169 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 01 February 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Based on the behavior I am receiving in this thread, and how I have tried my hardest not to be rude to you or insulting, and I get insulted and rude posts back,

So far I haven't been rude. If you think I'm being rude, your sensitivity is WAY to high.

Trust me, when I'm being rude, you'll know it.

Am I being dainty and trying to interpret your statements in the best of all possible light, granting you huge swaths of "benefit of doubt", from my perspective?

No.

I read what others post, at face value, and respond in kind and expect that what I post will be read, at face value, and responded to in kind.

If I believe people have misunderstood what I posted, I redirect them BACK to the post and tell them to re-read and try to comprehend what they've missed. For the most part I'm using plain English so I figure they'll catch on.

If they refuse, or continue to miss the point (either through choice or an inability comprehend), my repeating it umpteen different ways really serves no purpose.

That's not rude, it's just blunt.

Too bad in our 'politically correct' 'participation award' generation, "bluntness" is considered rude. It's not, it's just blunt.

I kind of feel that this is most of what Percival's issues stem from. He got "blunt" responses and CHOSE to be offended.

That's not my problem, that's his.

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I don't disbelieve that in those two drops you harassed Tesunie until he felt that he had to leave because the team was so unbearable in their behavior. All this because he wouldn't bring a light mech with jump where a light mech would have done fine. (the rest of the 11 other players in a team should never be able to dictate what the 12th player has to bring in. If it was me in that situation I would have told you I currently do not have a jumping light set up. If demanded to take the Champion Firestarter, I would have said "ahh... no I could really use the XP and GXP on my account..." then followed up with "But I can take my Raven 3L out as I already have it in my drop deck and its set up.)

I'm sure had something like that happened this would have been a different conversation. Again as mentioned before, people got "blunt" and Percival got offended.

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As for the post deletion: I also included my own in this category as they are off topic (we wont mention that some of these off topic posts can be seen as abusive and offensive to others involved). Its not to hide some dirty little post or some unpleasant info, as I have said nothing that I am ashamed of. I would just like to see this thread back on track and cleaned up to being on topic discussions (that would be getting rid of all this junk involving an incident that is not mentioned in this thread's OP).

That's just it though, most of the conversations I've had in ANY forum (not just the MWO forums) they meander a bit, and NORMALLY, it's ok UP UNTIL THE POINT someone mentions "{Godwin's Law}'s" or something, but THAT is a whole other subject isn't it?

I personally do not feel it's necessary to have strict and inviolable subject matter on posts. LET THEM DRIFT... If the subject of the original post, nor the original poster themselves, isn't strong enough to hold the thread on course based on its own merits, or the efforts of the original poster, it doesn't deserve to stay on topic.

Eventually it dies due to lack of interest.

A nice natural process where SOMETIMES real gems of content can spawn in and of themselves, and THOSE gems can be brought to life being reposted in their own threads (I've seen it happen MANY times here in this MWO forum). But holding to a "the subject is X and nothing BUT X" nope, strangles the flow of thought.

I don't hold to it.

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As a side note, you might want to get your own facts straight, seeing as there was not a +10 man team there... (as stated in the second post of this thread...)

Happened far enough back and the two separate drops it's hard not to get every thing mushed together.

I'll try and keep it as accurate as I can recall.

I just wish Percival would do the same.

[Burktross]

InRev, on 01 February 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

I like how one robot is in Marik colors and the other in Davion.

Did you plan that?

Um... sure...
Totally wasn't just lying around in my gifs folder...

Course not...

[Stoned Prophet]

From 31 January 2015 - 10:21 PM:

I'll take all the posts, one at a time... as now you all wish to gang beat me. What? being rude to me in match wasn't enough for you guys?



You, my good sir, where NOT in the match with me, unless you mean the first match that I played to completion and then MOVED to a different world to try and AVOID that team again.

I also dropped Davion faster BECAUSE of them, so I could AVOID them.

My reasons have already been stated. It's not my fault you guys seem hurt because I mention overcompetitiveness, and did not mention the incident that has bogged down this thread. Though, thanks for bumping it.



Actually... you have brought forth an event, that wasn't even mentioned in my OP, and continue to harass me here. Now, from your behavior here in this thread, is it a wonder how I felt insulted inside the match? You're basically insulting me here anyway. Thanks for proving my point...

Also, I reported you guys due to your actions. So, makes us fair and even. Now, you are trying the name and shame routine. Last I recall, you are suppose to report and let PGI deal with it.

For another point, I wasn't trying to force you guys to play by my style, and was willing to actually play by your tactics. However, I wasn't asked "Hey, you have a jumping fast mech you can change to?" I was demanded "Use the Champion Fire Starter!" Now, which goes farther? I wasn't even able to start changing before I got bombarded by more demands to "change to the Champion Firestarter". I'm sorry if I didn't wish to play that way.

You tried to force me to play your way. You didn't ask me to play your way. There is a difference. Then, to be berated for not playing your way, you insulted me. This second part is what leads you to being in the wrong. And then the second match happened, where I was promptly told to basically shut up and and do as you don't say when I was just providing a little helpful advice/suggestion. I did not demand anything. So, you said "we have it", so I let you "have it". You basically asked me to leave, and I was DONE playing with people who were trolling me and treating me badly. Thus, I left.

PS: Caps lock is not bolding. Bolding is bolding.



Repeatedly demanded you mean. There was no asking. If only my print screen was working at the time, as PGI changed it so print screens did not work for a short while. Otherwise, I could post up your "asking" right here for all to see exactly what was said.

Also, you posted your tactics in teamchat, after we came into contact with the enemy. Not before. I was reading them, but when the chat goes "now don't be seen... TESUNIE WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!" It's a little late by that point if you can type in what I'm doing.

