54 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

I see this question pop up about once a week, if not more, and I have a stock response I go with, but maybe a sticky under this category (and then copied to General and stickied there) would be a good idea.

The short version:

In the long, long ago, a young corporation named FASA was created to make use of the Traveler RPG license. Around 1984, they came out with a game called Battledroids which was a game taking place in the far future utilizing giant, stompy robots. In 1985, they decided to change the name to Battletech for fear of getting sued by Lucasarts (who had a trademark on "droid").

FASA bought the license to images for several giant stompy robots from Macross and thus were born a whole series of 'mechs that existed in both universes (Robotech and Battletech). Flash forward to 1994, and...oops, turns out that the company that sold those licenses to FASA might not have actually had the rights to them.

This led to a series of lawsuits from the current (actual) license-holder: Harmony Gold.

Out of this, two classes of the cross-pollinated 'mechs were born: Re-seen and Unseen.

Re-seen 'mechs were redesigned to the point they no longer resembled the Macross 'mechs.

Unseen were 'mechs that could not be effectively redesigned without losing so much of the original shape that they'd be unrecognizable.

Several of the Re-seen mechs are in the game now (Locust, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, and Battlemaster). None of the Unseen are.

The Unseen include the following 'mechs and, until such time (ie. never) an agreement is reached with Harmony Gold, they will never be seen in Mechwarrior Online:

• Stinger
  
• Wasp
  
• Valkyrie
  
• Phoenix Hawk
  
• Scorpion (also a four-legger, which is problematic in its own right)
  
• Rifleman
  
• Crusader
  
• Archer
  
• Warhammer
  
• Marauder
  
• Goliath (another four-legger)
  
• Longbow
  
• (there may be others, but this is what I can remember - comment below and I'll add them here)

For more information regarding the lawsuit, look here:

http://www.kaempen.o...ld_v._fasa.html

For MWO's view on these 'mechs:

http://mwomercs.com/...94#entry4140694

Edited by Dawnstealer, 27 January 2015 - 10:45 AM.

[Bront]

Phoenix Hawk is the biggest one you're missing from your list.

But yes, they aren't happening outside of PGI making up new names and looks for the mechs and never acknowledging they're derivative. Harmony Gold is effectively a pattent troll company that FASA signed an agreement with when they probably shouldn't.

[Dawnstealer]

Bront, on 27 January 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Phoenix Hawk is the biggest one you're missing from your list.

But yes, they aren't happening outside of PGI making up new names and looks for the mechs and never acknowledging they're derivative. Harmony Gold is effectively a pattent troll company that FASA signed an agreement with when they probably shouldn't.

Added. And agreed. If Microsoft got involved, I think Harmony Gold would fold like a wet napkin, but if it's just PGI - they're just too small to lock legal horns.

[John Wolf]

Simple answer, they're not yours.. they're HG's, and HG locked them down. So, they're a no go. Moving on.

[Dawnstealer]

John Wolf, on 27 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Simple answer, they're not yours.. they're HG's, and HG locked them down. So, they're a no go. Moving on.

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say you didn't read the post, but your answer is also correct.

[Bront]

FYI...

Mike Forst on the Unseen

[Kanatta Jing]

The Scorpion and Goliath are from an anime called Dougram, much like the Shadowhawk and the Griffin. Harmony Gold only owning the rights to Macross

The only thing holding those two mechs from entering the game is the Quad thing.

[Dawnstealer]

Bront, on 27 January 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

FYI...

Mike Forst on the Unseen

I knew I had seen it somewhere (or UNSEEN it...hahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa...). Adding to the original post.

Kanatta Jing, on 27 January 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

The Scorpion and Goliath are from an anime called Dougram, much like the Shadowhawk and the Griffin. Harmony Gold only owning the rights to Macross

The only thing holding those two mechs from entering the game is the Quad thing.

Not entirely accurate:



Note the Scorpion is in the left column and the Goliath is the bottom right.

*sigh:*

Edited by Dawnstealer, 27 January 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[John Wolf]

Dawnstealer, on 27 January 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say you didn't read the post, but your answer is also correct.

I read the post, I simply made a quicker version of it. *shrug*

[Dawnstealer]

John Wolf, on 27 January 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

I read the post, I simply made a quicker version of it. *shrug*

Agreed, I just don't think people would get that shortened version. But yes - that's the general gist: MWO doesn't own the license to those specific mechs, so we're not getting them in the game any time soon.

