16 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

First let me start by saying that this is a fairly large departure from TT, so if that offends you, you can skip to the end and complain about it on those terms.

How about we double the max armour on every section of every mech (except maybe heads), but do not change armour per ton at all.

This has the following effects:

• Increases TTK by allowing people to stack armour on the sections they die to the most
  
• Increases TTK by making people take less firepower in exchange for the extra armour
  
• Adds a lot of tactical thinking to mech design, since you wouldn't be able to simply max all armour sections and call it a day, no mech would have the tonnage to do that and have reasonable speed/firepower
  
• Adds a layer of confusion about what part to aim for on the battlefield, since you will no longer be able to tell if its a STD or XL engine based on loadout, which would also increase TTK
  
• Gives Ferro Fibrous armour a reason to exist, since a super highly armoured mech might well save more tonnage from FF than ES
  
• Increases the value of standard engines relative to XL since you would be able to protect from death by simply doubling CT armour. As a counterpoint allows certain mechs regarded as XL deathtraps to mount one by increasing ST armour.
  
• Works as a nerf to Clans since they cannot free up the same tonnage IS mechs can and thus would be much less able to take advantage of it. (would definitely mean buffs for the weak clan mechs)
  
• Doesn't interfere with the balance between ballistics, energy and missiles unlike changes to the heat system.
  
• Given that mechs wouldn't be doubling up all over gives a reason to shoot for arms etc, adding to the 'giant war machines ripping each other to bits slowly' feel.

Might interact with some quirks in an unbalanced way (eg DRG 1N doubling armour on that arm only) but thats easily solvable by changing the quirks.
Might also need slight increases in ammo per ton for ballistics/missiles but not much id say.

Thoughts/downsides i hadn't thought of?

[Brody319]

I think we already doubled armor once.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

TTK is probably the best it has been in a long time. I really dont see the point in increasing it, if anything I think it would hurt gameplay. You only die fast when you get jumped, which either means you got focus fired by a good team, your team is getting rolled, or you made a bad tactical decision.

Some mechs need more armor, not all mechs

[Widowmaker1981]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 16 January 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

TTK is probably the best it has been in a long time. I really dont see the point in increasing it, if anything I think it would hurt gameplay. You only die fast when you get jumped, which either means you got focus fired by a good team, your team is getting rolled, or you made a bad tactical decision.

Some mechs need more armor, not all mechs

To be fair, i also dont think its a problem - but it could proably stand to be longer. This is more a reponse/alternative to people asking for a massive change to the heat system which i think would cause terrible damage to the balance between Energy/Ballistic/Missile (which is imo in a very good place right now, apart from clan ACs)

It also adds lot and lots more thinking to mech design, which is a good thing.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 16 January 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[Fate 6]

So what you're saying is that I could shift all the arm armor on a TDR-9S to the legs and torsos? Seems balanced.....

Remember waaaaaay back when DHS were released? One of the devs said they couldn't give us true doubles because then a jenner could core an Atlas in only a few seconds. Well, we have the FS9-A now so that's a reality. What would fix TTK is shifting the heat system to lower max heat, increase dissipation, and give heat penalties to accuracy/movement

[Widowmaker1981]

Fate 6, on 16 January 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

So what you're saying is that I could shift all the arm armor on a TDR-9S to the legs and torsos? Seems balanced.....

Remember waaaaaay back when DHS were released? One of the devs said they couldn't give us true doubles because then a jenner could core an Atlas in only a few seconds. Well, we have the FS9-A now so that's a reality. What would fix TTK is shifting the heat system to lower max heat, increase dissipation, and give heat penalties to accuracy/movement

And watch everyone and their mum move to AC5 boats to dodge the issue.

And the TDR 9S is already stripping its arms for more heatsinks, so any additional armour comes at a cost of firepower...

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 16 January 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[Burktross]

no pls

[LordKnightFandragon]

Widowmaker1981, on 16 January 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

And watch everyone and their mum move to AC5 boats to dodge the issue.

