70 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

DarkMetalBlade, on 18 January 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I've also managed to complete this challenge myself just recently. What might help is going a bit heavy on the meta-mechs side. For me, that was pretty much the only way this could be complete in any reasonable amount of time.

What kept me sane was, everytime I hit a bit of "bad team streak" I would stop, take a 20 min break and then come back in a different mech and weight class.

I won't lie, there were some moments where I was cursing all of hell's creation - but I had a few equally as good if not better win streaks and completed early today.

[C E Dwyer]

This is another your doing it all wrong thread..

[Lily from animove]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

I got 99 problems but this challenge ain't one.

then lets talk about the other 99, is one the FS9? because FS9 and Ravens (but much more the FS) are my top problems in MWO, I really should start recording my games again amd make hitreg vod, its so amazingly whaty oou currently can see out there. hopeone of the next sales includes ravens, I really wannapilot one now. But then I feel its a tiny bit like cheating to use a mech that is basically exploiting a badly working mechanic.

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

What kept me sane was, everytime I hit a bit of "bad team streak" I would stop, take a 20 min break and then come back in a different mech and weight class.

I won't lie, there were some moments where I was cursing all of hell's creation - but I had a few equally as good if not better win streaks and completed early today.

good music helps during gameplay. But after I finished I started using the mechs I haven't used for ages, just for the diversity, took out my 6 uac2 DW, and instantly had 6 kills in the first match xD . I really like that build, its so absolutely antimeta and unsuitable and still all the dakka.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

This should go without saying, but after observing a couple of matches, it clearly needs said.

Target your enemies, usually be hitting R (I find it so important I remapped it to a mouse button).
You cannot effectually fight your opponent if you do not know where to shoot. So many times I see an ally pummeling the destroyed torso of an enemy, or leg shotting the destroyed leg (NOTE: another pro-tip, damage transfer is only 40% of damage dealt per location). This is one of the easiest most avoidable mistakes in the game. I think it is one of the few subjects covered in the "tutorial". At one time PGI felt it so important they added an auto-target for anything you shot for a couple of seconds.

[Ursh]

I'm a terrible shot and make bad decisions. Why does it keep matching me up against players who can shoot?

[Ultimax]

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

then lets talk about the other 99, is one the FS9? because FS9 and Ravens

LOL, no.

It's generally solo pug queue team mates.


People who hide, who wait for the battle to take shape & are afraid of a few bullets or can't seem to stick together.

[InspectorG]

Eldagore, on 18 January 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Nothing in this challenge is any different then normal day to day play in pug land.

I disagree.

How many of the better/veterans are doing CW?
There has been an influx of new players to MWO since CW.

Add to the mix: free giveaway of a mech worth @$30

I have been grinding a new mech, and my kdr/wlr is @ 1.0.

What i have experienced since Friday has been far different that my usual pugs.

-more LRM boats(expected during event)
-Less communication
-Less than optimal builds when spectating
-During spectating, ill call stuff out, no response. usually in my Pug play people will respond.
-Many players fighting in the open and overheating
-More Leroy Jones/rabbit runs
-Matches seem to be won by the team that is less bad.
-Matches with 8 of 12 teammates scoring less than 200 damage and no kills.(about 1/3 of the matches i fought)

This is not normal pugging in my experience.

[CocoaJin]

Ursh, on 18 January 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

I'm a terrible shot and make bad decisions. Why does it keep matching me up against players who can shoot?

Lol, yeah...with all the self described elites complaining of bad players, you'd think you'd have plenty of comparably deficient players to run around shooting into sky and ground with

Just remember:

Edited by CocoaJin, 18 January 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Deathlike]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 January 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

This should go without saying, but after observing a couple of matches, it clearly needs said.

Target your enemies, usually be hitting R (I find it so important I remapped it to a mouse button).
You cannot effectually fight your opponent if you do not know where to shoot. So many times I see an ally pummeling the destroyed torso of an enemy, or leg shotting the destroyed leg (NOTE: another pro-tip, damage transfer is only 40% of damage dealt per location). This is one of the easiest most avoidable mistakes in the game. I think it is one of the few subjects covered in the "tutorial". At one time PGI felt it so important they added an auto-target for anything you shot for a couple of seconds.

There's a "tutorial"? Is it the one where you drive your mech into nowhere specific?

Tutorials are Lostech here.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 January 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

This should go without saying, but after observing a couple of matches, it clearly needs said.

Target your enemies, usually be hitting R (I find it so important I remapped it to a mouse button).
You cannot effectually fight your opponent if you do not know where to shoot. So many times I see an ally pummeling the destroyed torso of an enemy, or leg shotting the destroyed leg (NOTE: another pro-tip, damage transfer is only 40% of damage dealt per location). This is one of the easiest most avoidable mistakes in the game. I think it is one of the few subjects covered in the "tutorial". At one time PGI felt it so important they added an auto-target for anything you shot for a couple of seconds.

