217 replies to this topic

[occusoj]

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Which of course is irrelevent. We want it because it is a cool 'mech.

"I want" is an argument thats irrelevant in itself.

If that guy in a Spider-Urbie managed kills, a slow Urbanmech can do so too.
Hell Ive even seen an AC40 CDA blow two guys up and that thing isnt just slow, it also lacks armor. Not some. All of it.
The stock Urbanmech wasnt even remotely viable in MWO from day one on but it still was whined to implement it for month.

The Urbanmech never was a Jenner, Spider, FS9,.... and making it into something like that to please its buyers will make PGI loose the small rest of credibility they have left.
Especially since some mechs that already have been paid for are in a very sorry state and they dont give a damn. PB, BH, HM,.....
Give the urbie some speed plus decent durability-quirks and you might even get the absurd situation where it will survive better in battle than a Boars Head. Thats not balancing, thats ridiculous.

Besides $$$, give me a single reason why the other weaksauce mechs cant be made viable like its done with the urbie?
They make a whole new and shiny urbie but theres no time to fix things like that atrocious A1 cat? For real?

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 January 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

I don't feel I agree with you on this.

At best, it is only going to see a buff to armor and internals to equal a light medium (maybe a 40 or 45tonner). I don't see why that would be out of line with a mech running 120kph. My Vindicator 1AA is a 45 ton 116 kph medium, it also can fire 2 PPCs equalling 20 alpha damage. I wouldn't say that mech is OP.

On the flip side. They assume many (if not most) will be running an Urbie at about 50ish kph. The mech will be more vulnerable at that speed, so the armor buff works plus good acceleration and deceleration buff will be used to help it rapidly change direction.

Even with those buffs accel and decel buffs as well, an Urbie with a fast engine can still practically only accel and deccel so fast.

I don't know, I just don't see PGI saying...well it CAN go over 100kph so let's screw all the people running ballistic builds. I just don't see it.

Although on a side note. They can quirk specifically for weapons in the game, what if they quirk specifically for engines...hmm. Not sure that is a good idea, but it is an interesting thought.

It was one of a few Light that actually had near full armor. It is being given to us to fill that gamer geek itch some have. It was a lousy Mech in Universe, making it even slightly competitive will strip away the reason everyone wanted it. It is a crap Mech you wanna play when drunk!

[HlynkaCG]

The Urbie needs one quirk and one quirk only outside of it's 360 torso range.

Ballistic damage + 25% or more

[Xythius]

occusoj, on 27 January 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

The Urbanmech never was a Jenner, Spider, FS9...

Because those 'mechs are routinely running around with XL180-210's.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Edited by Xythius, 27 January 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Fragnot]

I don't really care how this Mech performs, I just want to see the first video of a 12 Urbie CW drop.

[occusoj]

Xythius, on 27 January 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Because those 'mechs are routinely running around with XL180-210's.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Exactly. You chose something non-nice and expect PGI to nice it up for you. Doesnt matter if that mech ends up completely different except for its skin.
Even though you shouldnt have gotten that before all the other already paid-off sadface mechs are made nice, you will get it. Money makes PGI do astounding things.

That might explain why the Catapults were ruined. Didnt pay enough to keep them nice.

[J0anna]

Since torso twist speed is dependent on engine, giving the Urbie a tiny engine limit, would mean it would need some insane quirks to twist speed. As it is, I'm pretty sure it will get weapon quirks that put the 9s (or 9-A, or the 9-H or the Huginn) to shame. The higher engine allows for reduced twist speed quirks.

Overall, I'd rather they released it, saw how it performed for a two weeks, the added quirks. For example if it has good hitboxes, adding quirks to structure won't be as important. Also I'd like to see PGI spend some time of quirks for the weaker clan mechs, as grinding them is an absolute chore. They've been out long enough for PGI to have the data for what they need.

[Xythius]

occusoj, on 27 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Exactly. You chose something non-nice and expect PGI to nice it up for you. Doesnt matter if that mech ends up completely different except for its skin.
Even though you shouldnt have gotten that before all the other already paid-off sadface mechs are made nice, you will get it. Money makes PGI do astounding things.

That might explain why the Catapults were ruined. Didnt pay enough to keep them nice.

How, exactly, were the Catapults ruined..? In 5 games I saw 5 Cats last night.

It really seems that you're fine with quirking things - so long as it's only the 'mechs YOU deem worthy. Doesn't work like that.

[Roadkill]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

Why yes. Yes I am.

No, you aren't. Because that's exactly what it is getting. The Urbie's gigaquirk is 300% max engine rating.

I laugh at those of you whining about its speed, but then immediately turning around and saying that +50% AC/10 ROF, +50% AC/10 range, and +50% AC/10 velocity would be perfectly okie dokie coolio.

Guess what? THAT'S NOT AN URBIE EITHER.

The Urbie got its big quirk. It gets a higher engine cap than other lights. Deal with it.

[Corbenik]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

Why yes. Yes I am.


We had wanna-be Urbies before. I was looking forward to the real thing.