PS for you: We were already spotted. Before the type was EVEN ENTERED IN. They were actually spotted already by the enemy on that first match. I'd also like to mention, while the light rush on the other side was happening, I managed to open the gamma gate, and take out all three turrets on that side of the map for the team for their second rush. Your welcome by the way... But then again, you guys conveniently ignored that part, didn't you? We also won on the second wave, so apparently I did not affect the grand strategy if not helped it out with my actions. I also had one of the better match scores within the match as well... But we can ignore that as I was not able to get that screen shot either.



No. I was not asked. I was demanded. But, considering your attitude here, I don't think it'd be that far of a stretch to see how rude your teammates where to me. Thing is, I don't have to play the same way you do. PGI does not force me to. I'm sorry if your feelings where hurt by me not bringing in that jumping light mech that first match I had with you. Thus, your demands and harassment in match were in the wrong. If you can't see that, I'm sorry.

I refused to play the second match with you, only after the rude remark I received. We may be a team, but I don't have to play with you if you are insulting me. I don't have to be abused for your benefit.

I actually did not break the code of conduct when my reaction was to remove myself from a hostile situation with my own teammates. A situation I had already tried to take measures to avoid, and I've taken farther measures to avoid even now. I did not ask you to cater to me, you asked me to cater to you and you where not nice about it. Your own remark makes no sense here.

I'd also like to mention, this coming from the person who can't even post with the account that was actually there?

By the way, I've been treated with far more respect and have had far more fun with Marik than I did with Davion. So, I'll stay there, thanks for your concern. (Oh wait. That was suppose to be an insult. SNAP! I got that wrong. Thanks for continuing to prove my point here, as you continue to treat me poorly.)



Ah, but they demanded I take not just a fast mech, but a fast jumping mech. So... in my case...

PS: We were playing in a unit, and THEY did actually work with him to open the gate so we all could pass. It's called tactics, strategy and teamwork. It's also using what is available and not trying to force someone to use something they don't want to.



Ask? You DEMANDED I change. There is a difference between asking and demanding. But, believe what you will. I did not say I had only phoenix mechs. I was not permitted to say anything at all about what mechs I owned. If I managed to say anything, I said I was using all my phoenix mechs. Using and owning only phoenix mechs are two distinctly different things. Just as much as demanding and asking. So yeah.

It still has nothing to do with this thread...



Actually... I only had two LRM based mechs. The rest where direct fire mechs. So, what does my use of LRMs have to do with the topic of "competitiveness" again? By the way, I was sticking with my lancemates. You seem to not understand what the event was that happened...

They said jumping fast mechs. I switched to my Locust, which is fast. They demanded I switch to the Champion Firestarter. They did not ask me to change my mech to a fast jumping mech I might own, they assumed that I didn't own any other mechs but Phoenix mechs. A suggestion to take a fast jumping mech would have been received a lot better than a demand. How do you like it if people in a match demanded you jump into the Champion Firestarter? Not asked, demanded. How does that make you feel? And when they spam it (one or two people) that you take the Champion Firestarter over and over again before you can even respond... It's rather insulting to be honest.

All I did was shoot while in my Shadowhawk at an enemy who had already spotted me, and then aimed at the generator when their head was ducked down. What was I suppose to do? Stand there while being seen and let them just shoot me anyway without shooting back? I was working my way to the same cover as the rest of my lance.

And you weren't even there, so please. Continue. Unless you also had an alternate account you aren't posting with and you really were there.



So, now please tell me everyone. How does this relate to competitiveness again? Or do we have to continue to go round and round this same topic that has already been answered about my side of the story and what the other side wishes to say? Let me summarize things then:
- Yes, I did purposefully leave a single match of CW. I do not deny this.
- Yes, I did not take a light jumping mech when my team demanded (sorry, asked with force).
- Yes, I left that match after dealing with the team previously, and dealing with a situation that I was feeling insulted in. I left the second match once insulted, weather they see it as such or not is not my problem. From my perspective, it felt insulting and demeaning.
- Yes, I finished a full match dealing with those, and I'll be blunt from my perspective, jerks. I was willing to play the second match with them, had they not continued to insult me and then ask "insult? What insults? I didn't see no insults" after I announced my intentions of leaving. My memory spans longer than a single match. I was not about to play with people whom made me feel bad. They insulted me and harassed me in one match. I was not about to go through that abuse again.
- Yes, I tried to avoid them, and took steps to try and not drop with them again. I still ended up dropping with them for a second time.
- Yes, I ended up having to move over to the clan boarder to avoid them completely for the rest of that day of CW for me. As I said, I took measures to make sure I did not drop with them again after the first, and then the second, match with them.
- Yes, I did not mention this event in the OP of this thread. I did not mention the unit name. I still haven't.
- Yes, I did report them for their behavior. I'm sure they reported me for leaving the match. The topic should be dropped as PGI should be well enough to handle it.
- Yes, I have taken even farther measures to make sure I don't drop with them by even changing my faction. I have gone completely out of my way to try and avoid them now. I have had to hinder my own enjoyment of this game to get away from a group of people I felt was abusive to me, and have taken measures so as to prevent it from happening again.
- Yes, I was hindered by my own withdrawal from that match as my mechs where locked in a CW match, and I had to wait for the match to end before I could drop with my Phoenix mechs again in another CW match.
- Yes, if I drop with that unit again, and they treated me fairly, I would stay in the match and work with them. If I was harassed as I was before, and insulted again, I will likely leave the match again. This time, I'll make sure I have screenshots of the conversation saved. You treat other people like trash, then they should have no obligation to stay with a group of people who make them feel insulted. If it bothers you, than maybe people should watch their own attitudes and what (and how) they say things to others.
- No, me leaving a single match of CW should have no impact and should not invalidate my OP of this thread.
- No, I'm not a machine over here. I'm in fact a real live breathing human being. I have feelings too.

