30 replies to this topic

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Update: Thanks for the issues/suggestions so far. I am trying to limit this specifically to the merc/clan issues that has caused so much frustration recently. Please try to limit your post to one per unit (a couple for the larger ones is fine) and do your best to be concise. Also please try to think about not just your unit but also what is good and enjoyable for everyone, and please no arguing as this is not a debate thread.


Hey all,

Wolf/Bear/Merc representatives have met recently to see if we could reduce some of the tension in game and on the forums. While we have reached no "accord" I think all parties are in agreement a lot of the problem stems from the beta issues which include:

1) No good system for mercs to actually get battles from. Merc units want attack avenues but they really don't have a good way to get lots of them. Also their is no "contract" system for them that encourages them to join with factions that need players.

2) Clans are frustrated in that they don't want to just give up planets so the mercs can brawl. This also seems to go against the spirit of the game.

I spoke with John Wolf recently and he has agreed to pass our issues and possible solutions to the developers.

I'd like each unit to put down an issue and their idea for the solution in regards to the limitations of the present system. Larger units like CWI and MercStar feel free to post a couple rather than just one.

I'm very much hoping that some of the units that are at the center of these frustrating issues in the beta such as CWI, Delta, and MercStar will post. Once we have a complete list I'll compile it and send it to John.

Merc/Bear/Wolf units who were involved with some of the issues this weekend please post below. Only one post per unit plz, I don't want this to get too messy.

Thanks for your contributions all and please remember to name your unit affiliation.

Blueduck

Edited by Blueduck, 27 January 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Dracol]

Main issue: Ceasefire among all Clans removes Clan v Clan combat from Community Warfare. This would be the case if Lore was strictly followed.

In Lore, one battle would be used to determine the owner of a Clan world contested by 2 Clans, but that is not a system that could be used to offer Clan V Clan in a Community Warfare environment. There are too many players that would want to participate.

Secondary issue: Ceasefires leaving only 1 or 2 planets to attack. When these planets are at 100% and no one is attacking, the only option is to not participate in Community Warfare, or attack a faction's planet that a ceasefire as been made with.

Tertiary issue: No mechanisms to represent pirates, hold out rebel forces on conquered worlds, or IS/Clan units utilizing pirate jump points to strike deep into enemy territory.

Edited by Dracol, 27 January 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[Noesis]

Suggestions forum so that the whole community can be involved with the dialouge?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Clan v Clan battle could still occur over Trials of Possessions, Blooding Raids etc. That's not a huge problem. Plus the game is striving for a sandbox feel, which is allowing for player units to do their own thing. I'm sure there's a middle ground that could allow for player-influenced relationships/ceasefires that still allowed for an outlet of combat -- whether Clan v Clan or not.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Another item....find a method that allows use of the opposing side's tech...maybe a different mode that impacts CW differently than planetary capture? This might promote some loyalty for the units currently wandering from place to place, it also would make alot of loyalists happy, who are stuck either running alt-accounts or only playing their opposite-tech in public drops.

[Noesis]

Blueduck, on 27 January 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

I'd like each unit to put down an issue and their idea for the solution in regards to the limitations of the present system. Larger units like CWI and MercStar feel free to post a couple rather than just one.

We will present issues as per our right of equality as MWO players. You cannot control our involvement with a game based on how you perceive thoses rights and it isnt your place to impose how we relate to the developers either.

Population bias does not cater for all spectrums of interests here either so I would prefer a little more objectivity in your views when it comes to player relationships.

[Noesis]

MRBC with player led reviews wth some aspect of loyaty to denote higher rewards or bonus payments from representative player units.

Economy, Salvage, Planetary infrastructure, Black Market all purposeful layers needed to make the value of planetary conquest have meaning. Then perhaps you can discern better what the involvements might be so ypu can make a more informed choice and decision about the MERC /Faction relationship. Especially if ultimatley factions will own the planets and the MERCs receive higher payments and bonuses to assist in that process but don't end up owning the planet and infrastructure.

Bandit and Pirate still needs to be recognised as a valid form of gameplay still with more afforded freedoms with interaction that cannot be controlled by factions, but less invovled with the economy or planetary conquest and perhaps applying raiding gameplay that can change the battlefield values or balances for it as then applied for the planetary conquest (or the process of sticking flags into planets). This would be more "tactically" orientated with drops effecting other drops based on results (cause an effect) as opposed to strategically shifting the plnaetary conquest values. See economy, salvage, black market and planetary infrastructure above for related issues and to afford this style of gameplay to having a differing purpose and differing bonuses using the Black Market and flexibility but less economical returns for those limited fiscal gains as a result. Salvage being an important mechanism for this kind of gameplay with perhaps the applied use of Mixed drop decks (i.e.can utilise both IS and Clan Mechs).


Most if not all of the above has been voiced to PGI before and in more genralised terms the Devs have suggested that these elements are already under review.

Edited by Noesis, 27 January 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Noesis, I'm not trying to restrict anyone but rather just carry a set us issues to the dev that led to the disagreements from this weekend.

I was going to try to roll up the specific issues that led to the frustration from this weekend rather than create broad suggestion thread.

