostJaroth Corbett, on 03 March 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

I typed ilClan not ilKhan. The ilClan cannot be predetermined, since it it not based on elections, but rather on results i.e. the Clan that conquers Terra but in lieu of that, seeing as that might never happen, the Clan that performs best for the invasion; which would include the capturing & HOLDING of x number of planets for y length of time.

If you want to go into the process of selecting an ilKhan which will NEVER happen for this game, I can break that down for you from a lore perspective.


We are Gamers.... as such we are UNCONSTRAINED by Lore, though we can choose to be INFORMED by it.

I remain adamant that the best response to Marik's new Star League is to hold the aborted Clan Grand Kurultai, recognize an IlKhan and CHOOSE an ilClan.

Let us bring some order to ANYTHING that resembles more than one Clan's parochial pursuit of what a handful of gamers think best.

Why not have a three day debate followed by voting on ilKhan / ilClan completely on one of the CLOSED Clan websites?

I can not speak for Lukoi as I believe he is still traveling on business for another 4-days but I think the Smoke Alliance website he has maintained could serve ably as a central repository of a Clan Grand Kurultai.

Even if you and other naysayers are right and the POPULAR VOTE (simple majority) proves conclusively that the time is NOT right for an ilKhan and IlClan to be chose...


Guess what?



...the simple process of holding 3-days of debate and discussion and then a POPULAR vote, will have proofed-the-route for future Clan Grand Kurultai AND the Clans will be making one heck of a statement to the Inner Sphere that the Clans are at least capable to such and INCLUSIVE, GAMER-CENTRIC (rather than Unit-Leader centric) approach to Community Warfare.


View PostSeth, on 04 March 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

I nominate Galaxy Commander III Viper Nine of KCOM to represent CJF in your initiative. I pointed him to your thread and he expressed a certain type of interest in joining your council!

View PostAiramel, on 04 March 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

Since I known him as a lancemate in many battles, I can vouche for his honor and grand skill as a mechwarrior. He has earned his grand achievement and deserves this great honor!


Well bargained and done... I shall extend ongoing PM access to Viper Nine now.

Thank you.

View PostCimarb, on 04 March 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

While I agree that it cannot be predetermined, I do not agree with altering the criteria. The only ilClan is the one that takes Terra. There should be no alternative.


CHOOSING to be constrained by Lore is a very acceptable alternative... though as gamers, I am sure a fair amount of our fellow gamers would like to have a say in this particular topic.

A PUBLIC debate and simple-majority-vote could be healthy for CLAN UNITY.

#662 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:45 AM

More rank 20 players, nice!

I think there should be some inclusive platform though. Sure, rank 20 is nice but having experience doesn't mean one is always right. Good ideas know no borders :)

Anyway, looking for first CW rank 20 player!

#663 CyclonerM

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:52 PM

Choosing an IlKhan should be fine if possible - the Clans did have one during Op. Revival.

However, i do not think it would be possible to "elect" an IlClan without upsetting the other Clans.

Quote

For the day will come and our kin will stand

On Terra's firm soil, ready to rebuilt
The Star League with their hearts and hands.
But who shall lead? Upon whose shoulders
Will the burden lie? The answer is the test; The test is the journey. Whichever Clan
Carves its way through the barbarians
To reach that fabled cradle of us all
Shall be the vehicle of the League's rebirth. Upon
The Star League throne shall sit that Clan's
Wisest Khan. So should it be - So shall it be.
-- The Remembrance, Passage 72, Verse 22, Lines 14-2


#664 Vassago Rain

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:03 PM

What is this heresy?

#665 Revis Volek

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:14 PM

From the sounds of it we already have an ilKhan....all hail the OP.

Why dont we wait unitl CW is no longer in BETA? Since we dont even know what changes will be made from here on out.

#666 Cimarb

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:15 PM

ilKhan has already been determined: https://twitter.com/...886017847398400

ilClan is the Clan that successfully takes Terra.

I am all for Clan Unity, but not at all for saying any player, or group of players, is better than anyone else. That is the exact opposite of Clan Unity, sorry.

View PostDarthRevis, on 04 March 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

From the sounds of it we already have an ilKhan....all hail the OP.

Please do not encourage him, lest he think you are serious...

#667 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:28 PM

View PostSeth, on 04 March 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

I nominate Galaxy Commander III Viper Nine of KCOM to represent CJF in your initiative. I pointed him to your thread and he expressed a certain type of interest in joining your council!


Please have Viper Nine PM me, I simply can not find "Viper Nine" as an addressee.

