12 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

Russ I guess is looking for mech suggestions. IS heavy, with ECM, prolly to counter clan ECM in CW or something.

I got to thinking, if they need a heavy ECM mech, it will need to be really versatile and likely on the top half of the heavy class in tonnage to be competitive. This mech immediatly came to mind:

Avatar- 70 ton IS Omnimech, 3056 (was going to link to Sarna but unknown error keeps redirecting to a no text page)

But, it is a mech from a couple years in the future. and an Omni. Well, you know what? At this point in the game I really don't feel MOST of the mechs in the timeline should be restricted out of the game. Clearly, the weapons and hardpoints are what matters in the timeline aspect for balance etc. if a mech is from 3070, but doesn't have some new fangled equip as it's defining feature, well who cares what year it is from then, stick our current weapons on it and go with it.

As for the Omni part. Yes, that is likely a bigger concern. but then I thought:

Give IS an omni.
Give clans some non-omni.

Results-

IS gets an Avatar, 70 tons with half it's tonnage as pod space with a hardpoint mix/count to be accomodating to pretty much anything, and ECM to boot.

Clans get Supernova and Kodiak etc that a whole slug of players have on their short list.

To me, while it looks scary for balance, IMO it really wont turn out that way. The fixed engine rules for omnis would keep Avatar speed in the mid 70's after tweak, the rest of that mech is down to providing good hitbox to spread dmg to cover the XL liability, and just normal weapon balance. Clan side, there are certainly numerous ideas on the forums for keeping a Kodiak from turning into a monster with non-fixed engines(because it is not an omni)

1.) How does the player base feel about restricting mechs based on timeline in the current game, given that numerous mechs don't even have unique tech associated with them?

2.) How does the player base feel about an IS omni?

3.) How does the player base feel about clan standard mechs?


Feel free to talk about how to balance clan standard mechs, and also IS omni mechs if that is a concern.

Please DO NOT TALK ABOUT ECM BALANCE HERE. The other thread is 100% derailed off topic because of that. Please make a new thread to discuss ECM balance. This is SIMPLY a thread to talk about above topics for PGI to reference when considering clan standard/IS omni mechs and timeline restrictions.

[Mcgral18]

Avatar has 3 variants with timeline appropriate stuff. The other two (from 3059) have C3s, MRMs and Light Gauss. The E (3062) which has the Jesus Box, in the RT, has a C3 and a UAC10.


XL280 means it has (with hardwired case removed) 33.5 tons of pod space, no hardwired DHS.

Hardpoints:
Prime
Head: x
CT: 2E, hardwired MLs
RT: 1M 1B
LT: 1M1B
LA: 2E
RA: 1B

A
Head: x
CT: 2E, hardwired MLs
RT: 1M
LT: 1M
LA: 1E
RA: 1B


B
Head: x
CT: 2E, hardwired MLs
RT: 1M
LT: 1M
LA: 1M
RA: 1M


Not great, can have some Dakka with 4 MLs.



I feel hardpoint inflation should be considered for certain Omni's, or they should get some hefty enough quirks (like the Huggin, only 2 M hardpoints, but they act as 4...perhaps to a lesser degree though)


IS Omni's aren't great. Some have the same issues as Clam ones, being unoptimised, underengined and restricted to TT construction rules, while Battlemechs generally ignore those rules. At least with engines.


Clan Battlemechs could potentially be the most OP thing in the game...all depends on their implementation. Custom engine sizes with decent hardpoints? Yeah, those will be nasty. Add Endo, add efficient engine size, have a optimised robot with Clam tech. Also depends on the hitboxes....it could be a perfect storm, or just a robot to rival the Trinity.


As for restricted variants....I really want some Nova-U pods. 8 MGs and a Jesus Box....that could really help this chassis. It's from 3080...with lots of experimental tech.
It's an argument that could help quite a few mechs. Adder has a variant with 2E in each ST, but those a micro pulse lasers. Adding just the pods suddenly increases it's potential power from 4E to 6E, without touching on the hardwired stuff.

[JaxRiot]

As far as which mech is can equip an ECM either canonically or through Lore or through some other rule version has all become irrelevant now.

All of the cannon and lore and rule sets have already been violated as far as ECM goes. Its already on Mechs in the game that were not supposed to have it anyway. So whats a few years either way going to matter now?

At this point, just throw a bunch of Mech names in a hat and draw one. It will be just as Canon as anything going on currently.

Notice how I didnt argue anything about balance? Im a good boy, arent I?

As far s the Omni stuff, I dont really have anything to add. Im not loyal to either faction and mostly just play what I want.

But I will say that those Omni Mechs have thier own draw backs. A lot of those Omni Parts have fixed items that cant be taken out which means less customization even though you get the hard points you want, you wont have the space. Plus no Quirks and no ability to swap out engines for more or less speed.

But I'll leave that up to the faction people to discuss

Edited by JaxRiot, 27 March 2015 - 03:50 PM.

[mark v92]

avatar is cool. but why hassle with IS omni?
just make it a non omni as all the IS mechs we have
IS standart mechs are more omni in MWO than omni mechs anyway

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Just drop in a hero mech with ECM, just like the Pirba. Maybe the first Hero-Champion +30/30 and allow mixed Tech. What do they say 3 wrong turns makes a right.

[Chuck Jager]

Even though I think we need to really let go of the strict adherence to the lore when dealing with ECM and other game play balance issues, I am a little confused as to why sub-optimal weights and hardpoints of the previous ECM mechs was more than ignored a little bit with the Hellbringer. This really seemed to have a very good self balancing mechanism. ECM for team/self usually meant less effective damage output than others of weight class (except maybe the DDC). So is the question really will IS get as versatile a mech with fair to good survivability and great peek-a-shoot hardpoints that also gets ECM.

[Zordicron]

mark v92, on 27 March 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

avatar is cool. but why hassle with IS omni?
just make it a non omni as all the IS mechs we have
IS standart mechs are more omni in MWO than omni mechs anyway

This is actually true in it's own way. I am not sure if PGI wants to discard IS omni tech compltely from the future of the game though at this point.

[Felbombling]

I want Russ to get off Twitter and come in here, the official forums for this game, and ask us these questions himself.

[Phashe]

ha. If I was Russ or any of them, I would not spend much time on this forum. Although I enjoy our little forum, it is not exactly a balanced sample of the playing community. (At least I like to think that the rest of civilization does not cry this much! LOL)

[Xiomburg]

Black Knight

[Sarevos]

TB Xiomburg, on 28 March 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Black Knight

Jesus christ that would be all over the place lol! 1-2 ERPPCs with heat reduction perks? and stealthy to boot? but I dont think there is a non dark age ecm variant except the one with the sick plasma launchers

[JaxRiot]

Phashe, on 28 March 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

ha. If I was Russ or any of them, I would not spend much time on this forum. Although I enjoy our little forum, it is not exactly a balanced sample of the playing community. (At least I like to think that the rest of civilization does not cry this much! LOL)

No offense but,.. twitter is?

Twitter is maybe a fraction of the actual player base. Hardly a yardstick to measure community interests by.

[Xiomburg]

You can always go with another JagerMech:

•JM7-F Another 70 ton variant, the F variation was introduced in 3062. It replaces the JM7-D's Ultra Autocannon and ER Large Lasers with a pair of Rotary Autocannon/5s with four tons of ammunition. Aiming assistance is provided by a Targeting Computer, and defense is improved by the addition of a Guardian ECM Suite. One double heat sink is removed. BV (1.0) = 1,562, BV (2.0) = 1,774[14]