I did not follow you, as I have previously explained that I happened upon your post. Following requires an intention to do something. I had no intention of finding your thread. Therefor, I was not following you. I also have not insulted you, thus proving the fact that you consider anyone telling you something other than you want to hear is an insult.

From 31 January 2015 - 10:35 PM:

Sad, but true. It was not the intention of the thread for anything like this to happen when I wrote up the OP. All this because I wrote one tiny sentence at the start: "After dropping with a competitive group a couple of times in CW matches,..." And I wasn't even directly mentioning the incident being "fought" over!

Is it too late to edit that one line out now? Probably so... cause then I'd probably be accused of changing the OP or something...

How terrible that your actions have consequences. So sad.

Edited by Stoned Prophet, 02 February 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[lsp]

Well written, but I disagree with competitiveness being a bad thing. It's what makes these type of games fun. Winning is the fun, and it's all that matters. Why I only play min/max, and not just in this game, in every game.

Edited by lsp, 01 February 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Tesunie]

Well, thank you for your wonderful bumps here gentlemen. Your continued behavior just goes to continue to prove my point, which is funny as I never even brought up this event in this thread, and it was in fact brought up be someone else.

I tire of explaining myself. I will do so one final time about that event:
1. I did not ask anyone to change to my tactics, and I did not ask anyone to change their mechs.
2. I was demanded (not asked, there is still a difference) to change my mechs and my tactics. As those who actually know me can say, if I'm asked to preform a role, I often will. However, I was not asked.
3. For those who were not there, and I can post a screen shot to prove who was not there and who was if desired (but that'd be name and shame without that unit granting permission), stop talking like you know what happened. You have no idea what happened in those matches and are coming up with rather fictitious facts that did not occure.
4. If your account you are posting with was not there, don't post about the incident with your "ghost" account. This only makes you look cowardly as you seem afraid to show your unit colors and the account in question.
5. For the match having less than a 10 man unit involved, which means only 6 other possible people were involved outside that unit, a lot of people seem to be saying "I was there and I know what happened".
6. Your posts, and that incident, are irrelevant to the OP of this topic, and does not invalidate the topic nor the original post.
7. The attitude you continue to present to me continues to prove the point as to why I felt that the environment of that match within my own team dynamics was hostile and only continues to validate my reasons for leaving that match. Believe what you will. I can only go from my perspective and my experience.
8. I have left a job, a real life job, for being in a similar situation. I do not have to tolerate it in a video game designed for people to have fun on. If I left a paying job for a similar situation, then leaving a match for the same reasons is nothing in comparison. If there is a problem with it, then PGI can deal with me as they see fit, as I'm sure reports went wild about it. It is not your job nor your responsibility to "punish me for my actions". That is PGI's responsibility and job. You have reported me for leaving the match? Then you should leave it to them to deal with me as they see fit.
9. The first match, we won by wave two. You guys where the ones who made the issue into as big of a deal as it was. Then, you continued to create a big deal about it throughout the match.
10. I believe saying, "I suggest that light mechs scout the gates, and the slower mechs stay near the generators and move to intercept the enemy forces based on Intel the lights provide" is not a bad suggestion for the defense on the second match in question. Being told "Don't worry, we have it" is a very rude response to a possible plan, when one could have simply laid out a different plan instead. All that, because they decided to continue their poor attitude from the previous match we had together. I did not have to tolerate a second match of the same poor sportsmanship. In the end, I only feel bad for the other two pugs in the match, as the unit was the ones responsible for me having to make my decision.
11. The Screen Capture was/is broken within the game itself. So many of my print screens I took did not get saved and copied over the previous print screen. Thus, when I went to look for the screen captures and they were not there, the print screens where lost. I managed to save one, showing the team of the second match in question. So yes, this actually happened. It happened in the last patch, when they moved the user folder and changed the user folder so it was suppose to show the profile's name. Now there is nothing contained within the "user" folder within the program folders, for the moment. I also checked my Documents folder encase PGI managed to move the folder outside the game folder and into a My Document address.
12. This will be my last response to you all (in that group). I've explained my reasons. I have taken steps to avoid playing with that group, even to the hindrance of my own playing abilities. My story has not shifted, while your remarks seem to shift like sand in the wind. I admit what actions I did, while you continue to deny your own participation within that event. Your remarks shall be your own undoing, as you continue to embolden my own point within the OP of this thread. You were not as innocent as you seem to be trying to make yourselves to be. I can admit my own faults and my own mistakes. You seem to wish to resort to name calling (Percival for one example here at least) and continued harassing remarks about an incident I have no denied.

Feel free to continue to bump this thread though. It does not hinder me any.

PS: https://www.google.c...ival+definition
Percival was a knight of the round table. Maybe this is a great compliment?

[Tesunie]

lsp, on 01 February 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Well written, but I disagree with competitiveness being a bad thing. It's what makes these type of games fun. Winning is the fun, and it's all that matters. Why I only play min/max, and not just in this game, in every game.

Competitiveness is not a bad thing. It actually can be a very good thing. However, when taken too far and placed in the wrong places, it can also turn into a bad thing at the same time.

There is also nothing wrong with Min/Maxing either, as it's only logical that people will find the best ways they can find to preform certain actions and tasks. There is nothing wrong with this either, even if it can sometimes be the creator of some annoying tactics and loadouts. (I do hope you get what I mean here.)

If this was actions against an NPC, then by all means winning is going to be the fun. When it's against another player, winning is fun but you also have to expect losses as well. Thus, losing should also be fun. I've had some very fun matches where I lost, but it was such a well fought match that it was all good. This isn't going to say that every lose, or even win, will be fun.