Honestly, Agent, while all good points, you know the number one thing people need to do?

Just play to win the stupid game. Don't go looking for kills and assists. Coordinate, play to win. Since all the kills and assists mean nothing if you LOSE.

If you just play to win, the rest will come. Not every match, but a heck of a lot faster than if you go out there trying for your kills and assists.

Surviving is not needed. Do what you need to help your team WIN.

Sadly, that concept eludes a goodly number of people playing, even without tournaments.

[Inveramsay]

I ran much of the challenge in an LRM battlemaster (2xLRM15+A, 2xLPL) and it worked well but much of what you say holds true. People would rush in and die while trying to score an easy kill and then we'd lose and there was nothing you could do about it. I on the other hand got lots of easy kills from people being stupid and rushing out into the open to shoot a damaged mech.

Some teams are bound to lose no matter how much carrying you do, I had one 5kills 1k+ damage in a firestarter but we still got stomped that match. Other times carrying the team and providing a focal point to rally around works (obviously better in a big assault spitting out LRMs like there is no tomorrow) and the match can turn. My last match we were 0-5, then 1-5, 1-6 before rallying. We turned the match and won in the end 12-7 but only because we stuck together and finished off the damaged mechs one by one who at this point had started spreading badly to secure easy kills for a point.

Having a rubbish team is more annoying on challenge weekends. I don't mind losing if we have a good match and get wiped out in the end because the enemy team were better but it gets annoying when the match maker seems to want five kills to carry the team to victory. Obviously I was that annoying guy who died right at the start a few times like when catching a double AC20 salvo to the side torso in a FS9 or getting overrun by three lights while in a mech without much close quarters protection.

The kill requirement isn't a good one, it promotes stupid game play. Not quite on the scale that the victor challenge did but still. Use a high match score instead if you must use some metric to make the games count.

Edited by Inveramsay, 18 January 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Honestly, Agent, while all good points, you know the number one thing people need to do?

Just play to win the stupid game. Don't go looking for kills and assists. Coordinate, play to win. Since all the kills and assists mean nothing if you LOSE.

If you just play to win, the rest will come. Not every match, but a heck of a lot faster than if you go out there trying for your kills and assists.

Surviving is not needed. Do what you need to help your team WIN.

Sadly, that concept eludes a goodly number of people playing, even without tournaments.

Well, it does't really help the players that normally DON'T get a kill on average. The focus to get the kill tends to supersede that notion.

Generally, doing what you normally do is sufficient, but inevitably if the requirement is just to win, then people wouldn't be doing stranger things at times... and that changes the landscape just as well..

Edited by Deathlike, 18 January 2015 - 03:10 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 18 January 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Well, it does't really help the players that normally DON'T get a kill on average. The focus to get the kill tends to supersede that notion.

Generally, doing what you normally do is sufficient, but inevitably if the requirement is just to win, then people wouldn't be doing stranger things at times... and that changes the landscape just as well..

that is true, but what I am saying is this: By trying to force the kills/assists, players are sabotaging their chances of winning, and thus, defeating the advantage of getting those kills.

Those same players, and pretty much ALL players, in general, would get their qualifying matches faster, by simply playing to win the game, period. The requirement isn't just to win, but usually if you win, you have a much better chance of having fulfilled the other 2 criteria.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

that is true, but what I am saying is this: By trying to force the kills/assists, players are sabotaging their chances of winning, and thus, defeating the advantage of getting those kills.

Sure.

Quote

Those same players, and pretty much ALL players, in general, would get their qualifying matches faster, by simply playing to win the game, period. The requirement isn't just to win, but usually if you win, you have a much better chance of having fulfilled the other 2 criteria.

You're not wrong, but as I said... if you're not adept at getting a kill given in any given game (within reasons, barring roflstomps), then people tend to "press" to get that to occur.

I would say that many (average) people's K-D ratios above 1 tend to have MANY 0 kill games, despite winning a fair portion of them. I might get the occasional multi-kill game, but that's offset by having so many deaths (good and bad) in various situations.

Having the kill (in the process of winning) is not easy for some people than others.

Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

by simply playing to win the game

[Mudhutwarrior]

CocoaJin, on 18 January 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Lol, yeah...with all the self described elites complaining of bad players, you'd think you'd have plenty of comparably deficient players to run around shooting into sky and ground with

I have near 19k matches, a 1.04 kd. May not be that good but decent for a pug.
Saturday had 32 losses in a row, Tonight 21 so far.
I see nothing but top level players each match coordinating at a level I rarely see in pugs.

Watch lances move and coordinate fire from both sides of the map with speed and efficiently i could never get with a keyboard and the usual herding cats pug match.

Either my ELO is so high I am supposed to carry my entire team against pros or somebody is farming hard.

I cannot begin to imagine how any new or recent player stands a chance out there this weekend. Then they come here to have ego maniacs tell them to get better.

