164 replies to this topic

[DaynarFaol]

oldradagast, on 23 January 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

It doesn't take a macro to repeat the truth when it is glaring obvious.

You want to know why I'm salty about it? Because I am tired of being shouted down, spat upon, and trolled by idiots who will do anything - including wrecking the game itself - so long as CW stays exactly as *they* want it, with zero consideration of any other options for anyone else. A hardline philosophy of "play CW my way or get wrecked, noob!" is not working, and it's putting my fun in danger since PGI is spending limited resources on CW without getting to the root of the problem - 1-sides, pointless games.

For the people who still refuse to "get" the simple concept of the optional matchmaker. How does adding a "normal" difficulty mode to a game scenario that only has a "hard" difficulty mode ruin your fun? You can still play "hard" mode all day; the only change is that other people now have the option to play the way THEY want to. Is that a problem for you?

Of course, it would reduce the PUG rolls - *gasp!* - and then there are the folks who claim "CW doesn't have enough players to split them into 2 difficulty modes." Except that's just plain wrong. The people who would be playing in "normal" mode with the optional matchmaker turned on are NOT PLAYING CW right now. That's the whole point - you're not "splitting" anything because all of those players already left.

Unreal how people just don't get it...

I for one have never said "Play my way in CW or get wreck."

What I have seen when dropping in a group with PUG fills is the PUG ignoring the tactical plan.

If a PUG drops with a formed group, say 11 with one PUG, then that PUG should out of both decency and teamwork conform to the tactical plan.

I have seen it numerous times when a PUG will go an open up the Alpha gate on Boreal, when told repeatedly NOT to. Even when we have had the time and fully explain, in text; to them the tactical plan.

And the reason I get is; "Because I wanted to." Or "Well my team opens up both gates."

If a player fails to act in accord with the outlined tactical plan then that player either needs to learn or not drop in a tactically heavy mode.

I honestly could care less about a players skill level, or mechs owned. I have taken guys into CW in one owned mech and 3 trial mechs and over the night we own more then we lost and that person was a net asset to the team.

The major issue, for me; with players coming into a match is not listening. If someone volunteers to lead the drop, or you have at least a lance of formed players and they start calling the tactical play. Then people should follow it.

Its like in the standard game when you drop and agree to fight in a location and some dude runs off and Leroy's into the enemy.

Now you are down a mech.

It comes down to mindset.

Yes there are plenty of jerks since the internet allows people to be morons without any real social consequences.

But if people go into a drop willing to work together, communicate, and follow directions then you win.

Have had many fights with, as and against pugs in CW.

The best ones have always been when people work together.

CW is more a team game then anything else in MWO.

If a player believes that they are the UBER ELITEY SUPER GAMER GOD of MWO and that they don't have to listen to anyone because they always know best then they will lose.

CW is NOT the PUG Arena. Individual performance means jack really if you can not get to or succeed at the team objective.

And a lot of players, both PUG and Team; fail to see that.

They focus so much on their personal match score, or kills, or damage done. Or their KDR is all important to them.

To be blunt; why should I care, personally, if you are top on kills, score and damage if we fail the objective?

I think they should remove those graphics from CW.

The only answer should be did you or did you not get your objective.

If you are going to treat CW as the PUG game then you are going to get rolled. If you come in and are willing to work with people then you will have fun.

But people are going to have to check the ego at the door. And learn that for CW the PUG Arena Murderball is not going to work. So just rushing in again and again will have you burning through 4 mechs and being a net lost in firepower for your team.

[White Bear 84]

Just had one of the best rounds ever. Very much not dead. x

[Mangonel TwoSix]

Everyone wants CW to be a success. From the solo queue guys that just want to play a round or two at a time, to the hard core 12 mans that want to play CW for 5 hours strait.

If facing 12 mans is driving off pick up players, maybe the matchmaker should be changed to something other than first come first served. As a 12 man player I would not mind having to wait a few extra minutes for a matchmaker to find a 12 man "premade" for me to face.