And the TDR 9S is already stripping its arms for more heatsinks, so any additional armour comes at a cost of firepower...

Only mech that can "boat" an AC5 is a DWF or King Crab...I guess DWF/KGC master race? BUt yeah, the endless hunt for the meta, pretty much why PVP games become boring. Its endless nerfs to everything as people try to endlessly nerf one meta and switch then nerf that one and come with another. ..ugh.

And if people did in fact "boat" AC5, it would be like 2-3 of them, which pretty much does end up having the same result as you NOT taking a massive laser vomit build that can deal 60 dmg....

AC5 on non quirked mechs would be neither deadly, nor carry enough ammo to matter. UNless maybe its a King Crab.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I would however like to see FF actually functional, allow it to increase the armor the %20 or so per section, it eats up crits etc.

[STEF_]

I think the true solution would be solving the convergence issue.
But sadly PGI will never do it.

[Bernard Matthaios]

Why not increase weapon cool downs across the board?

[Zippitt]

TTK feels exceptionally small with 12vs12 death balls. I don't think TTK should be changed until maps and objectives are grown where you might have more smaller scale engagements. Otherwise, they will have to re-balance yet again, assuming they get some of the CW features they want in.

In 4vs4 I think TTK will drop significantly for peakaboo games, death brawls might still quick, but not as they are now.

As things are now, even an assault poking ones nose out at the wrong place and the wrong time is almost instant death.

[Sprouticus]

Bernard Matthaios, on 16 January 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

Why not increase weapon cool downs across the board?

Any significant addition to cooldowns HEAVILY favors fast mechs with short range weapons. They have more time to close over open ground without fear of getting taken out.

[kapusta11]

Have you tried, you know, L2P?

[Johnny Z]

Widowmaker1981, on 16 January 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

First let me start by saying that this is a fairly large departure from TT, so if that offends you, you can skip to the end and complain about it on those terms.

How about we double the max armour on every section of every mech (except maybe heads), but do not change armour per ton at all.

This has the following effects:

• Increases TTK by allowing people to stack armour on the sections they die to the most
  
• Increases TTK by making people take less firepower in exchange for the extra armour
  
• Adds a lot of tactical thinking to mech design, since you wouldn't be able to simply max all armour sections and call it a day, no mech would have the tonnage to do that and have reasonable speed/firepower
  
• Adds a layer of confusion about what part to aim for on the battlefield, since you will no longer be able to tell if its a STD or XL engine based on loadout, which would also increase TTK
  
• Gives Ferro Fibrous armour a reason to exist, since a super highly armoured mech might well save more tonnage from FF than ES
  
• Increases the value of standard engines relative to XL since you would be able to protect from death by simply doubling CT armour. As a counterpoint allows certain mechs regarded as XL deathtraps to mount one by increasing ST armour.
  
• Works as a nerf to Clans since they cannot free up the same tonnage IS mechs can and thus would be much less able to take advantage of it. (would definitely mean buffs for the weak clan mechs)
  
• Doesn't interfere with the balance between ballistics, energy and missiles unlike changes to the heat system.
  
• Given that mechs wouldn't be doubling up all over gives a reason to shoot for arms etc, adding to the 'giant war machines ripping each other to bits slowly' feel.

Might interact with some quirks in an unbalanced way (eg DRG 1N doubling armour on that arm only) but thats easily solvable by changing the quirks.
Might also need slight increases in ammo per ton for ballistics/missiles but not much id say.

Thoughts/downsides i hadn't thought of?

This is definately worth a look at.

In fact taking a good minute or two to think about it I like it.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 January 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Atlas with 77 tons of armor and one SL, that is all.

(forgot to add an engine)

Edited by Lil Cthulhu, 16 January 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Play smarter, not harder to increase your personal TTK.

Personally, I often make it to the end of the match. MWO doesn't need an overhaul to protect pilots from their mistakes; it needs pilots to learn from them instead.