#668 QueenBlade

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:39 PM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 04 March 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Please have Viper Nine PM me, I simply can not find "Viper Nine" as an addressee.


Cause its "Vapor NINE"

http://mwomercs.com/...282-vapor-nine/

#669 Cimarb

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:51 PM

View PostQueenBlade, on 04 March 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:




#670 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 04:38 PM

View PostQueenBlade, on 04 March 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Cause its "Vapor NINE"

http://mwomercs.com/...282-vapor-nine/


ty, PM invite sent.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 04 March 2015 - 04:52 PM.


#671 N0MAD

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 04:53 PM

What a load of BS,, while Clans use mercs and People can change factions at a whim or use alt accounts this silly faction system can be exploited and therefore just pointless.

#672 VoodooLou Kerensky

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:16 PM

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:


While I agree with you that mercs need to be "put on a leash" so to speak, there are some things that need to be "fixed" simply from a player standpoint:
  • Merc units should operate via contracts.
They do. The contracts however are broad in nature and not lucrative enough. Mercs should have the option to pick a clan/IS faction, and then pick a front to fight on. This will bind them to where they are needed to be. If no fighting is occurring on the front that they have contracted, then they still have the option to fight on the other fronts, but they will not gain any bonuses as this is "extra" work, not contracted work. They will however gain any planetary bonuses from planets that they conquer. Bonuses should be given to fronts not well defended and percentage boosts should come into play the longer the merc unit stays with the faction. Hopefully planetary bonuses also come in once we are out of Beta. If a merc unit leaves a faction, then they forfeit all bonuses/planets gained. (planet stays in faction, just reverts back to "neutral" merc unit stays in planetary history.)




That seems more like How Mercs should be and unless they are Granted a planet (like Davion did for Wolfs Dragoons by giving them OutReach.) I dont think any planet should have Merc Tags solely

*snip from Sarna* Quite a few among the vast number of mercenaries stand out, owing to their special history, outlook or connections. The Eridani Light Horse, for example, is one of those that take pride in being a remnant from the SLDF. Others, like Wolf's Dragoons or Snord's Irregulars, have their own agenda besides their mercenary business. Some units such as the Kell Hounds are not truly independent, but are affiliated with one particular House or faction; others are tied to a specific landhold or planet, like the Northwind Highlanders
Some mercenary forces are mutinous regular forces who abandoned their original masters; examples include the 21st Centauri Lanciers and Hansen's Roughriders. Conversely, others are tied to a single employer through long-time contracts, and occasionally become regular forces of that employer, likeMcCarron's Armored Cavalry and Team Banzai. *end snip*

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

  • Merc units can get a contract from a House unit (i.e. "permanent" and possibly even "long-term") only.
No, they should be able to move freely, just have greater consequences for constant movement (outlined above...ie loss of bonuses). Perhaps even a tonnage restriction for the first few days of fighting with a new faction, which gradually lightens to operational standards after a one week contract. Maybe even the loss of all loyalty points for that faction, switching from Clan to IS or vise versa, switching to a rival faction. All bonuses received would remain, but rank and titles would be lost, meaning that if you left a Clan and went IS, you lose all loyalty points in the clan and would have to grind it out again (bonuses would not repeat). This would come in handy if some faction related bonuses are put in game (dropping with lore units, special faction camo, etc...)




Traditionally Mercs have one loyalty and one loyalty only; The Merc Outfit theyre in. Mercs are in it for the Money and there-fore shouldnt get Loyalty points, UNLESS like its stated in the snip from Sarna and they get taken on as Regular Forces and are Mercenaries in name only.

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

  • Merc units can have only one contract at any given time.
They do now, this will not change. Once a contract is up, they should be free to move or stay. If systems like the ones outlined above and in so many other posts, are actually implemented in game, I wouldn't mind if merc contracts are up every week (say every Monday) and the unit needs to chose if they stay (increase faction bonuses) or leave (lose faction and planetary bonuses)



They can have as many contracts as they want but being able to fulfill the Terms of the Contract, negotiated by Merc and Employer, is another matter. As someone else pointed out the URL says it all for ALL of us; MWOMercs. Granted things change if your a Clanner but that will be left out of my reply for now.

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

  • Merc and House units should perform their own negotiations on how much the latter will pay the former.
No, players should never have control over other players. Maybe a bounty system for mercs (hunt this unit or this player) but all contracts should remain in "NPC" or dev hands.




