78 replies to this topic

[Kudzu]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 24 November 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

Since he's an IS pilot that alpha strike would miss anyway and his cockpit would be crushed in shortly thereafter by the righteous fist of a Prime.

Well, since you're using a named character the Battlemaster pilot should be one too... How about Hanse Davion? Or do I need to find someone with thicker plot armor?

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Kudzu, on 24 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

Well, since you're using a named character the Battlemaster pilot should be one too... How about Hanse Davion? Or do I need to find someone with thicker plot armor?

I'll see your plot armor and raise you 1 matrix of leadership and seven series re-imaginings.

[Pariah Devalis]

I see your matrix of leadership and raise you one Kai Allard Liao.

Give him something with a PPC or Gauss RIfle. Or.. Ya know... a couple toothpicks and make him think he's behind enemy lines or something.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 24 November 2011 - 10:37 AM.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

OK, thats a good pot.... I call with...

Devastator.

[Korbyn McColl]

Welcome to MechWarrior!

Battlemechs have a human appearance because of the neurohelm used by their pilots. This helmet permits the mech to respond exactly how the mechwarrior's own body would respond to his thoughts.

Oh, and I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you really are new to MechWarrior/BattleTech lore and not just some troll.

[Captain Nice HD]

Hmm...

Spoiler

What's your verdict, guys? Separated at birth on the factory floor?

[StoneRhino]

I'm glad that you are a fan of the activision mw games, but you do realize that the game predates the Vulture/Maddog, right? That and it is only a single mech design out of ...how many now? Not all designs are bi-peds, not all have hands. Warhammer, Awesome, Maurauder, Longbow, Rakasha, Urbanmech, Raptor, Owens, nexus, Naginata, Naga, Madcat/Timberwolf, Direwolf, Masakari, Uziel, and many more do not have hands.

Goliath, tarantula, thunder stallion, Barghest, and others are quad mechs, clearly not having hands at all.


mechwarrior games are based off of a tabletop game called Battletech. The designs that we are going to see in this game are all from some of the oldest battlemech designs in the game. So what is a mech and what is not has already been long established. As for the transformers reference, you used the bumblebee that was in the movies, not the short, squat little bumblebee that most of us recognize as being the real deal. The bumblebee that would be closer to a mech then the overly human looking robot that he is now.

[The1WithTheGun]

MacWarrior, on 24 November 2011 - 03:59 AM, said:

Pardon me but, aren't Mechs too humanized?

No - that is intentional, mainly due to how it is controlled and even marketed.

Quote

And what about having fingers?? What are they for in a giant metal war machine?

For picking things up - obviously.

Quote

They should be like vertical tanks or something that you "drive", and not robots, right?

Not quite. They aren't "driven" like tanks or your family car - there is a bit more to it and that's where the neurohelmets come in.

I think you need to forget their appearances in the previous mechwarrior games, this game seems to be more aligned with the actual Battletech fluff and history.

Edited by The1WithTheGun, 24 November 2011 - 06:20 PM.

[Black Sunder]

Optimus Prime would transform into ..... a Coolant Truck?

Edited by Black Sunder, 24 November 2011 - 06:22 PM.

[CynicalCyanide]

Hear hear OP! I couldn't agree more. I DO think there is some place for semi humanoid mechwarriors (ie: like the atlas) BUT - They should emphasize the fact that their primary design is a battle mech, and that any semblance to a humanoid is merely sentimental, superficial, visual styling (ie: like the "face" on an atlas). However, things like giant fists i agree are stupid, unless there is a justifiable reason to have big lumps of metal for other reasons that can be styled into fists. Also: Since you can only make a finite number of humanoid resembling robots before you start resorting to making them look completely stupid (My god there are lot of ugly mechs) the number of them in mechwarrior should be intentionally low.


PS: Seeing as the thread quickly devolved to Optimus prime Vs. Mechwarrior, i didnt bother really reading the thread all the way through. Sorry.

[victor kerensky]

Artanis Creed, on 24 November 2011 - 10:04 AM, said:

Like for instance...a Zaku would lose so horribly to ANYTHING in bt...seriously almost as bad as TIE fighters..

Unless said Zaku was piloted by Char.

[victor kerensky]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 24 November 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ehhh I think a gundam wins against nearly any mech. Why? because it can fly and lolsaber. Any Gundam newer than the original could do to BT mechs what they do in the Gundam anime. It just wouldn't be fair.

Exactly this. Especially if you start pulling Mobile Suits from Gundam WIng or later. Lol, I wonder how many 'Mechs the Virtue or Wing Zero would take out in one shot...

[Black Sunder]

What wins against ALL mechs is Gurren Lagann.

[CobraFive]

MacWarrior, on 24 November 2011 - 03:59 AM, said:

Pardon me but, aren't Mechs too humanized?
From an old activision MW lover point of view, these MWO machines seem a bit too humanized. The way they stand @ the pics, their body parts (some do seem to wear diapers?? *Atlas).
And what about having fingers?? What are they for in a giant metal war machine? Unless you get a key assigned to the midle finger and the 'up yours' correspondent animation (hint) what else could possible justify them? And i could go on with hands, arms, eyes and mouths... i mean, come on, battle mechs, IMHO are supposed to be raw.. "simple" guns-on-legs machines. They should be like vertical tanks or something that you "drive", and not robots, right? Giving them human resemblances turns them more cute Transformers rather than frightening Battle Mechs i think. Yes, alright, not all have those "appendices", but still..