Aiming to win is never the problem. Asking or providing suggestions isn't the problem. The problem is when you demand the same playstyle or Min/Maxed builds on everyone around you, trying to force them to play what you perceive/know to be the best combo you can see. Sometimes, you have to let them learn things on their own and try to help them. Sometimes, someone can even surprise you with a tactic or combo you never would have seen that is not apparent, but is extremely effective. (I can recall a magic the gathering card that many competitive players said was useless. One person ended up creating a deck from said useless card and it trumped the competitive players deck every time. Sometimes, it can happen. Sometimes, people have to play their own way.)

Over competitiveness can be a bad thing. Not Competitiveness in and of itself. Like with anything in life, everything in it's proper place and it's proper amounts are healthy and good. Anything taken too far can become unhealthy and bad.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

Dimento Graven, on 01 February 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

If he only saw the quick "HEY SWITCH TO A JUMP LIGHT" until the very end because he was too busy 'fapping' away at furry manga while MWO was minimized, that's HIM being rude, not the other way around.

He dies because of his moronically stubborn view point, and quits in a huff further exacerbating the issue on the 11 other people.

I think you said something about not being rude or insulting? I think you might want to check that again. These are just two examples that I have found insulting and rude. There are far more of this, along with name calling mixed in there now (which is always rude and insulting unless of course they changed the definition of it...) Also saying "We got this." also implies that his presence there is not needed or wanted. So yes. Saying "We got this." is indeed telling someone to leave the game as they are no longer needed for it. Its not my fault that someone opened their mouth (or typed) before they thought things through.

Something else to consider. Being polite doesn't mean all that you imply. A simple please is nice, but how you phrase things makes an even bigger difference. I shall try to explain:

"Change to a jumping light mech."
This is a sentence. A statement. A Demand.

"Could you change to a jumping light mech?"
This is a question. Asking.

Do you now see how one is considered rude, and the other polite? There is a HUGE difference all in the tone. It really is amazing what two little words can do.

Now to finish, I do still have a question (or two). Why the need for a jumping light mech when you are going to blow the gate gen anyways (which would allow a non jumping light mech or two to not interrupt the general tactic that was employed). Why the need to blow this so far out of proportion that a fellow player felt so insulted that he felt he had no other recourse but to not only change worlds he was dropping on to avoid playing with said group again, but also have to leave the second game that he had after trying to avoid them, and then still feeling so insulted that he had to change factions to assure that he would not be dropping as this same (unnamed team's) teammate again?

I will also ask another question just because I am curious. Why even post this incident at all, in a thread that only has a relation to it based on who the OP is? I mean no one else would have even known about it except for the 24 players that were originally involved, and it would not look bad for either you (or your unit) or the OP (all depending upon view points). I mean this incident has no bearing on the OP's opinion or this thread and had no reason to be here at all except to potentially name and shame the OP. (Rather that was the intent or not is not the point that I am trying to make, just to clarify.)

[Ghogiel]

Pls continue pontificating about morals and honour with butthurt understones over "win at all costs" attitudes even though no one with play to win attitudes gives a toss about honour and mostly just respect people getting results.

Anyway this thread would have been pretty boring without the eastenders bits inbetween. I'm kidding. It's pretty boring anyway. I'm going through huge bags of popcorn reading these wall of txt QQs

Edited by Ghogiel, 01 February 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 01 February 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

I think you said something about not being rude or insulting? I think you might want to check that again. These are just two examples that I have found insulting and rude.

Neither were directed at you, why should you find them insulting or rude? One was a potential explanation as to why he'd sit there minutes on end while multiple people are trying to communicate with him a potential strategy and him not bothering to respond. The other is judgment of his actions and the results there of.

If you are offended or insulted, you're choosing to be so.

Do you not have enough "real" things actually directed AT YOU, personally, to deal with to NOT have enough time to worry about what others are saying about other people?

Or, are you actually Percival on an alt account?

Some of your responses have been from a rather, 'first person' perspective on the matter...

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There are far more of this, along with name calling mixed in there now (which is always rude and insulting unless of course they changed the definition of it...) Also saying "We got this." also implies that his presence there is not needed or wanted. So yes. Saying "We got this." is indeed telling someone to leave the game as they are no longer needed for it. Its not my fault that someone opened their mouth (or typed) before they thought things through.

The more you type, the more I believe you're an alt account for Percival.

First off, the "we" in "we got this" actually COULD have included HIM if he'd bothered not being jackass. HE excluded himself from the "WE" by his own words and conduct, which he made ultimately clear how much of a jackass he was by DC'ing and leaving his faction in a lurch.

I've seen nothing in anything you, or Percival has posted thus far to lead me to believe he's not one of another thousand "Rambozo's" in this game expecting the 11 other people unlucky enough to be on his team to act as his meat shields while he somehow wins the game all by himself through the majesty of his existance.

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Something else to consider. Being polite doesn't mean all that you imply. A simple please is nice, but how you phrase things makes an even bigger difference. I shall try to explain:

"Change to a jumping light mech."
This is a sentence. A statement. A Demand.

"Could you change to a jumping light mech?"
This is a question. Asking.

Do you now see how one is considered rude, and the other polite? There is a HUGE difference all in the tone. It really is amazing what two little words can do.

Look, now you're acting the jerk. (That's not an insult that's a judgment of response. Try and keep in mind the difference between, "You're a jerk" and "You're acting like a jerk.")

No one needs your pedantic meanderings about what is rude and what isn't.

How many f'ing times do we need to ask this person, "Do you have a jumping light?", "Can you switch to a jump capable light?", getting no response, while the clock ticks ever closer to launch, before we can start getting blunt him?

It's along the lines of having someone standing in your way, no other way to get around them, and they're just standing there, staring at god only knows what:

"Please excuse me." "Please move." "Hey, could you move?", "Hey, can you find another location?" "Dude, you're in the way." "Hey JERKWAD, MOVE YOUR FAT ASS!"

Eventually a lack of response calls for getting more blunt, and finally rude to get the self-absorbed's attention.

We never really did get rude with him until his throwing a fit about wanting to level up Pheonix 'mechs.