Have the matchmaker do something like this. My 12 man joins the queue and would be next up to play on the planet we are queued for. A opposing 6 man group rounded out by 6 pick up players joins the queue to face us. Matchmaker puts my premade on hold (for up to X number of minutes [5 mins?]) If another small group plus pickups joins the queue on my side, they go in front of my 12 man premade to face the other group, while the matchmaker looks for a 12 man for my group to face.

To prevent shennanigans you would have to put is some kind of hard counter so your 12 can't be skipped multiple times. If you don't Factions will have some players queue, cancel, and re-queue to slow/stall attacks.

But doing something like that may make it more likely for a pick up group to face a pick up group. This will make it easier on the PuG players while not forcing the 12 mans to wait for an hour to get a game.

I'm sure there are some guys out there who get off on it, but most 12 man players do not enjoy the stomps. I get excited when I see -MS-, AW, ACES, TMC, ect on the other team because I know it is not going to be another sub 2 minute walk in the park. I want more of that.

[DaynarFaol]

Or they can get the VOIP intergrated.

[Joseph Mallan]

oldradagast, on 23 January 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

It doesn't take a macro to repeat the truth when it is glaring obvious.

You want to know why I'm salty about it? Because I am tired of being shouted down, spat upon, and trolled by brats who will do anything - including wrecking the game itself - so long as CW stays exactly as *they* want it, with zero consideration of any other options for anyone else. A hardline philosophy of "play CW my way or get wrecked, noob!" is not working, and it's putting my fun in danger since PGI is spending limited resources on CW without getting to the root of the problem - 1-sided, fun-free games.

Ok now you know how we feel about your argument/opinion. You want to split the CW Que "as an option" Do you know the number of players playing? Will it be Sync drop proof? Will PUGs be happy cause they WILL still be stomped. And likely just as often. If teh PUG Que is any indication of how well balanced the MW:O MM works there.

Quote

For the people who still refuse to "get" the simple concept of the optional matchmaker. How does adding a "normal" difficulty mode to a game scenario that only has a "hard" difficulty mode ruin your fun? You can still play "hard" mode all day; the only change is that other people now have the option to play the way THEY want to. Is that a problem?

Normal mode IS the PUG Que though.

Quote

Of course, it would reduce the frequency of PUG rolls - *gasp!* - and then there are the folks who claim "CW doesn't have enough players to split them into 2 difficulty modes." Except that's just plain wrong. The people who would be playing in "normal" mode with the optional matchmaker turned on are NOT PLAYING CW right now. That's the whole point - you're not "splitting" anything because all of those players already left... and that's a huge chunk of the player base that is gone and is not coming back until something more substantial is offered than new maps on which to get rolled.

If my last week in the PUG Que is an indication of how fair and balanced it is.

COMMANDO COM-1D
Matches:32
Wins:11 (The wins actually increased when I teamed up with a few Lawman for a few drops last night in teh non CW group Que)
Losses:19 (11+19=32?) 2 loses for every win!
ERA:0.58
Kills:0
Deaths:27
KDr:0.00
Damage:1,023
EXP:11,740

This is the fair and balanced PUG Que! Losing twice as much as winning. Not a single kill and dying 84% of the time! This is what will STILL happen in CW if its made a Optional PUG "Friendly" environment. I don't Light Mech so this is almost the "New User" experience A PUG Optional CW will still yield.

Should Light Mech Pilots get their own Optional PUG Que, so we/they don't have to face heavy weapons?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 January 2015 - 06:25 AM.

[Mystere]

Roknari, on 23 January 2015 - 05:11 AM, said:

If facing 12 mans is driving off pick up players, maybe the matchmaker should be changed to something other than first come first served. As a 12 man player I would not mind having to wait a few extra minutes for a matchmaker to find a 12 man "premade" for me to face.