I can tentatively agree with that but until the Devs take an active hand as portraying the Houses directly things get too fluid for a NPC to direct Mercs, NPC's have if/then statements that govern what they do and so are linear in 'thinking'.

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

  • All c-bill earnings generated by Merc actions go to the House unit. How much of that goes to the mercs depends on the terms of the contract.
Mercs should earn more cbills than loyalists and they should keep every last one. Loyalists should earn more LP then mercs and loyalist units should only have access to the last 5 ranks in a faction (if the mercs get a faction of their own, this would eliminate the need to "cap" merc loyalty. If mercs do get their own faction, then LP should be earned by the fights they are in, and still be earned at a slightly slower rate, to counter balance their higher income of cbills).




Mercs get no LP or any of the perks that come with it, they arent there for Loyalty they are there for the money only PERIOD. If they want LP they become Regular forces and are Mercs in name only. If they get their own Faction they dont get any of the House's goodies they get their own 'flavored' with a reference to the other factions to denote the differences.

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

  • Either party has the right to cancel a contract at any time.
Mercs should be able to cancel whenever they want. Loyalists should be able to rank merc units only. Players should never have control or power over other units/players. A ranking system though would let factions know what they are getting. Yes trolls can take advantage of this system as well, but if a unit performs well, I am sure that for every troll there would be 2 positive reviews.



Whole Units of Trolls will appear does 'SQUAWK!' bring anything to mind? How about KORE Im sure some of y'all remember getting pissed of by us on MSN Zone and showing up to fight us (which is what we wanted anyways, but garbage attracts more flys than honey to put things in perspective). The best way to stop Trolls? Having absolutely nothing to do with them, yes they might hurt you a tad by ignoring them but in the reality of things unless they show up at your house the only thing being affected is your E-Peen.

#673 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:22 PM

Taking away LPs from mercs would deal them a serious blow because many are after the low-hanging but very sweet fruit - Mechbays and such. Most mercs lack interest in higher ranks but the current rank system still offers them something valuable for their effort. It might be too harsh to take this away from them.

I would go for changing the current multiplier system for longer contracts: 1 week -10% LPs, 2 weeks +0%, one month +25%, perma +50%. This would let the mercs still get their goodies, but it would anchor them to their faction for a bit longer, thus downscaling our current switch-fest issues.

#674 CyclonerM

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 06:06 AM

Loyalty rewards are meant to reward loyalty, not faction swapping. They are not working as intended and thus they need to be changed somehow.

#675 Cimarb

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:00 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 05 March 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

Loyalty rewards are meant to reward loyalty, not faction swapping. They are not working as intended and thus they need to be changed somehow.

I still say there should be a loss of loyalty points when you switch (aside from the possibility of combat kills). It should never lower your rank, necessarily, but it should remove all progress in the current rank, for example. So, if you had 20,000/40,000 to rank X, and switch factions, you go back to 0/40,000 and have to start over when/if you come back to the faction.

More importantly, though, I think removing unit tags would have a huge influence on faction hopping. It makes zero since to have a unit that changes faction retain their holdings in previous factions, and it would dramatically reduce the hopping.

#676 Revis Volek

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:00 AM

View PostCimarb, on 05 March 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

I still say there should be a loss of loyalty points when you switch (aside from the possibility of combat kills). It should never lower your rank, necessarily, but it should remove all progress in the current rank, for example. So, if you had 20,000/40,000 to rank X, and switch factions, you go back to 0/40,000 and have to start over when/if you come back to the faction.

More importantly, though, I think removing unit tags would have a huge influence on faction hopping. It makes zero since to have a unit that changes faction retain their holdings in previous factions, and it would dramatically reduce the hopping.



I agree with this 100% Cimarb, if you leave a factions the planets should just go tagless again. Why would your name sake be left on things if you left to join the enemy?

Also on the LP aspect, I think mercs should have their own "Faction" more or less with their own rewards. Make them earn Merc Points (MP) and allow it to be generated the same way. The longer you sign up the more MP you get because of loyalty multipliers much like we get now. Also, if they repeat contracts often with the same faction they can get a bonus or multiplier (One week with Steiner, no bonus, 2 weeks with Davion, 5% loyalty for length but then go back to Steiner for 2 weeks, 5% repeat contract bonus and 5% length bonus on MP points)and give them ranks and rewards system like we have now so they dont miss out on anything anyone else can get.