FYI: Any reasonable person is going to find it rude that you're LEVELING UP 'mechs in CW, a mode that theoretically all players participating it to play against anything but turrets are going to be more serious about.

And when it came to it, Percival didn't indicate that he had any jump capable 'mechs and by his own words, seems to indicate that he did not/does not have any, he refused to go to the champion trial 'mech that would have fit the bill.

He made ZERO accommodation to the 11 other people already cooperating. His excuse? He thought we were rude...

A perspective that all reasonable people would find EXTREMELY indicative of someone who feels THEY are more important than EVERYONE ELSE, AND BY GOD WE ALL HAD BETTER TREAT HIM THAT WAY OR HE'LL TAKE HIS BALL AND GO HOME.

Which he did.

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Now to finish, I do still have a question (or two). Why the need for a jumping light mech when you are going to blow the gate gen anyways (which would allow a non jumping light mech or two to not interrupt the general tactic that was employed). Why the need to blow this so far out of proportion that a fellow player felt so insulted that he felt he had no other recourse but to not only change worlds he was dropping on to avoid playing with said group again, but also have to leave the second game that he had after trying to avoid them, and then still feeling so insulted that he had to change factions to assure that he would not be dropping as this same (unnamed team's) teammate again?

First off, my statements to you on that indicated that not ALL strategies utilize blowing the gate every time they cross.

IN FACT, one very successful strategy ON THAT VERY MAP is for the ENTIRE GROUP to jump GAMMA, NOT BLOWING THE GATE, taking out Gen 1, and then jumping back over, leaving the gate closed to attack at one of the other two gates.

SOMETIMES it just doesn't happen opening the gate either by choice (as indicated above) or because the enemy doesn't allow you to (they gathered their forces RIGHT AT the gate, so taking time to get 2 or 3 alphas is NOT the right thing to do, instead to get past the enemy as quickly as possible to move on to killing Gens 1,2 and 3), so dependent on the state of the gate you could have a number of units USELESS waiting for the gate to open when it won't happen. Hence the very obvious need to have your entire force capable of jumping the gate on their own.

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I will also ask another question just because I am curious. Why even post this incident at all, in a thread that only has a relation to it based on who the OP is? I mean no one else would have even known about it except for the 24 players that were originally involved, and it would not look bad for either you (or your unit) or the OP (all depending upon view points). I mean this incident has no bearing on the OP's opinion or this thread and had no reason to be here at all except to potentially name and shame the OP. (Rather that was the intent or not is not the point that I am trying to make, just to clarify.)

You'll have to ask Percy on that. He's the one that decided he was so hurt he had to decry how a situation of his own making bears out that "over competitiveness" a COMPLETELY subjective term is somehow "ruining" this game. Especially when it's obvious from his own words and actions is what is 'ruining the game for him' is that people aren't treating him like the princess he believes he is.

And yes, when it comes to Percy, I've maintained a blunt and somewhat derogatory tone. ABSOLUTELY!

You don't take someone who STARTS OUT being unreasonable and try and reason with them.

You give them enough hints subtle and otherwise that you'd like him to go away and to not come back until they've grown up.

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 01 February 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

1. I did not ask anyone to change to my tactics, and I did not ask anyone to change their mechs.

You barely communicated at all, instead was mute almost the entire time in the lobby.

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2. I was demanded (not asked, there is still a difference) to change my mechs and my tactics. As those who actually know me can say, if I'm asked to preform a role, I often will. However, I was not asked.

What good does ONE 'mech doing its own thing really do in a match where TWELVE people are expected to be cooperating? Anyway, YOU WERE asked had you bothered being present in the lobby when the match was forming up. When it got down to the final moments before the launch and it was apparent you were ignoring everyone, yeah, it got blunt and rude.

That's what happens when you ignore people trying to communicate with you, eventually, their tone changes from polite to "WAKE UP FOOL!"

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3. For those who were not there, and I can post a screen shot to prove who was not there and who was if desired (but that'd be name and shame without that unit granting permission), stop talking like you know what happened. You have no idea what happened in those matches and are coming up with rather fictitious facts that did not occure.

A screen shot, A singular screen shot, will prove the entire scenario?!?!!!?

You seriously want a serious response to that?

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4. If your account you are posting with was not there, don't post about the incident with your "ghost" account. This only makes you look cowardly as you seem afraid to show your unit colors and the account in question.

An example of you trying to tell others what to do.

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5. For the match having less than a 10 man unit involved, which means only 6 other possible people were involved outside that unit, a lot of people seem to be saying "I was there and I know what happened".

Meh, that happens in the world of the internet. You get used to it.

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6. Your posts, and that incident, are irrelevant to the OP of this topic, and does not invalidate the topic nor the original post.

I assume you're talking to someone else with this...

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7. The attitude you continue to present to me continues to prove the point as to why I felt that the environment of that match within my own team dynamics was hostile and only continues to validate my reasons for leaving that match. Believe what you will. I can only go from my perspective and my experience.

Which from your own words and actions shows a tremendous self-centered arrogant ignorance skew on things.

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8. I have left a job, a real life job, for being in a similar situation. I do not have to tolerate it in a video game designed for people to have fun on. If I left a paying job for a similar situation, then leaving a match for the same reasons is nothing in comparison. If there is a problem with it, then PGI can deal with me as they see fit, as I'm sure reports went wild about it. It is not your job nor your responsibility to "punish me for my actions". That is PGI's responsibility and job. You have reported me for leaving the match? Then you should leave it to them to deal with me as they see fit.

You left a job because someone was rude to you? Or because you felt the company/people you were with were "over competitive"?

Really? Percy, are you SURE you want to admit that?

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9. The first match, we won by wave two. You guys where the ones who made the issue into as big of a deal as it was. Then, you continued to create a big deal about it throughout the match.