Not something that moves like a stock Commando or Kit Fox or Firestarter. Because that's what'll happen. Zippy (by Urbie standards) little lights that will be quirked appropriately to a middling light.

I wanted to see what it took to make a slow, heavy-speed-at-best light 'Mech into something that PGI considered combat worthy. Yes, with a low engine speed that might be the world's first Tier 6 'Mech.

That'd be absolutely cool by me.

No one say's you have to make your Urb fast you can keep it as slow as you want

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

It was one of a few Light that actually had near full armor. It is being given to us to fill that gamer geek itch some have. It was a lousy Mech in Universe, making it even slightly competitive will strip away the reason everyone wanted it. It is a crap Mech you wanna play when drunk!

I'm aware of its roots. I know it was never this great mech.

It may be real bad at release (like you said, a mech to pilot drunk), I can live with that. I still consider myself a Catapult pilot, I am no stranger to underperforming builds lol.

That said, we are in a game where different chassis have tools (quirks) that try and buff up their performance. Regardless of the mech's prior TT performance, quirks can make a difference depending on how far PGI wants to go.

No one expects this mech to be the new meta. The Urbie is definently no Firestarter. Just give us a fun quirky mech.

I personally would like quirks that will allow it to be a middle of the road light when all is said and done. If that doesn't happen, that's fine too. I won't return the Urbie for nothing. It has a home in my mechbay.

[occusoj]

Xythius, on 27 January 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

How, exactly, were the Catapults ruined..? In 5 games I saw 5 Cats last night.

Multi-launcher ears for a start.
The once iconic K2 now isnt 95% obsolete, its 100.
This insane quirk magic tried to make a "brawler" out of it while other mechs got proper quirks. Close-range fighting isnt much fun with such a fragile mech.
LRM builds, the main role of the missile-Cats, got massively hit with each lrm nerf. The total lack of information-warfare doesnt help it the least.
Splatcat is useless due to its enormous ears that are shot off much too easy. Add the currently bad hitreg for big SRM volleys to that.
The A1 LRM-30 rainmaker has ben nurfeth by another broken mechanic, ghost heat. On the other hand, some other mechs were turned into big lrm-fountains.

Xythius, on 27 January 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

It really seems that you're fine with quirking things - so long as it's only the 'mechs YOU deem worthy. Doesn't work like that.

Its some of the Urbie fans that want to transform their mech into some nascar trashcan THEY deem viable and worthy even though its far off from what that mech ever was. Doesnt work that way either.

And to make it clear: Im not a fan of band-aid-quirk fixing stuff at all.
Its a horrible system that only covers much deeper design flaws. All mechs should fill the role they were built for. You want a light mech for urban combat, you get one. You can engage enemies in open areas, just dont expect it to keep up with mechs that were designed for that.

I dont even own a BoarsHead, sold the KFX and the rest except TW and DW. For fun I run a Streak-Summoner. Not one of them needs buffs. Neither does my FS9.
In fact I dont own any of the weaks anymore except for the Cats.

Mechs like the PB, Summoner, Adder,... are just bad. I have no more personal interest in them but still feel bad for the people who spent money for that.

[Aerik Lornes]

There is a point in this game where it goes from "I feel like I'm piloting a mech in the Battletech universe" to "There's this game that used names and art design from Battletech."* I want to play the former, the latter is much less interesting to me**. It's all about relative values, the 300% engine size quirk is NOT in keeping with those relative values.

And despite claims to the contrary, there is NO evidence either way that the ViableMech people outnumber the LoreMech people or vice versa, forum posts barely qualify as correlation and certainly not as causation. Anyone claiming the "truth" here is deluded at best or lying at worst. That said, I am open to the possibility that PGI has run off all the LoreMech people and mostly only ViableMech people are left. Which would explain why I'm the only person left from two units worth of players. most of whom I know from TT gaming.

I'm still planning to get mine Friday, but it's going to be more based on the art than the game design aspects. I'll likely even play it fast, but I'm surely not going to think of it as playing an Urbanmech.

*Yes, Battletech did use the art from some anime, but they didn't claim the game was set in those shows.
** I might have liked a hypothetical "Giant Robo Wars" by PGI just fine, hard to say.

[wanderer]

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No, you aren't. Because that's exactly what it is getting. The Urbie's gigaquirk is 300% max engine rating.

So the King of Slow's megaquirk is...not being slow.

That makes so much sense after I headdesk a few dozen times, but I lose that feeling once the concussion heals up a bit.

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I laugh at those of you whining about its speed, but then immediately turning around and saying that +50% AC/10 ROF, +50% AC/10 range, and +50% AC/10 velocity would be perfectly okie dokie coolio.

Considering that's what Urbies are for in TT? Yes. They're the little walking bunker that generally lasts long enough to burp out it's big gun's worth of ammo and then either dies or retreats. Given the heavier armor and relatively limited ammo, why yes, being able to do the same in MWO is precisely what I expected. Being able to burp out AC shells like the obviously superior Dragon or Hunchback-4G? Yep.

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Guess what? THAT'S NOT AN URBIE EITHER.