[BUDFORCE]

Where's my Rifleman?

[Dawnstealer]

BUDFORCE, on 27 January 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Where's my Rifleman?

That, right there, is how you get a punch straight to the butt.

[Bront]

BUDFORCE, on 27 January 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Where's my Rifleman?

The Jager imitates it quite well. Particularly the FIrebrand.

[ScorpionNinja]

Dawnstealer, on 27 January 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Added. And agreed. If Microsoft got involved, I think Harmony Gold would fold like a wet napkin, but if it's just PGI - they're just too small to lock legal horns.

Yep,
Think of Harmony Gold as an Oil Company. They have all the power and anytime a new Electric technology comes to form from a brilliant inventor, which could change the world for the greater Good of Cleaner Air,Water for the Planet and a Cheaper form of Energy..... Oil Company just BUYs them out and closes the case!

[MarineTech]

Dawnstealer, on 27 January 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

Not entirely accurate:

Revell's Robotech Defenders series was a whole other ball of wax. They licensed the designs direct from the original Japanese companies before Harmony Gold even came on the scene.

http://en.wikipedia....otech_Defenders

The defenders were actually all Fang of the Sun Dougram mechs, even though they called them Robotech.

A later Robotech Changers series by Revell actually used Robotech Veritech designs.

Edited by MarineTech, 27 January 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Bront, on 27 January 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

The Jager imitates it quite well. Particularly the FIrebrand.

Jager's actually five tons heavier - it's a better mech.

MarineTech, on 27 January 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

Revell's Robotech Defenders series was a whole other ball of wax. They licensed the designs direct from the original Japanese companies before Harmony Gold even came on the scene.

http://en.wikipedia....otech_Defenders

The defenders were actually all Fang of the Sun Dougram mechs, even though they called them Robotech.

A later Robotech Changers series by Revell actually used Robotech Veritech designs.

That's kind of cool - hadn't heard that. I had the 1:48 scale Wolverine and the one with the helicopter. Fun models.

[MarineTech]

Yes, they were.

I had the Griffin.

Bandai and a company called Wave have released models of the Rifleman (Defender), Archer (Spartan), Longbow (Phalanx), Warhammer (Tomahawk), Stinger, & Wasp (Veritech) mechs under their original Macross names. With a little kit bashing, you can pull off a Phoenix Hawk too. The Wave kits are much more detailed and articulated than the Bandai kits.

Good Smile/Max Factory have released the Shadowhawk (Dougram) & Griffin (Roundfacer) kits and the Wolverine (Blockhead) is going to be available in the next week or so. I'm holding out hope they'll be coming out with the Thunderbolt (Ironfoot) as well.

You can pick them up on Amazon. I bought them all.

I've got the Bandai Rifleman almost complete. Just needs decals. I'm going to be starting the Griffin next.

[Dawnstealer]

Arrrrrrrg - now I want to pilot them.

[Tarogato]

Going to support this for "Sticky'ing", it needs to be done. However, I don't think this is the right forum to do it. Maybe in New Player or General Disc., probably latter.

[SpiralFace]

Dawnstealer, on 27 January 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

not entirely accurate

Actually, it is your info that is not entirely accurate.

Robotech defenders was a "Revell"/ 20th century imports initiative before HG was ever involved. Back when Revell was just licensing the rights to the mecha model kits and releasing them to the west. The original unseen artwork was used by Batteldroids / tech through a sublicensing deal with 20th century imports when it was importing the models under the robotech defenders before HG was ever involved.

Revell's robotech defenders was published 2-3 years before HG would even start the importing process on the robotech figures. (Which is why your image has revell tags, but no HG tags.)

They even had a DC comic out. Again, without HG ever being involved.



Fang of the sun Dougram was the original anime that the Shadowhawk, Griffen, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Scorpion, Goliath, and Battlemaster originally came from. HG does not own the rights to those images and unless they pick up Dougram for import, they never will.

HG only became involved when their importing plans where complicated by the fact that Revell already had the licensing rights to the Macross merchandise. Which lead them to conciser a partnership on the endevor that unfortunately left the 20th century imports deal with the BT guys in a precarious spot.

If you want to learn more, I highly recommend this read, which follows the bread trail the best that I've seen:

Edited by SpiralFace, 27 January 2015 - 09:45 PM.