Have the matchmaker do something like this. My 12 man joins the queue and would be next up to play on the planet we are queued for. A opposing 6 man group rounded out by 6 pick up players joins the queue to face us. Matchmaker puts my premade on hold (for up to X number of minutes [5 mins?]) If another small group plus pickups joins the queue on my side, they go in front of my 12 man premade to face the other group, while the matchmaker looks for a 12 man for my group to face.

Based on Russ' description, 12-man teams find matches faster than teams that need to be built using smaller groups and solos. So it is working in reverse of what you are describing. But, one of the net effects is still the same: The probability that a 12-man will face another 12-man is higher when 12-man teams are feeding both sides.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 23 January 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Based on Russ' description, 12-man teams find matches faster than teams that need to be built using smaller groups and solos. So it is working in reverse of what you are describing. But, one of the net effects is still the same: The probability that a 12-man will face another 12-man is higher when 12-man teams are feeding both sides.

And this would be balanced better if teams did not have to be locked into a single planet choice. Some flexibility here could help balance out teams size issues. Or it could make it worse.

[Tastian]

PUGs outnumber 12-mans 4 to 1.
12-mans stomp PUGs, insult them, tell the to join a group or quit.
PUGs ask for solo queue in CW but are denied.
PUGs don't play CW.
CW is a ghost town.

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 23 January 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

For the people who still refuse to "get" the simple concept of the optional matchmaker. How does adding a "normal" difficulty mode to a game scenario that only has a "hard" difficulty mode ruin your fun? You can still play "hard" mode all day; the only change is that other people now have the option to play the way THEY want to. Is that a problem?

You keep on insisting that solo-players avoiding it is the main reason the CW population is low. But what if it is not? What if boredom/lack of variety is actually the main reason? For crying out loud, it only has 2 maps and 1 game mode. That can't possibly be a reason, right?

And what some people have been telling you is that the solo-player issue is better solved by adding more -- and better -- maps and game modes. It also solves the boredom/lack of variety problem.

On the other hand, adding an "optional" MM does nothing except dilute the player base further. Solos will still be stomped -- and sometimes stomped really hard -- by other solos and smaller groups and thus will run back to the forums to complain. So then what? Have more queues or additional MM options?

• new solo players only
  
• experienced solo players only
  
• small groups
  
• 12-mans and "those who dare"

The history of the public queue is a really excellent predictor of what will happen to CW once your "optional" MM idea is followed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tastian, on 23 January 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

PUGs outnumber 12-mans 4 to 1.
12-mans stomp PUGs, insult them, tell the to join a group or quit.
PUGs ask for solo queue in CW but are denied.
PUGs don't play CW.
CW is a ghost town.

PUGs out number 12 mans... but do PUGs out number members in a group?
Is that saying there are 48 PUGs for each 12 man?

CW can be manned by groups of even numbered groups up to 12. BUt the CW que has had only 1 scenario in 2 maps and everyone has gotten bored of the rinse wash repeat.

[DaynarFaol]

Player Abuse:

Screen Cap it.

Report it.

Eventually they will change their ways or get banned. Is it fun? No. Is it right? NO!!!!

But the only way to fix that is to report it.

I invite anyone that wants a fun time in CW to come drop with me. I will even go up into Clanner Space to do drops, as long as people are willing to listen and work TOGETHER we will have an awesome time. If you want to run with me on the long term you got to go Davion though. That is were my loyalties lie. Also the folks on the Merik Front are awesome to fight. Win or lose the fights are high caliber and fun.

Outside of a few units that seem to take it as their one true gift to be as insulting as possible I have rarely seen PUGs be insulted on the fronts I fight on.

Most of the insults I have seen has been a PUG who has failed to follow the majority (usually a partially formed unit) and then them call us abusive names or cluttering up Team cheat with how ineffective we are, and how we should go play a real game then rage quitting.

This is after they blow through 4 mechs in about 10 mins of play.

One should not assume that it is all on one side.

And it has been stated over and over again CW is NOT FOR FARMING C-BILLS. That is what the PUG Arena is for.