YOU were the one who wouldn't shut up. Had you shut the F up and focused on doing your best, there'd have been a LOT less complain about.

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10. I believe saying, "I suggest that light mechs scout the gates, and the slower mechs stay near the generators and move to intercept the enemy forces based on Intel the lights provide" is not a bad suggestion for the defense on the second match in question. Being told "Don't worry, we have it" is a very rude response to a possible plan, when one could have simply laid out a different plan instead. All that, because they decided to continue their poor attitude from the previous match we had together. I did not have to tolerate a second match of the same poor sportsmanship. In the end, I only feel bad for the other two pugs in the match, as the unit was the ones responsible for me having to make my decision.

That's not how or what you stated as I recall, AND, again the strategy that was going to be utilized was typed into the lobby well before hand.

The fact is "intel" was already being taken care of. We needed everyone performing the SAME strategy targeting the SAME sets of 'mechs, not trying to inflate their K/D ratio by targeting only the weakened 'mechs.

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11. The Screen Capture was/is broken within the game itself. So many of my print screens I took did not get saved and copied over the previous print screen. Thus, when I went to look for the screen captures and they were not there, the print screens where lost. I managed to save one, showing the team of the second match in question. So yes, this actually happened. It happened in the last patch, when they moved the user folder and changed the user folder so it was suppose to show the profile's name. Now there is nothing contained within the "user" folder within the program folders, for the moment. I also checked my Documents folder encase PGI managed to move the folder outside the game folder and into a My Document address.

PrtScrn has ALWAYS worked for me. I PrtScrn, alt-tab out, open up WordPad/MSPaint, Ctrl-V, then save the file.

Pretty easy to do, and not reliant on PGI.

If it's important, you find a way.

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12. This will be my last response to you all (in that group).

We'll see... You never shut up during that one match, I find it difficult to believe you'd shut up here.

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I've explained my reasons. I have taken steps to avoid playing with that group, even to the hindrance of my own playing abilities.

HINDERANCE OF YOUR OWN PLAYING ABILITIES?!@?!@?!

Explain to us how changing faction makes you a worse player, or are you implying that everyone in your current faction isn't playing up to the same level as Davion?

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My story has not shifted, while your remarks seem to shift like sand in the wind. I admit what actions I did, while you continue to deny your own participation within that event.

What? You admit to DC'ing at the beginning of match, AGAIN, because you could not bear to include yourself in "WE".

You don't admit to ALL THE OTHER mistakes you made, namely ignoring the lobby until the last minute, not thinking, "Hey, were these guys trying to talk to me earlier when I wasn't looking? Or should I just immediately be offended because I'm not being treated like her royal highness?" Continuously haranguing the everyone else for perceived rudeness, etc.

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Your remarks shall be your own undoing, as you continue to embolden my own point within the OP of this thread. You were not as innocent as you seem to be trying to make yourselves to be. I can admit my own faults and my own mistakes.

Yeah thanks.

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You seem to wish to resort to name calling (Percival for one example here at least) and continued harassing remarks about an incident I have no denied.

Yes, I've called you 'Percival' and I've called some of your attitudes and actions stubborn and worse, all of them you've earned.

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Feel free to continue to bump this thread though. It does not hinder me any.

PS: https://www.google.c...ival+definition
Percival was a knight of the round table. Maybe this is a great compliment?

Yeah Percy, take it as a compliment, or you can continue with your earlier attempt to indicate it as an insult.

Fortunately for everyone here, I leave the choice up to you.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 01 February 2015 - 10:55 PM.

[Tesunie]

Dimento Graven,
You where not in the match. Your facts are fictitious and are not what happened. The more you talk about "what happened", the more you make up more facts.

You also continue to resort to name calling, but that isn't rude at all, right? You haven't been rude in this thread at all, right?

You treat someone poorly, and don't expect them to leave when "You give them enough hints subtle and otherwise that you'd like him to go away", and then you throw a hissy fit when they do leave. Contradictory statement much?

I suggest you talk to that unit more before you open your mouth again. Your story changed again by the way. I love how your story changes each time you post, but yet mine remains the same. But, by all means. Continue to post here. Continue to bump this thread. I thank you for it.

[Mogney]

Attacking the messenger in no way detracts from the message, most of these threads are nonsense that I just skimmed.

What the OP fails to understand, and is often a cause of strife between the competitive types and the casual types, is that to a competitive type, these two sentences mean the exact same thing.

I am playing this game for fun.
I am playing this game to win.

*Puts on his try-hard hat and t-shirt*

[Joseph Mallan]

Jman5, on 30 January 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

You're right that you can't please everyone. However I think it's pretty doable to find common themes that most players can agree is "fun" and "not fun". For example, I think if you asked a reasonable player if they found suicide generator rushing fun for either side they would say no. I'm sure some players find it thrilling, but not enough to ruin the experience for the rest.

I would say in teh right context and as an occasional requirement it can be fun. But if it is a normal Tactic... Well Setting up on D4 cause the enemy always comes from E6... Can be just as boring a way to win.

Also this:

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To Summarize:
Competitiveness and competition are not bad. It is healthy and normal.
Respect, honor and integrity should never be compromised for competitiveness. This doesn't mean not to use everything you can, it means to treat others respectfully. I'd rather people know me as a helpful person rather than "that jerk".
Be helpful to others. This not only can improve your future teams and opponents, but also improves new/other player experiences.
Have fun. Never forget it's just a game. Try to make it fun for yourself and for others.

Is true no matter the source.