That said I do support what you would like as well but it really doesn't relate exactly to the ongoing problems that caused a lot of anger recently.

[Vlad Ward]

Wolves get teeth kicked in, laughed at on forums for days on end.

Write letter to Devs about how to fix CW so people stop kicking their teeth in.

Wolves not realize this will only make more people laugh and kick their teeth in.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Vlad Ward, on 27 January 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Wolves get teeth kicked in, laughed at on forums for days on end.

Write letter to Devs about how to fix CW so people stop kicking their teeth in.

Wolves not realize this will only make more people laugh and kick their teeth in.

I don't really care about wolf/bear/merc in this thread but rather making the game enjoyable for everyone. Mostly this is for the mercs that feel they don't have enough people to fight.

Now why don't you take your 5 year old self to a different thread.

[Vlad Ward]

Blueduck, on 27 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

I don't really care about wolf/bear/merc in this thread but rather making the game enjoyable for everyone.

Blueduck, on 27 January 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

I'm not trying to restrict anyone but rather just carry a set us issues to the dev that led to the disagreements from this weekend.

I was going to try to roll up the specific issues that led to the frustration from this weekend rather than create broad suggestion thread.

k

Edited by Vlad Ward, 27 January 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Vlad Ward, on 27 January 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

k

Yes, go away now Jaguar with a Wolf name. There are plenty of nice threads for you to troll in else where.

[Kain Demos]

Vlad Ward, on 27 January 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Wolves get teeth kicked in, laughed at on forums for days on end.

Write letter to Devs about how to fix CW so people stop kicking their teeth in.

Wolves not realize this will only make more people laugh and kick their teeth in.

Check the Map. No teeth have been kicked in.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Kain Thul, on 27 January 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

Check the Map. No teeth have been kicked in.

I appreciate the spirit Kain but lets not feed the troll. This thread has a very simple purpose and he is simply trying to derail it for no reason other than to be a jerk.

Are you going to post for your unit?

Edited by Blueduck, 27 January 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I think you should not be limiting the # of ideas here by unit.

Just have a quick roll up of what everyone offers up. There's certainly no need to show favoritism to any one unit anyway.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Lukoi Banacek, on 27 January 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think you should not be limiting the # of ideas here by unit.

Just have a quick roll up of what everyone offers up. There's certainly no need to show favoritism to any one unit anyway.

I really don't mean to be limiting, here is my issue though.

We need a concise list and if I roll it up that means I'm going to have to edit it; this is a toxic point and people will accuse me of altering their ideas.

All units are free to post in regards to some of the merc issues everyone sees but please try to limit because this could turn into an encyclopedia. xD

[Ultra-Laser]

If they do allow Tech mixing, not necessarily on individual chassis, but perhaps allowing a fraction of mechs in a given premade to be from the other tech base. IS teams are allowed an amount of clan mechs based on how much they've been salvaging clan mechs in the invading front while clanners could be allowed to use IS chassis produced on IS woulds taken by the invasion zone. This would give teams a way to mix and match (Like a lance of Dragons with a Hellbringer prime providing ECM to from a skirmisher lance) while also adding incentive to taking and holding particular planets.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Some form of tech mixing is popular for people that want versatility for merc units. If someone can give me a set issue and possible solution (please keep it simple) I'll put it on the list

[Lukoi Banacek]

Don't all of the parties involved in this thread have some valid concerns that come under here:

http://mwomercs.com/...lan-ghost-bear/

Or these folks:

http://mwomercs.com/...spoof-accounts/

It's all very similar, interlinked concepts that are impacting immersion, the availability of matches, lore, earnings, populations, accountability etc. just as your spat this week did.

edit: not sure how many solutions we can offer up that are not pie in the sky ideas based on metrics we cannot see and/or mechanics of the game we don't know actually work.

Some of the concerns right now are pretty obvious:

1 - how can loyalist units have more influence over the "decisions" of the faction WITHOUT becoming overbearing pigs, lording it over the rest of the community?

2 - how does PGI further discriminate between Mercenary units and loyalists better? Right now mercs have the great bonuses of being able to change fronts periodically, swap tech periodically etc. Loyalists get a minor bonus to LP earnings. Not equitable really. But that leads to...

3 - hows does PGI incentivize Mercs to encourage their habitual return to a faction? How do loyalists influence that (if at all)? MRBC options?

4 - How can community driven politics be better implemented into the CW experience so that ceasefires, agendas etc can be "put out there" and considered by more than the units and forumites? And all of that, without giving over control of the faction to players.

There are other concerns I'm sure. I offered up an MRBC option that was all carrot, no stick earlier, that I'll bring here for consideration as an option for #3 (which in turn might positively impact #2 and indirectly, #1).

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 27 January 2015 - 05:09 PM.

[Alexander Steel]

Wait, if the Clan's don't get to fight each other because of "Lore" than the IS shouldn't get to fight each other for the same reasons. The IS stopped fighting the second the clans invaded, and didn't start up against until 3057, the same year that the Falcons and Wolves took knives to each other and gutted themselves.