CW is a warfare sim. It is suppose to be high level, high difficulty combat. That is geared for TRUE team play. Not the half-way junk you see in most PUG matches.

All of people I see complaining in CW that are PUGS tend to be the ones that scream about how our "failure" to "support them" in either a frontal deathball or they hang back and snipe or they bring some sort of drop deck that makes no sense.

The issues are on BOTH SIDES, not just one.

It was stated by PGI that CW is going to NOT be like the PUG Arena.

Do not try to make it such. It is a totally different game.

They are developing 4vs4 8vs8 and PvE content for it.
So wait and see.

CW has TWO MAP, ONE GAME MODE and is barely a MONTH OLD.

If you don't like the people you are dropping against then don't drop on that front.

You can now drop with your factions.

Make friends with people in your drops. And start dropping with them.

CW as far as I know has NO ELO.

There is NO HANDICAP, no matching people up with their skill level.

If you chose to drop CW then you accept that you maybe jumping into the deep end.

I am an ave. player and I have gone up against some of the best units and players.

Fought BWC and had my head handed to me, but then a few games later we rolled them.

Fought LORDS and beat them.

Go back, READ the DEVELOPMENT NOTES and intentions presented in there.

CW was designed for the pre-mades.

PUG Arena was left the way it was for the PUGS.

It was stated BY PGI that that was the intent.

If you solo drop into CW you were:

1) Have long wait times.
2) Expect to go up against pre-mades more often then pure PUGS.
3) If you don't work as a team you are going to fail.
That is CW.

CW is what we, the unit teams, have been waiting years for.

It is were we get to have TACTICAL COMBAT.

Not rush to the middle of the map and beat on each other to death.

In the PUG Arena you go on Alpine. One of the largest maps in the game and you fight on like maybe 6 squires of it. 6!

PUG Arena is the Death Match que. It is were formalism is king and individual skill is key.

CW is were tactical skill is key and TEAM WORK is king.

The Devs even stated from the beginning that CW was going to be HARD for solo players. That if you want to make both XP and cash you PUG drop.

That has been in EVERY DEVELOPERS NOTE and EVERY DEVELOPERS BLOG since the announcement.

It is suppose to be were the 12 mans have priority.

PUG que is ruled by ELO to find sorta close matches.

CW only cares if you are a formed 12 man or not.

Welcome to the war front.

Act with courtesy and honor.
Fight with your team.
And you will have a good time.

Also ignore the morons. Like any internet area you will have trolls and elitist who are in the end not really worth the time to listen to.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"What is really hurting CW is a lack of scenarios. Its been what 2-3 weeks now. One scenario, 2 near identical maps. How long is that supposed to keep players enthralled?"

Why are they not using all the other maps? Wouldn't it make the "sucky" scenario less of a gripe b/c you would get it less? (haven't dropped yet in CW, so this may be a stupid question but..)

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 23 January 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[DaynarFaol]

The reason they are not using the older maps is that the CW maps are designed, at this time, around a base defense.

You have at least a pair of gates, a big hunking orbital gun, and generators that keep the gates close, protect the gun generator or is the gun generator.

They plan on releasing a new CW map every month. Hope is that both the new map and Counter-Attack game mode will be up and running as of the 3rd of Feb.

So we are 2 weeks away from that.

CW is A MONTH OLD PEOPLE.

And PGI took a BREAK FOR CHRISTMAS.

They have been back in the office dealing with a back log and the rest for 18 days.

Russ stated that the 3rd map was almost done, but needed work to make it right.

AGAIN IT HAS BEEN ONE MONTH SINCE CW WENT LIVE.

Give it some freaking time people.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Roknari, on 23 January 2015 - 05:11 AM, said:

Everyone wants CW to be a success. From the solo queue guys that just want to play a round or two at a time, to the hard core 12 mans that want to play CW for 5 hours strait.

If facing 12 mans is driving off pick up players, maybe the matchmaker should be changed to something other than first come first served. As a 12 man player I would not mind having to wait a few extra minutes for a matchmaker to find a 12 man "premade" for me to face.

