55 replies to this topic

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

With the latest info release from PGI and the February roadmap, we are about to receive a large change to how Defenders will be dealing with Attackers who have breached there Base.

See here:

Counter Attacks
- When defending territory that you have taken as an attacker you will no longer play invasion game mode but a new one were calling Counter attack.
- In this game mode the gates are already open, the turrets are not present and the generators including the Omega are offline.
- Teams will engage in a Skirmish game match to hold the territory.

Win conditions are:
- to destroy the entire enemy team as well as to take out the enemy team’s mobile field base.
~ In an auto win situation the win condition will be to destroy the mobile field base.

Released Feb 3rd patch.

So here's the question,
Do you think this will make the whole take/lose/retake battles for Planets a more fluid operation? And fun?
~ Or just another way we'll see deployment area's being camped?
~ Do we need the DropShips weapons returned to there increased defaults?

I do like the idea that the attackers have not had sufficient time or resources to 'get the Base functional' before reinforcements start arriving. And may be an interesting method or mode to start to introduce some Ai elements?

Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 02 February 2015 - 06:14 PM.

[Artgathan]

Hope everyone's ready to play 'catch the last ECM spider'.

Ah, metagaming at it's finest.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Its just another game mode for CW. Easiest one to implement as well. I do expect the hide and seek game could become an issue.

I wouldn't expect to see spawn camping become an issue since there is really no reason to defend the field base. That is just in place so ghost drops can continue to function until they come up with something better for those.

I think both dropships should get the attacker loadouts since there are no other objectives.

Edited by Rouken, 02 February 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[stratagos]

Logically they should call the game after five minutes of no (successful) weapons fire.

[MoonUnitBeta]

It’s too simple in my books.

I’d really like to see PGI go further with game modes in CW. Something like where the counter-attacked side must collect resources (bundles parachuted down) which contain tools, materials, etc and bring those to turrets and generators to gain control of the base. Allowing them to reclose gates, set up defences, and rebuild the base in the ultimate struggle to starting up the orbital cannon again. Because let's face it. What's more exciting? Standing around in the base that you just took over, waiting for a counter attack, or being caught with your pants down trying to refit the base for your own needs, and as if things couldn't get any worse, the calvary arrives and you need to protect yourselves from them.

Mechs would need to be in proximity of turrets, generators etc inorder to activate them to rebuild. The more mechs around something, the faster it rebuilds. And collecting resources is needed so that the rebuilding can continue. It’s up to the team if they want to focus on bringing all the resources to the canon, or destroy/hold off the enemy team until they are left unopposed. Which would obviously grant them control of the base, ending the counter attack.

This puts a big role on defending turrets or generators while they are being rebuilt, and a role for light mechs as messengers distributing resources around the base.

I dunno… Maybe that’s too hard or complex… but I’m not a fan of simple anymore.
I was really hoping that CW would stretch things out, adding more interesting functions to game modes. Attack/defend is good, but it all could be quite better.

The ultimate would be to have a planet as a huge open map per planet that supports 64+ players, with tanks, planes, resource collection, base control, territory claiming, etc.

[Antigones]

Win conditions are:
- to destroy the entire enemy team as well as to take out the enemy team’s mobile field base.
~ In an auto win situation the win the condition will be to destroy the mobile field base.



So, what if a single ECM Spider and/or another ecm mech shuts down ???? You defeated the enemy team, destroyed the hq and you still loose cause you cant find that last mech

[Mystere]

Artgathan, on 02 February 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Hope everyone's ready to play 'catch the last ECM spider'.

Ah, metagaming at it's finest.

Well, I counter your ECM Spider with my impossible to find ECM Mist Lynx.

[WarHippy]

Antigones, on 02 February 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Win conditions are:
- to destroy the entire enemy team as well as to take out the enemy team’s mobile field base.
~ In an auto win situation the win the condition will be to destroy the mobile field base.