I have not dropped with the OP in a while, so I don't know how may or may not act in game. But his Message is spot on.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 February 2015 - 05:32 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie I recommend you to not play MWO for 2 month after the day it launches on steam, because then you will probably have a lot issues with getting insulted.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

I do need to extend a small apology to you Dimento Graven as you are correct. You have not be openly rude to me, but to Tesunie (and when taken in the context of this thread alone, would appear to be you being rude and insulting to him, but him not being so... unless there was something that I missed back there, which is quite possible). The closest you get is by not taking my posts seriously early on. The rude response came more so from Stoned Prophet (Profit?) whom is responding with an alternate account if he was really there. However you are not on the list of players from Tesunie's screen shot that I've seen from the second match that he DCed in. If you are also responding from an alternate account, then could you please at least name the account you used that was in that match?

As for my still standing question: Why even post this incident at all, in a thread that only has a relation to it based on who the OP is?

It still remains unanswered. You say to ask him, but he never mentioned this incident in his OP, so why is it brought up by Stoned Prophet? If anything I would have to ask him that question. But why do you continue to roll with this as well, as it clearly has nothing to do with the Original Post here, and neither one of us seems to have all our facts right or were active players there in that match (the DCed one at least). In the original OP he never said that competitiveness was bad, nor ruining this game. He stated that taken to far, competitiveness can ruin the game experience for other players. (When someone tells you how to set up your mechs, How to play your mechs, That your builds are horrible etc... These are now forcing other people to play a game by your standards. We've all seen this, especially in Pug matches.)

As for his actions in the game, neither party has any proof as to what happened, and it is highly unreasonable to drag this incident into a thread that has nothing to do with it just simply to attack someone. If there is another reason besides, attack the Original Poster, or attempt to Name and Shame him, then please let me know. I have thought long and hard for other reasons for these actions and these are the only two I can come up with that make any sense. Now maybe its just me and my perspective, maybe I am correct in my guesses here, who know. If you have screen shots of the conversation, then ask Tesunie if it would be OK to post those here to better clarify these facts, or even a recording of that match (some people record all their matches, perhaps you or your team are one of those people).

As a side note there are other reasons to use the phoenix pack mechs besides leveling them up (considering Tesunie's Phoenix mechs are Mastered already). They do give 30% C-bill boost and 10% LP boost (which LP can only be gathered through CW, which means that this aspect of the mech is made for CW...). Does it seem insulting when put this way? Also, would you perfer a mech that is mastered or a mech that doesn't have basics done? The champion Firestarter would be unmastered, which means it's performance would be lower then a mastered mech that you know the build of and don't have to get used to the different weapon systems and their location on the mech. Just trying to give you some food for thought, encase your brain was hungry

I will answer my own question to you about why I was trying to get you folks to stop posting this incident in this thread.
1) It really has no reason to be here.
2) it would appear that you are 'bullying' Tesunie (something I can't stand, and by more then one person attacking only one person)
3) Because I watch some of this incident unfold, and had some knowledge to input on this subject.</p>
4) Was also curious as to why a jumping light only, as there are many ways to use a pug who can't/don't want to pilot a jumping light mech. They just get stuck with the boring job of decoy or would have to destroy the gate gen/turrets on his own (opening the path for the next non-jumping wave without slowing down the other 11 players).

To end this I shall give you a riddle (I'm told they can be quite fun )

First a hint: I am not an alternate account.

The Riddle:
I was not an active player, but was there to see.
I was not logged in, but watched them play.
Who am I?

Edited by Nathan Bloodguard, 02 February 2015 - 09:10 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 02 February 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

First a hint: I am not an alternate account.

The Riddle:
I was not an active player, but was there to see.
I was not logged in, but watched them play.
Who am I?

The Server or Devs?

[Dimento Graven]

Nathan Bloodguard, on 02 February 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

I do need to extend a small apology to you Dimento Graven as you are correct. You have not be openly rude to me, but to Tesunie (and when taken in the context of this thread alone, would appear to be you being rude and insulting to him, but him not being so... unless there was something that I missed back there, which is quite possible). The closest you get is by not taking my posts seriously early on. The rude response came more so from Stoned Prophet (Profit?) whom is responding with an alternate account if he was really there. However you are not on the list of players from Tesunie's screen shot that I've seen from the second match that he DCed in. If you are also responding from an alternate account, then could you please at least name the account you used that was in that match?

I believe I was there for the first match (if it wasn't that match then a very similarly named individual pulled ALMOST the exact same silliness). The second match (I had to drop out to take care of some RL issues) was relayed to me as it happened.

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As for my still standing question: Why even post this incident at all, in a thread that only has a relation to it based on who the OP is? It still remains unanswered. You say to ask him, but he never mentioned this incident in his OP, so why is it brought up by Stoned Prophet?

I'm only responding because I was involved in at least one of the incidents that it seemed obvious to me spawned his ire for competitive play, and the fact that the incident apparently inspires him to bemoan how "over competitiveness" (again, a COMPLETELY subjective term) is somehow ruining the game, and from my perspective decrying an entire player-base for wanting to 'win too much.'

If the point isn't to win, why keep score and why reward one side more than the other based on results?

If you don't care about winning, why play?

For me I practice that attitude towards lots of things, golf for instance. I don't care whether I win or lose, and as such, I rarely play. Do I get pissy when people yell at me to get the F out of the way when I wander onto the local public fairway while walking my dog?

Hell no.

I was being an unobservant self-absorbed ass at the time and thank god they yelled at my ass rather than slice a ball directly into my forehead. I apologize, grab my stupid dog, and GTFO.

When I have played and some group wants to play through because I've decided to 'challenge' myself by playing the entire course (including putting) with nothing but a 3-iron, do I get pissy if some people 'play through' without a word? No, my first thought is, "Gee, did I miss their call?" If they make snarky remarks about my choice of club do I get all huffy? Hell no, I'm an idiot for playing that way, I should expect to receive some well deserved razzing.

