121 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Macro's are there and easily available, and there is no way to enforce players from not using it, and since there is nothing that can be done about it, "its acceptable".

Its like saying Terrorism is ok because you can't stop it.
Maybe thats an extreme stance, but thats pretty much what is going on.

It becomes a moral dilemma.
How far are you willing to go to win.

IMO its just people being lazy.

Edited by Mister D, 18 January 2015 - 08:31 AM.

[AEgg]

There's nothing you can do with a macro that you can't do without one.

So why are they a problem? Other people want to take the easy way out and put themselves at a minor disadvantage by always being tied to exactly the same pattern (rather than cancelling the charge, or slowing down firing speed, whatever), that's their problem.

And why are people upset about someone chainfiring AC2s? Groupfire is always better than chainfire anyway so you should be happy your enemies are chaining them.

[kapusta11]

Some people are just SO bad that they can't believe one can actually be good.

[beerandasmoke]

Bulletsponge0, on 18 January 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

you can do that exact same thing by having them all in one group and setting it to chain fire...no macro needed

Lol no you cant. I tried and you will not get anywhere near the same rate of fire. If you could why would B33f even bother using a macro? Because you cant get the same rate of fire thats why.

Dont get me wrong I really dont care about macros since they are readily available. I was just trying to show an example where they do improve ROF. If you need or want to use a macro then go for it. Russ already said its ok when smurfy had an issue about it when one of their members posted one for a gauss ppc macro.

Edited by beerandasmoke, 18 January 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

I'm using macros RIGHT NOW.

My mouse has a ton of extra buttons that I can program to do things. My keyboard also has extra buttons.

[MauttyKoray]

beerandasmoke, on 18 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Lol no you cant. I tried and you will not get anywhere near the same rate of fire. If you could why would B33f even bother using a macro? Because you cant get the same rate of fire thats why.

Dont get me wrong I really dont care about macros since they are readily available. I was just trying to show an example where they do improve ROF. If you need or want to use a macro then go for it. Russ already said its ok when smurfy had an issue about it when one of their members posted one for a gauss ppc macro.

You can do the exact same this beef was doing. 2 groups in chainfire and just alternate firing them, it works perfectly. Just don't hold the button down like an idiot, you have to push the button.

[Theodore42]

If you put all your guns on different weapons groups you can shoot them as fast as you want.

Aren't there any musicians out there that have played 32nd notes? Seriously, same thing.

2 weapon groups on mouse 1 and 2, numbers 1-4 on keyboard. Just like playing a piano or violin or guitar. Only easier.

[Brody319]

my mouse just has buttons on the side that I use to fire group 3 and 4 weapons. just allows me to not have to play my keyboard like a piano!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

They are an exploit?

A 3rd party program that circumvents the programing of the game? It removes Pilot skill and uses a program to sync your shots?

Just got out of 2 matches where a DW had 2 ER PPC's and 2 Guass macroed to a fire group. Of course he denied it but when you actually just watched him fire, it was in perfect unison. Every shot, perfect unison.

This is something that IMHO needs to be cracked down upon, the even funnier thing is the player claimed he had skill, when everyone including his teammates that were spectating knew what was really going on.

I'm aware of the macros and that PGI has stated they aren't against the ROE, they've been around since the uAC5 starting jamming, people figured out the timing to avoid jamming and viola, they've been here every since. The timing and how to set up the macros were clearly posted on the old beta forums multiple times, PGI was pretty clear back then that it was allowed and would continue to be allowed until they said otherwise. They have yet to say otherwise btw.

As to the gauss/erppc macro you swear you saw...uhm, you DO realize that firing those 2 different weapons with such different projectile speeds at the exact same time is only useful at short ranges right? I use the gauss/erppc DW sometimes myself, and I always fire the erppcs slightly before the gauss so the projectiles will hit at the same time or close enough to make little, if any, difference. At range, there's enough time after the gauss hit for the target to move and make the erppcs hit an entirely different location, or even miss altogether. You COULD set up a macro to make them fire X ms apart so the projectiles would impact at the exact same moment, but that requires you to ONLY fire at a target X m away every single time. I do hope you can see how silly that would be. Firing the gauss and erppcs at the exact same time doesn't take a macro either, it's rather easy to do if you actually use the weapons for a bit manually, I do it and have been doing it since they put in the silly charge up mechanic, took me about..oh, 4 or 5 tries to get the timing down with 2 groups. It's not like it requires superhuman speed or anything, charge up, hit both groups at once. Anyone who's done any PC FPS gaming should have that basic skill down pretty well, but I'm sure MMO and Facebook gamers find it mystifying.