Have the matchmaker do something like this. My 12 man joins the queue and would be next up to play on the planet we are queued for. A opposing 6 man group rounded out by 6 pick up players joins the queue to face us. Matchmaker puts my premade on hold (for up to X number of minutes [5 mins?]) If another small group plus pickups joins the queue on my side, they go in front of my 12 man premade to face the other group, while the matchmaker looks for a 12 man for my group to face.

To prevent shennanigans you would have to put is some kind of hard counter so your 12 can't be skipped multiple times. If you don't Factions will have some players queue, cancel, and re-queue to slow/stall attacks.

But doing something like that may make it more likely for a pick up group to face a pick up group. This will make it easier on the PuG players while not forcing the 12 mans to wait for an hour to get a game.

I'm sure there are some guys out there who get off on it, but most 12 man players do not enjoy the stomps. I get excited when I see -MS-, AW, ACES, TMC, ect on the other team because I know it is not going to be another sub 2 minute walk in the park. I want more of that.

My small party on a planet that had 60+ defending (it caps there in the UI) and 40 defending spent 40 minutes waiting to get a game. Our game ended in 4 minutes. The two players I had grouped with there had never played CW before. The immediate request was to go back to the regular queue because the game took too long to get sorted out.

Sadly I think this is a similar experience for a lot of folks.

[Koniving]

(Note: the girl narrating is the comatose one on the bed).
Sound familiar?
(Just thought of another fun fact: This image is on an island.)

Edited by Koniving, 23 January 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[JackkyChan]

Mr.OP MWO was built for the brain dead kids who don't care how many repeatable battles they do as long as they think there is some end game.MWO was not built as a fun simulation of the BattleTech or MechWarrior universe with true characters to play in ground battles and battle armor to spice up the ground wars.


Then you have mechs to promote the pilot to as the ultimate end game. PVE missions and PVE tutorials would have been nice as well for new players. But I have said this all at the beginning of closed beta and much more. But the DEVS are blind fools that will soak up every penny they can and close the servers down before they change there core game design.

I and all my friends have quit MWO we were a old Clan from Mechwarrior2-4 over 100 strong and im the last one posting on the forums all have moved on to WOT,WarThunder or games they can play together and competitively without all the BS.

PGI/DEVS should have made a part of MWO like MechWarrior4 Multiplayer was with a new chat/lobby launcher system but they refused to do so in there ultimate ignorance they lost thousands of paying MechWarrior2-4 players from this IP's past.So basically PGI can go to hellll I won't pay them another dime ever.

Edited by JackkyChan, 23 January 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Koniving, on 23 January 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

(Note: the girl narrating is the comatose one on the bed).
Sound familiar?
(Just thought of another fun fact: This image is on an island.)

Broken link, I wanna see the island !

[mania3c]

Daynar, on 23 January 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

CW was designed for the pre-mades.

So solo, casual and pugs are majority in every single, multi, online or any another game.. hundreds and thousands casuals, solo and pug players invested into this game.. CW was key feature of MWO, presented as community game inside the game for everyone..solo players included .. if CW is designed just for premades... CW and MW:O is just dead ..end of story..

you can throw hundreds new maps into it, several different modes but without changing core systems, they will never ever lure players back..and if anyone try to tell me CW is not ghost two..you are just making stuff up..I am checking it regularly.. and sadly..it's a ghost town..

[Soldryn]

full merc unit 12 mans that gen rush rather than fight an opposing unit team make it even worse. i still can't believe that when my unit finally got a real 12 man to fight they refused to even acknowledge there were enemies on the field. talk about stupid.

[Joseph Mallan]

Soldryn, on 23 January 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

full merc unit 12 mans that gen rush rather than fight an opposing unit team make it even worse. i still can't believe that when my unit finally got a real 12 man to fight they refused to even acknowledge there were enemies on the field. talk about stupid.

So a 12 man fulfilling the PRIMARY objective is bad game play?