A light, slow, well-armored 'Mech that's made to ambush things, riddle them with it's AC and last just long enough to empty the clip?

Sounds exactly like an Urbie to me. We're getting a wannaUrbie instead.

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The Urbie got its big quirk. It gets a higher engine cap than other lights. Deal with it.

I am. I made this thread.

Edited by wanderer, 27 January 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[Myke Pantera]

If i was a Clan player in a Kitfox getting outrun by an UrbanMech i would be seriously pissed! I'd say 150 would be enough. It's meant to be slow after all. Improved Strukture and quirk the crap out of the ACs is the way to go.

[Roland]

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

A 125 engine gives it a top speed of 74.2 kph. That's basically a Warhawk, but without Warhawk armor or Warhawk firepower. You'd have to gigaquirk the living bejesus out of it to K-town and back at least several times to make up for that. It's 30 tons at the end of the day, with all the pros/cons that come with that.

No, Tier 5 quirks wouldn't be good enough to accomplish that, not even remotely good enough. You'd need at least Tier 8 or worse quirks. It would basically have to be a repeat of the Thunderbolt 9S, but even more extreme to the point of sheer hilarity. We'd have to literally make it have the same durability and damage output as most heavies if it had the speed of most heavies. I'm talking about massive things like +100% cooldown for certain guns and at least +30 armor points per body part (not 30% more armor, 30 points more armor).

Are you okay with gigaquirks like that?

The Urbie is supposed to be a garbage mech.

You don't need to make it useful. It's whole POINT is that it's trash. It's basically a civilian police mech.

This is generally why most folks haven't given a crap about the Urbanmech. But if you try to make it into a viable mech that can actually do something useful, then it's kind of pointless.. it's not even an urbanmech.

The Urbie should move at an absolutely glacial pace, due to its tiny 60 engine. It's top speed is only 32 kph.

Whatever though, it's just a cashgrab. None of this matters.

[FupDup]

Roland, on 27 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

The Urbie is supposed to be a garbage mech.

You don't need to make it useful. It's whole POINT is that it's trash. It's basically a civilian police mech.

This is generally why most folks haven't given a crap about the Urbanmech. But if you try to make it into a viable mech that can actually do something useful, then it's kind of pointless.. it's not even an urbanmech.

The Urbie should move at an absolutely glacial pace, due to its tiny 60 engine. It's top speed is only 32 kph.

Whatever though, it's just a cashgrab. None of this matters.

Are you volunteering to pilot one?

[Roland]

FupDup, on 27 January 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Are you volunteering to pilot one?

No, because I'm not ********.. I certainly am not going to PAY MONEY to drive an urbie.

Ultimately, like I said, none of this matters. It's just a cash grab mech designed to exploit nostalgia. But it's not even going to be an urbie. It's gonna be a generic gun bag that kind of looks like an urbie.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 January 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

I don't feel I agree with you on this.

At best, it is only going to see a buff to armor and internals to equal a light medium (maybe a 40 or 45tonner). I don't see why that would be out of line with a mech running 120kph. My Vindicator 1AA is a 45 ton 116 kph medium, it also can fire 2 PPCs equalling 20 alpha damage. I wouldn't say that mech is OP.

On the flip side. They assume many (if not most) will be running an Urbie at about 50ish kph. The mech will be more vulnerable at that speed, so the armor buff works plus good acceleration and deceleration buff will be used to help it rapidly change direction.

Even with those buffs accel and decel buffs as well, an Urbie with a fast engine can still practically only accel and deccel so fast.

I don't know, I just don't see PGI saying...well it CAN go over 100kph so let's screw all the people running ballistic builds. I just don't see it.

Although on a side note. They can quirk specifically for weapons in the game, what if they quirk specifically for engines...hmm. Not sure that is a good idea, but it is an interesting thought.

especially as with the big engine, the urbie will be running some pretty laughable firepower...and not be going fast enough to get any lag shield anyhow.

[FupDup]

Roland, on 27 January 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

No, because I'm not ********.. I certainly am not going to PAY MONEY to drive an urbie.

Ultimately, like I said, none of this matters. It's just a cash grab mech designed to exploit nostalgia. But it's not even going to be an urbie. It's gonna be a generic gun bag that kind of looks like an urbie.

The reason I asked that semi-rhetorical question was because I think people who believe that certain mechs are supposed to be superior to everything because lore shouldn't be allowed to use those mechs, and people who believe certain mechs should be unused shouldn't be allowed to use mechs other than the ones in question.

It puts things into perspective, the "shoe on the other foot" so to say. It's to try to eliminate "agendas" and what not, because otherwise somebody might ask for their favorite mech to be king of everything because they want a crutch (i.e. people who think the Timberwolf is "overnerfed") or they ask for some other mech to be useless so that they can get very easy kills (i.e. most of the people asking for nerfs to light mechs).

If you think it's completely fine for something to be worthless in every form, I think it's fair to make you have to use that mech. If you wouldn't enjoy that experience, perhaps that would reveal that the idea to make it useless wasn't a very good idea in the first place?