As far as being able to recognize macros in use, that's easy, it's been done for decades with online PC games. Simple scan of the PC by the software at game start to search for any running, than random scans during gaming to look for ones turned on after game start. Basic and simple, doesn't require much in the way of dev time or eat resources when running. Problem is, as already pointed out, MOST of us would be SOL real quick because we use mice or controllers that use macros to mimic keyboard functions because our devices have more than the standard 2+scrollwheel, especially people using XBox/PS controllers or joysticks. What is PGI supposed to do, set up an acceptable set of control interfaces we can use and that's it? That would go over real well, don't you think?

Me, I don't care if someone has to use a macro to fire their AC2s or MGuns, they obviously don't have the skill required to manually do it, which means they probably rather suck. PGI can change how the jamming works with uACs so that it doesn't matter how exact your timing is, that's the way to fix that. As far as someone firing gauss and er/ppcs at the exact same time..seriously...if you need a macro to do that...I really REALLY hope you are on the enemy team, cause the gods know I love an easy kill.

[beerandasmoke]

MauttyKoray, on 18 January 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

You can do the exact same this beef was doing. 2 groups in chainfire and just alternate firing them, it works perfectly. Just don't hold the button down like an idiot, you have to push the button.

Ok then post a vid of you doing this. After you posted this I took my DW out that is setup exactly like B33fs. What happens is with two fire groups on chainfire you end up running into your cooldown when your clicking making a stuttering fire effect and not the smooth chaingun fire that he achieves with a macro set to 6 different groups. If you dont believe me then do it yourself. Either way im not going to get in a flamewar with you over it. Drop 2million on worthless lbx2s like I did and find out the hard way.

[mogs01gt]

Darian DelFord, on 18 January 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

They are an exploit?
A 3rd party program that circumvents the programing of the game? It removes Pilot skill and uses a program to sync your shots?Just got out of 2 matches where a DW had 2 ER PPC's and 2 Guass macroed to a fire group. Of course he denied it but when you actually just watched him fire, it was in perfect unison. Every shot, perfect unison.This is something that IMHO needs to be cracked down upon, the even funnier thing is the player claimed he had skill, when everyone including his teammates that were spectating knew what was really going on.

Why its allowed? Because PGI is a tad lazy. Macros are cheating. It's simple as that. If PGI were to hold a E-sport tournamet, do you think they would allow any third party program that gives you an advantage? HELL NO!!!

[Vxheous]

Bulletsponge0, on 18 January 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

you can do that exact same thing by having them all in one group and setting it to chain fire...no macro needed

No you cannot, due to the fact that chainfire in the game has a slight delay built in by PGI, while using a macro lets you set the delay time yourself, giving both a higher ROF, and a smoother chainfire

[Yokaiko]

beerandasmoke, on 18 January 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

It does a lot. You split your LBX into groups of one across your six weapon groups the macro will fire them at a much higher rate than a human could ever hope to achieve. If you dont believe it go look at B33fs charity stream vid on Youtube. Hes running a DW with a macro and the rate of fire is insane.

You don't need a macro to do that, just a bunch of groups, once everything is triggered you just have to hold it down.

Brody319, on 18 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

my mouse just has buttons on the side that I use to fire group 3 and 4 weapons. just allows me to not have to play my keyboard like a piano!

I have a 9 button mouse, its macro capable but there is no need.

[Ted Wayz]

Warhammer Online did a fairly good job of tracking macros. But not all macros were disallowed. If a macro set off a sequence of keystrokes without user interaction is was illegal. If the macro allowed varied keystrokes but made the user hit a key, even if it was the same one over and over, it was legal.

The main advantage of macros is to make sure your timing is right, they make you more efficient. But they can also get you into trouble if you choose to use it at the wrong time.

