17 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

The way I see it, currently mechs are paying just a little too much in terms of tonnage and space for ballistic weapons + ammo, except MGs. The situation was just not apparent before the Clan "invasion" and the Quirkening. With the arrival of the Clans, we received mechs that have ballistic slots but are simply unable to take advantage of them due to weight and space constraints, and consequently majority of them are using the laser vomit build. Also, the Quirkening had increased armor and/or internals in many mechs too offset their..."shortcomings" (from Locust to Atlas), requiring more ammo to put down the same mech.

Now I know the overall difference between now and then is not too much, but it is still there. What are your opinions on the issue? Should PGI, for example, increase the AC/Gauss ammo count from 150% canon value to 200%? Jaw away.

[Ryan220]

I like the idea, but I never live long enough to use all of my ammo.

[Rehl]

Personally, I think it's fine. If you want big pinpoint damage, you gotta make sacrifices. And I do use a few AC/20 and Gauss carriers with the Yen Lo being among my preferred rides.

[El Bandito]

Rehl, on 20 January 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

Personally, I think it's fine. If you want big pinpoint damage, you gotta make sacrifices. And I do use a few AC/20 and Gauss carriers with the Yen Lo being among my preferred rides.

I am more concerned about Clan ballistic builds. IS ACs too need stream-fire (two-projectile), but that is for another topic.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 January 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[Fate 6]

No, we have plenty of ammo as is. It makes you actually have to sacrifice something to take those autocannons. For IS, definitely not. For Clans I could see maybe adding some ammo to ACs because of the way Clan ACs work.

The one change I would propose is add 1 round to the AC20 half-ton. One ton of AC20 ammo is 7 rounds (140 damage) where all other ballistics get 150 damage/ton. The AC20 half-ton is 3 rounds when it should be 4, making up for the already lost 10 damage, and putting it at 220 damage total, where every other weapon with a ton and a half of ammo is at 225 damage.

[Gamuray]

The fact that ammo is a limiting factor for ballistic weapons is a good thing. It's supposed to be the disadvantage of ballistic weapons... They may be hard hitting and quicker to reload, but they require more space and have limited shots. Lrm's: indirect fire, long range, lock on, somewhat light (for the damage), but slow, spread, no short range, and ammo. Srm's: High damage, short reload (streaks however have a long reload), plenty of ammo per ton, but short range, slower speed, ammo dependent. Energy: Unlimited shots, but high heat and generally have a duration, and a semi-long reload time.

So... If you feel ammo is limiting ballistic weapons... Good! It is supposed to!

Edited by Gamuray, 20 January 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[Obelus]

I don't see a need for change with ammo.

[Cerlin]

Nope they feel perfect, especially in CW. I use almost all ballistic mechs in CW and I think its fair.

Normal Queue and CW builds should be different. Work on your builds.

[Joseph Mallan]

my ammo has run out... 5 times in all my playing. I think ammo is in a good quantity right now.

[Lily from animove]

And where is the downside again for 100% cool running weapons? Ammo was already increased, and so it is enough, if not even too much already.

doublign ammo would just emna people use more weapons and less tonnage for ammo.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 January 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[MauttyKoray]

El Bandito, on 20 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

The way I see it, currently mechs are paying just a little too much in terms of tonnage and space for ballistic weapons + ammo, except MGs. The situation was just not apparent before the Clan "invasion" and the Quirkening. With the arrival of the Clans, we received mechs that have ballistic slots but are simply unable to take advantage of them due to weight and space constraints, and consequently majority of them are using the laser vomit build. Also, the Quirkening had increased armor and/or internals in many mechs too offset their..."shortcomings" (from Locust to Atlas), requiring more ammo to put down the same mech.

Now I know the overall difference between now and then is not too much, but it is still there. What are your opinions on the issue? Should PGI, for example, increase the AC/Gauss ammo count from 150% canon value to 200%? Jaw away.

No, no no no no , NOT MORE AMMO. More ammo = more armor = whats the point anymore.

We need to backpedal and reverse this. Lower Heatcap/Fix the Heat Dissipation -> Lowered Armor (fewer Lasers, Missiles and to a lesser extent ballistics will even the TTK back out, balance armor from there) -> Lowered Ammo (returning to stock making shots more precious, but allowed them to be more powerful per salvo. and more expensive per ton while still staying balanced between the other weapons and armor.)

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 January 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[BourbonFaucet]

The only ammunition I consistently run out of is LRM ammo, and that's because the game encourages you to sling LRM's at every indirect target available. I know you're big on playing LRM's Bandito, so to some extent I'm a bit surprised that you didn't vouch for all ammunition to be increased to 200%, as it'd mean LRM 'mechs being a little less prone to ammo explosions and able to devote weight to other things.

El Bandito, on 20 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Also, the Quirkening had increased armor and/or internals in many mechs too offset their..."shortcomings" (from Locust to Atlas), requiring more ammo to put down the same mech.

I haven't noticed, TTK feels about the same. The only 'mech component in the game that seems to take forever to blow up is the hunchback's hunch, and that machine really needed that advantage! In addition, most times when I look up builds, they still suggest the same amount of ammo, in particular AC/20 and gauss. We still have that "exact science" of ammo counts for those weapons. Bumping ammo to 200% means that for every 2 tons of ammo in a build, you don't need the third ton to achieve the previous ammo count you had before. So for example, if my LRM boat has 6 tons of LRM's, after 200% ammo I could take away 2 tons and spend it on something else, keeping my same ammo count, or elect to keep the tons and get more ammo. I know if I was using my founderspult and got this update, I'd remove some ammo and get more heat sinks or jets!

One last thing to consider about the ammo count though, are the quirks that increase firing rate. The Grid Iron will certainly chew through a ton of gauss ammo faster than a Jagermech without those gauss quirks.

[Voivode]

Ammo explosions need to occur more frequently. In fact, give the Flamer a large chance to cause ammo explosions when it deals any damage at all to an ammo component. It makes sense. Fire + ammunition = BOOM!

[LordKnightFandragon]

No, we dont need more ammo for cannon weapons. Cannons have ammo dependency, lasers have heat issues, tht is the way it should always be. So in CW you cant bring enough ammo for your gauss to last the whole game, kinda a trade off for a punchy weapon.

Cannon weapons are already increased as it is. 10-15 8-11, 5-7,

[MauttyKoray]

Voivode, on 20 January 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Ammo explosions need to occur more frequently. In fact, give the Flamer a large chance to cause ammo explosions when it deals any damage at all to an ammo component. It makes sense. Fire + ammunition = BOOM!

This...Ammo explosion is supposed to occur when you repeatedly overheat your damn mech anyway, might as well give it to the flamer and give it a chance (low chance) to cause ammo to explode in a body section if the armor has been stripped and you're shooting the internals with it.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 January 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[Matthew Ace]

Heres my idea, but mainly targeted towards mechs lacking tonnage to carry ballistics or stock mechs.

http://mwomercs.com/...n/#entry4118361

Requires an open mind to embrace though.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 21 January 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Maybe mechs could use some additional ammo...maybe.

I only say this because of how drawn out CW can get. If this game was just PUGing, then I would say it was fine where it is at.

[kapusta11]

One of the reasons why stock mechs suck, yes. I woudn't mind ammo increase.