Yep we will retain new players all day like this.

[Lily from animove]

Mudhutwarrior, on 18 January 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

I have near 19k matches, a 1.04 kd. May not be that good but decent for a pug.
Saturday had 32 losses in a row, Tonight 21 so far.
I see nothing but top level players each match coordinating at a level I rarely see in pugs.

Watch lances move and coordinate fire from both sides of the map with speed and efficiently I could never get with a keyboard and the usual herding cats pug match.

Either my ELO is so high I am supposed to carry my entire team against pros or somebody is farming hard.

I cannot begin to imagine how any new or recent player stands a chance out there this weekend. Then they come here to have ego maniacs tell them to get better.

Yep we will retain new players all day like this.

The entire thing if you are new to a game IS to lern how it works and to GET BETTER: I needed like 300 matches before I was a decent pilot and I soaked a lod of informations about the game mechanics from the wiki and the Forum. Because this information is ammunition. And even if you don't have much time, or especially if you don't have maybe spending two evenings reading about MWO saves you from endless mistaks making you waste your time by getting instagibbed.

32 losses in a row? well weird, and tbh even if you see those high elo players, the randomness should put them into your team as well. and yes, some better players know how to "farm" because they know what is vital without losing the sight to the entire picture. like WINNING is needed, and the OP from me was to explain people that getting the kill is secondary. Because I normally PUG only and the tournament just increased peoples behavior to go for that weird kill condition by forgetting about the win condition.

And this is kinda the difference between a good and a not so good palyer: his ability to adopt a situation. many people suddenly brought their lrm's for whatever reason. But it's a challange, it has a goal and conditions, and so achiving this is what you go about. this again begins in the mechlab, those many scores challange (2000?), just made you put a tag in every mech, because easy points for free. I had a match granting me 80+ scores just because of tagging and assisting and scouting.

[Fate 6]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

Call it bad form on my part, but it doesnt help that so many people are absolutely terrible at this game. Like unreasonably terrible. Getting the kill is easy, getting the assist is even easier. Winning while Pugging is agony. People play like cowards.

.

[LowSubmarino]

And that's where you are wrong.

I get abysmal teams every other game. It is actually the team that is - as a whole - responsible for either winning or losing.

If you get solid results all the time and entire lances in your team dont get half as much dmg or kills as you get by yourself, then you cannot simply say 'you play with ppl of your skill level.'

That doesnt apply to the reality I experience in mwo.

Every second game I play there are several ppl with less than 50 dmg.

No decent player gets scores like that. Only very rarely when they totally misjudge a situation or get surprised/headshotted, will they die instantly and laugh about it.

The vast majority of games they deliver. And they do not simply die that easily. And they will stay in the group and cover each other.

I get brand new or incredibly bad players all the time. How can you say i always play with ppl that are about as good/experienced as me when I get 600 + dmg, 1-3 kills, 4 + assists and they die without mananig to land two solid alphas in an entire game, resulting in less than 50 dmg, no kills, no assists. Dying somewhere alone, failing to stay in group.

I have that every second game.

No. I most definitely do not play with ppl that play as good/as bad as me all the time. Not by a long shot.

That said I do play with good players every other game as well.

But there's no way you can say 'you will mostly get ppl that play as good as you.'

Absolutely not hehe.

Edited by oneda, 18 January 2015 - 05:01 PM.

[Theodore42]

This challenge has so far been fun and easy. I was sick Friday and Sat so I'm just today jumping in. Maybe people are playing differently now toward the end.

I've even found that at the end of matches players will fall back and let me (or others) take the kill if needed. Nice!

The only advice I would give about improving pug play is to tell your team they're doing something stupid as soon as you see them doing it. Like if they all run into the open, type "whoa, don't go there unless you want to eat a bunch of LRM vomit." And they will leave. Stop bad tactics as soon as they manifest. Don't wait for the fail and then say "ur dum!"

[Zolaz]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

that is true, but what I am saying is this: By trying to force the kills/assists, players are sabotaging their chances of winning, and thus, defeating the advantage of getting those kills.

Those same players, and pretty much ALL players, in general, would get their qualifying matches faster, by simply playing to win the game, period. The requirement isn't just to win, but usually if you win, you have a much better chance of having fulfilled the other 2 criteria.

*laughs* Bish, you do know that these guys have no clue what it takes to win? What they think will do it, probably wont. If they were doing these things they should be winning instead of having problems. If you want to be successful at something just ask an already successful person. Reinventing the wheel every time just wastes time you could be grinding out c-bills.

As a public service announcement ... If you want to learn how to be a winner, BWC has plenty of billets open. Just send me a private message and I'll help you out. You have already accomplished the first part, recognizing that there is a problem and wanting to do something about it. Now all you have to do is get some tools into your toolbox. Everything looks like a nail if all you have is a hammer in your toolbox.

Good luck to everyone still working on the Challenge!!