[MauttyKoray]

beerandasmoke, on 18 January 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Ok then post a vid of you doing this. After you posted this I took my DW out that is setup exactly like B33fs. What happens is with two fire groups on chainfire you end up running into your cooldown when your clicking making a stuttering fire effect and not the smooth chaingun fire that he achieves with a macro set to 6 different groups. If you dont believe me then do it yourself. Either way im not going to get in a flamewar with you over it. Drop 2million on worthless lbx2s like I did and find out the hard way.

Later, trying to get the stupid 30 match qualifications for the event and running out of time. (plus I still have to work...)

Vxheous Kerensky, on 18 January 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

No you cannot, due to the fact that chainfire in the game has a slight delay built in by PGI, while using a macro lets you set the delay time yourself, giving both a higher ROF, and a smoother chainfire

As I said, don't hold the stupid button, click it every time. Chainfire has an 'automatic' delay however manually pushing the button will skip this delay. Trust me I've used missiles and lasers this way and its the exact same thing.

[kapusta11]

beerandasmoke, on 18 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Lol no you cant. I tried and you will not get anywhere near the same rate of fire. If you could why would B33f even bother using a macro? Because you cant get the same rate of fire thats why.

Dont get me wrong I really dont care about macros since they are readily available. I was just trying to show an example where they do improve ROF. If you need or want to use a macro then go for it. Russ already said its ok when smurfy had an issue about it when one of their members posted one for a gauss ppc macro.

Yes you can, if you double tap, and some mouses have triple click button.

Edited by kapusta11, 18 January 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Burktross]

fyurian, on 18 January 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

that a pretty vague discription
dual gauss on one button
dual erppc on another
charge gauss release and push ppc button at the same time
Look!!! someone who uses two fingers to play

do the exact same thing for my protector
easy peasy lemon squeazy

[Sarlic]

Mister D, on 18 January 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Macro's are there and easily available, and there is no way to enforce players from not using it, and since there is nothing that can be done about it, "its acceptable".

Its like saying Terrorism is ok because you can't stop it.
Maybe thats an extreme stance, but thats pretty much what is going on.

It becomes a moral dilemma.
How far are you willing to go to win.

IMO its just people being lazy.

I laughed at your example. I agree.

In most tournament (including e-sports) it's now allowed that you can execute two commands with one press.

Edited by Sarlic, 18 January 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[Mcgral18]

beerandasmoke, on 18 January 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

It does a lot. You split your LBX into groups of one across your six weapon groups the macro will fire them at a much higher rate than a human could ever hope to achieve. If you dont believe it go look at B33fs charity stream vid on Youtube. Hes running a DW with a macro and the rate of fire is insane.

beerandasmoke, on 18 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Lol no you cant. I tried and you will not get anywhere near the same rate of fire. If you could why would B33f even bother using a macro? Because you cant get the same rate of fire thats why.

Dont get me wrong I really dont care about macros since they are readily available. I was just trying to show an example where they do improve ROF. If you need or want to use a macro then go for it. Russ already said its ok when smurfy had an issue about it when one of their members posted one for a gauss ppc macro.

Assign each LB2 to a unique weapon group, with all 6 assigned to a single one.

Tap each of the 5 keys in rapid succession, you'll get that stagger fire. Then alpha strike to get the continuous stagger fire, at the press of a single button. Not as reliable spread as a Macro, but stagger fire without a doubt.


Alpha Strike:


Stagger Fire:


Noticeable difference, you can spread the Stagger fire around.

MerryIguana, on 18 January 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

The mg macro would like to have a word with you.

I know it sounds cooler, but is it actually more effective?

[Mavairo]

123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456

I'm out of practice with my "row throughs" on my Naga, but there's 6 fire keys repeated...with my right thumb
Get Imba.



I can row through 1 through -= in under a second and a half, when I'm in practice. I'm out of practice though since MWO isn't as cooldown intensive as STO was. Which I played WITHOUT macros, and still out performed macro users regularly.

What should MWO ban my naga too since I have a distinct advantage over you keyboard fire key bound slugs?

Edited by Mavairo, 18 January 2015 - 10:52 AM.