This is a transformer
http://betow.files.w...ansformers3.jpg

This is a Battle Mech
http://media.moddb.c.../8528/67764.jpg

Just to keep you focused

Can't wait for it to come Live thou. Keep it up Piranhas

No THIS is a battlemech
http://media.giantbo...punch_super.jpg

They've always had hands/fists, since the very beginning, I'm glad they are still there. It just wouldn't be battletech/mechwarrior if the designs were changed so completely.

[EDMW CSN]

MacWarrior, on 24 November 2011 - 03:59 AM, said:

Pardon me but, aren't Mechs too humanized?
From an old activision MW lover point of view, these MWO machines seem a bit too humanized. The way they stand @ the pics, their body parts (some do seem to wear diapers?? *Atlas).
And what about having fingers?? What are they for in a giant metal war machine? Unless you get a key assigned to the midle finger and the 'up yours' correspondent animation (hint) what else could possible justify them? And i could go on with hands, arms, eyes and mouths... i mean, come on, battle mechs, IMHO are supposed to be raw.. "simple" guns-on-legs machines. They should be like vertical tanks or something that you "drive", and not robots, right? Giving them human resemblances turns them more cute Transformers rather than frightening Battle Mechs i think. Yes, alright, not all have those "appendices", but still..

This is a transformer
http://betow.files.w...ansformers3.jpg

This is a Battle Mech
http://media.moddb.c.../8528/67764.jpg

Just to keep you focused

Can't wait for it to come Live thou. Keep it up Piranhas

Maybe you are just a 1 post troll but whatever.....

Quote

The close quarters combat would be described as the most brutal in the Battle for Coventry. Falcon and Dragoons 'mechs used every weapon in their arsenal including taking steel girders from rubble and using them as clubs....."

http://www.sarna.net...ncursion_(3058)

Mechs have being punching out each other, kicking, slamming giant steel pillars at each other, throwing improvised "spear rods" or objects etc. In the original TRO 3025, it was explicitly stated The Atlas can even choke slam a 50 ton Hunchback since the myomers and internal structure had insane power.

http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=519

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 24 November 2011 - 07:39 PM.

[barcode]

I generally hate, hate the way the 'Mechs with hands look, but they are an undeniable part of canon and as such cannot be entirely dismissed; especially in the IS-only era.

Don't worry, you (hopefully) still have the Marauder and Warhammer to look forward to.

[EDMW CSN]

I hope MWO integrates melee combat into this. Does not need to be done now could be later if they wanted to. In Crysis 2 you had the ability to punch, kick and the ability to throw people and stuff around. That is all I need....

[Datum]

Saurok, on 24 November 2011 - 05:03 AM, said:

The "Walking Tank" concept really seems to be strong on PC gaming side. Many BattleMechs
feature hands with fingers. Many of my favorite mechs have hands and look very humanoid.

Maybe it is because gamers have embraced classical 3050 Clan Omni designs such as Timber Wolf or
Mad Dog. While Phoenix Hawk and other humanoid designs are "wrong" since they are not been present
in PC games as much as "Walking Tank" models.

Once Clans show up, I want to be able to purchase Phoenix Hawk IIC from Diamond Sharks.
http://www.sarna.net...xhawk_iic_4.jpg

I also think that's because it's very easy to model a walking tank for a video game as opposed to making a humanoid walking mech. You don't have to model a balance or gait animation, as the arms are stuck forwards with the torso.
This becomes very apparent in MW2 mercs, as a TON of the IS mechs, being humanoid, tend to be extremely ugly to watch. It doesn't look right to see an upright walker with the arms fused forwards like it's got them in colossal casts.

[Saurok]

Datum, on 24 November 2011 - 11:40 PM, said:

I also think that's because it's very easy to model a walking tank for a video game as opposed to making a humanoid walking mech. You don't have to model a balance or gait animation, as the arms are stuck forwards with the torso.
This becomes very apparent in MW2 mercs, as a TON of the IS mechs, being humanoid, tend to be extremely ugly to watch. It doesn't look right to see an upright walker with the arms fused forwards like it's got them in colossal casts.

Indeed.

I really hope they animate humanoid mechs correctly this time. No more excuses of old tech.


And it is silly to think that having hands reduces your firepower. Mechs can mount their weapons under/over their arms like Thunderbolt
or reseen Battlemaster does. And having hands on Mechs just adds immersion. Since Battletech technology level allows advanced actuators and mechanical muscles why not have them if they are damn effective on battlefield.

[Arnold Carns]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 24 November 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

Actually I have, but I don't put much stock in the novels for anything but timeline, story and character development. Descriptions of maneuvers, weapon effects, and even the movement of mechs varies wildly from author to author. Going from CBT, the amount of movement penalties and the skill level required to execute even the basics (derp walking backward down a slope fall break both legs) without failing is pretty big so I try to keep the "what a mech is possible of" rooted in CBT.

So you saying that you compare bare Boardgame-Stats with the animations of a cartoon?