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If anything I would have to ask him that question. But why do you continue to roll with this as well, as it clearly has nothing to do with the Original Post here, and neither one of us seems to have all our facts right or were active players there in that match (the DCed one at least). In the original OP he never said that competitiveness was bad, nor ruining this game. He stated that taken to far, competitiveness can ruin the game experience for other players. (When someone tells you how to set up your mechs, How to play your mechs, That your builds are horrible etc... These are now forcing other people to play a game by your standards. We've all seen this, especially in Pug matches.)

When the subject came around the matches, both from Prophet's and his discussion I had to step in, having been there at the first round.

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As for his actions in the game, neither party has any proof as to what happened, and it is highly unreasonable to drag this incident into a thread that has nothing to do with it just simply to attack someone. If there is another reason besides, attack the Original Poster, or attempt to Name and Shame him, then please let me know. I have thought long and hard for other reasons for these actions and these are the only two I can come up with that make any sense. Now maybe its just me and my perspective, maybe I am correct in my guesses here, who know. If you have screen shots of the conversation, then ask Tesunie if it would be OK to post those here to better clarify these facts, or even a recording of that match (some people record all their matches, perhaps you or your team are one of those people).

We have his own words. He DC'd from a match because he couldn't include himself in "we". We have his other statements too. I don't understand why he felt the need to complain about competitiveness and whine about not being treated politely all the time.

That doesn't happen in real life, even with members of professional teams in professional sports who know and work with each other for upwards of decades, why should there be any expectation of it in a video game filled with unpaid strangers?

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As a side note there are other reasons to use the phoenix pack mechs besides leveling them up (considering Tesunie's Phoenix mechs are Mastered already). They do give 30% C-bill boost and 10% LP boost (which LP can only be gathered through CW, which means that this aspect of the mech is made for CW...). Does it seem insulting when put this way?

You know what gives a bonus to cbills, LP, and experience? Winning. You get zero LP for losing, and if you're not actually coordinating with the 11 other people on your team to win, your chances of doing so decrease.

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Also, would you perfer a mech that is mastered or a mech that doesn't have basics done? The champion Firestarter would be unmastered, which means it's performance would be lower then a mastered mech that you know the build of and don't have to get used to the different weapon systems and their location on the mech. Just trying to give you some food for thought, encase your brain was hungry

For that critical first wave, with the strategy that was being employed, the one that can be the 'make or break' wave it's critical that all 'mechs be of similar speed and capability. In the Champion Firestarter that was available the difference in performance between a mastered and non-mastered 'mech is minimal, I think what... maybe 15kph slower without speed tweak (going from mem here I could be wrong) and 1.5 less alpha without the heat skills... Other than that the effect of everything is a lot less tangible.

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I will answer my own question to you about why I was trying to get you folks to stop posting this incident in this thread.
1) It really has no reason to be here.
2) it would appear that you are 'bullying' Tesunie (something I can't stand, and by more then one person attacking only one person)
3) Because I watch some of this incident unfold, and had some knowledge to input on this subject.&lt;/p&gt;
4) Was also curious as to why a jumping light only, as there are many ways to use a pug who can't/don't want to pilot a jumping light mech. They just get stuck with the boring job of decoy or would have to destroy the gate gen/turrets on his own (opening the path for the next non-jumping wave without slowing down the other 11 players).

There are some valid points.

We aren't bullying him, but we want him to understand he was as rude to us as he believes we were to him and that the level of his inconsiderate behavior was greater than anyone else's as it affected more than just one person.

The fact that his happened at all and he came here to decry that over competitiveness is a problem and ruining the game, leads me to believe his duration in ANY faction is going to be short lived.

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To end this I shall give you a riddle (I'm told they can be quite fun )

First a hint: I am not an alternate account.

The Riddle:
I was not an active player, but was there to see.
I was not logged in, but watched them play.
Who am I?

Good riddle and there are several possible answers.

Someone staring over the shoulder of someone actually playing or someone watching a stream/recorded vid of the event.

I'm guessing the later and as you've as much as said so, a personal IRL friend of Percival. Or is the fact that your and his accounts appear to have been created within days of each other just a coincidence?

Other than that the only other thing I can think of to match the credentials you're using is a 'self-aware turret', but I thought only Liao employed those...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 February 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 02 February 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

Tesunie I recommend you to not play MWO for 2 month after the day it launches on steam, because then you will probably have a lot issues with getting insulted.

Unless the steam players form a unit and comprise as most of my team and start insulting me, I will play with them. A single PUG throwing around insults is ignorable. When almost the entire team starts to do so and plays accordingly, I'm not sticking around to help out that unit again. One match was enough, but thanks.

Dimento Graven, on 02 February 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'm only responding because I was involved in at least one of the incidents that it seemed obvious to me spawned his ire for competitive play, and the fact that the incident apparently inspires him to bemoan how "over competitiveness" (again, a COMPLETELY subjective term) is somehow ruining the game, and from my perspective decrying an entire player-base for wanting to 'win too much.'

If the point isn't to win, why keep score and why reward one side more than the other based on results?

If you don't care about winning, why play?

If that is what you got out of the OP, then you missed the point completely. Cause that is not what I said in the OP. Read the summarized section even if you don't wish to read the whole post.

And so, you are attacking me (which is what your name calling is by the way) because you feel my OP said something it didn't? Or do you go on this attack only because of whom I am and not what my OP says?

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 02 February 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

If that is what you got out of the OP, then you missed the point completely. Cause that is not what I said in the OP. Read the summarized section even if you don't wish to read the whole post.

I'll go ahead and re-re-re-read it...

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And so, you are attacking me (which is what your name calling is by the way) because you feel my OP said something it didn't? Or do you go on this attack only because of whom I am and not what my OP says?

I thought you were choosing to take the name "Percival" as a complement.

Changed your mind?

[Joseph Mallan]

The point is to win. But at what cost do we win? And then what is fun for some is not fun for others. So if Winning is goal How we are as winners should also be important. And even more what Kind of loser we are. Losses are much funner when joked about than obsessed over.