I dont really see why mercs were left out....and the whole thing with people being able to join your unit for a week and throw all there money into seems kinda flawed as well. Should not be able to donate money to coffers unless you sign a long contract and then break it costing you more money. Just seems like a way to farm once we have coffers do something. Could make accounts, use the Cadet bonus' and just save them and in a matter of 50 matches have 5 or so mill to donate and then rinse and repeat. Seems like a lot of work for 5 mill but i dont put it past people.

#677 ApolloKaras

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:18 AM

View PostNoesis, on 03 March 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:


I would suggest starting with more inclusive policies, as in reality the soceity you would be representing needs to include all points of perspective and not just a limited subset as per the intentional level 20 club/clique ideal.

In this sense you then have a perspective of actual reality at the time as opposed to assuming that "potential" is the best or only understood way to govern these things.

Experience is useful as a point of perspective but it is not the all determining wisdom in being able to understand MWO mechanics or its prinicipals. In fact by not supporting more policies with inclusivity, equality and diversity motivating your political stance you could simply end up alienating yourself.

Unsure then however if this is as intended since you recognise or identify this in a sense of "#kingmaking" which assumes a poistion of authority where an individual has supreme power as opposed to recognising that soceity holds the power and is empowered to govern itself in the more modern understood democratic process.


View PostDarthRevis, on 04 March 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

From the sounds of it we already have an ilKhan....all hail the OP.

Why dont we wait unitl CW is no longer in BETA? Since we dont even know what changes will be made from here on out.


This...

What you're suggesting is a king pin Prussian, that Star League lasted what, a week Lol? You should take an MS style approach to this without the unit tags all being the same. Which is every unit votes on a particular attack / defense etc. Ditch the king/ilKhan insert lore term here. However this seems wasted effort seeing as any attack lane that opens we take the planet with haste.

#678 CyclonerM

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:38 AM

View PostCimarb, on 05 March 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

I still say there should be a loss of loyalty points when you switch (aside from the possibility of combat kills). It should never lower your rank, necessarily, but it should remove all progress in the current rank, for example. So, if you had 20,000/40,000 to rank X, and switch factions, you go back to 0/40,000 and have to start over when/if you come back to the faction.

More importantly, though, I think removing unit tags would have a huge influence on faction hopping. It makes zero since to have a unit that changes faction retain their holdings in previous factions, and it would dramatically reduce the hopping.

Has anyone considered the fact that it does not make any sense for a mercenary to achieve a faction military rank? :blink:

Besides, we have to think about what planet tags represent. Are they just a "trophy" for the unit that put the most effort on a planet?

Or do they mean that unit is garrisoning the planet?

In any case, i would like to see the tags removed when you change faction, because your previous one would not like having an enemy unit's tags on their planet. Maybe.

#679 CyclonerM

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:09 PM

View PostJTSR, on 05 March 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:


  • Merc' do not get faction Tag when they take a contract, unless they decide to become permanent or very long term say six months contract.

It makes sense, actually, because the merc unit is not fighting for itself, but for its employing noble/corporation/House/Clan. It could be something as small as a tiny banner in a corner, but it should be showed the current affiliation of a merc unit.

Quote

As per the Lore iIKhan can not be decided until Terra is taken and then it should involve trials etc.

Actually, the IlClan cannot be "chosen" but the IlKhan is elected by the Grand Council aka all the Clans. During op. Revival Leo Showers was the IlKhan first, then Ulric Kerensky was chosen. However, if i am not mistaken, the IlClan will automatically see its Khan become the new IlKhan for life, and all the next IlKhans would have to be chosen from that Clan.

*Puts out the Jaroth-signal* :ph34r:

#680 Deathlike

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 01:07 AM

"Faction Loyalty" should actually be defined by how long one stays in the same faction with consecutive contracts that are not of the permanent variety.

I'm still here for the rewards though, but that's not even the point.

For instance... a player taking 4 7-day contracts with the same faction should build more or less the same loyalty than one that took a 28-day contract... although obviously the bonuses will be beneficial for those that took a 28-day contract for "valuing stability".

Growth of "some value" that measures your time with a faction is accumulated and decays greatly depending on the number and/or length contracts with another faction (some people will want to get out to get even the basic mechbay reward from other factions after all).

The bonus for being loyalty will increase the loyalty point bonus by some portion, but never to equal or exceed someone on a more permanent contract. Those that are disloyal often (like breaking said contract) will either lose said bonus... if not outright have a loyal bonus penalty (probably 10 to 15% at most) once coming back to said faction.

Breaking contracts often should allow a negative value whereas taking a new contract after completing one should not cause a negative value... just decay towards a bonus of 0.


It shouldn't be THAT complicated though.





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