So, what if a single ECM Spider and/or another ecm mech shuts down ???? You defeated the enemy team, destroyed the hq and you still loose cause you cant find that last mech

If any defender is still alive at the end of timer the defenders win. Very poorly thought out, and frankly I'm not looking forward to playing counter attacks.

[Deathlike]

If you think the use of strict attrition is "bad", then you're going to hate this mode.

It's highly uninspired and it basically boils down to being better at Skirmish with respawn.

[Roadbeer]

I'll just file this game mode under "Be Careful What You Wish For"

Along with the original Skirmish Mode, Clan Mechs and the Urbie.

The tears of those who begged for a Skirmish mode and find out it's exactly what they didn't want will be delicious.

[Davers]

Skirmish mode with no VOIP, 12 mans vs pugs. I would have delayed this until they put VOIP in. At least in modes where there are objectives, a pug team can beat a premade. But Skirmish is 100% about focus fire and calling targets. Why is CW replaying all their previous mistakes we learned from Beta?

[Prawfutt]

9erRed, on 02 February 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

- When defending territory that you have taken as an attacker you will no longer play invasion game mode but a new one were calling Counter attack.
- In this game mode the gates are already open, the turrets are not present and the generators including the Omega are offline.
- Teams will engage in a Skirmish game match to hold the territory.

Win conditions are:
- to destroy the entire enemy team as well as to take out the enemy team’s mobile field base.
~ In an auto win situation the win the condition will be to destroy the mobile field base.

If the mobile field base is a destructable objective then

• Light Rush, a very successful tactic that is already complained about often, now only has 1 target again and does not even have to worry about the deadeyed turrets.
  
• time to win using light rush tactics is reduced even further than what it currently is. Currently using clan "slow light rush" tactics my units current best time is 3:20 with having 3 gens and omega to hit. I am certain IS fast light rush teams have even better times.
  
• The planetary defenders gain a small advantage of being able to flip zones faster than the attackers likely by ~1 minute which does not seem like much but with first 12 man in que is "attacker/counter attacker" it is more of an issue.
  
• It actually promotes Light rush to prevent planets from being taken.

if the mobile field base is NOT a destructable object.

• Counter attacks are attrition only.
  
• Planetary attackers gain a huge advantage. (exact opposite of 3rd bullet point above) Time to win goes up dramatically for the planetary defenders. average attrition win is ~20 minutes. If we guess the average Light Rush is ~5 minutes then the attackers have a chance to take 4 zones while your defenders are busy fighting an attrition battle for one
  
• players will make more money because light rush is not available but defending planets vs teams who play to objectives while attacking will be impossible.

Just my .02

[Joe Mallad]

Sorry guys but hide and seek is and has always Ben a function/tactic in BT/MW. If you guys can't handle a little mech that is meant to be a harraser/sneak/hider type and don't want to take the time to seek it out when it's doing what it does best (hide) than maybe this isn't the game for you.

You better believe if I'm in a light mech and my main role it to spot, relay info and harrase when I can, and I happen to be the last mech left... I'm making you ALL come find me. In no way am I going to just give you a free kill because I'm the only one left. You want to win a game, than play and come get me. Otherwise, you don't like the hide and seek play style, you can always DC and give me the win

Roadbeer, on 02 February 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'll just file this game mode under "Be Careful What You Wish For"

Along with the original Skirmish Mode, Clan Mechs and the Urbie.

The tears of those who begged for a Skirmish mode and find out it's exactly what they didn't want will be delicious.

CW needs more game modes and did need some form of skirmish. CW should be about many game modes and different mission types.

[Mystere]

Davers, on 02 February 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Skirmish mode with no VOIP, 12 mans vs pugs. I would have delayed this until they put VOIP in. At least in modes where there are objectives, a pug team can beat a premade. But Skirmish is 100% about focus fire and calling targets. Why is CW replaying all their previous mistakes we learned from Beta?

Skirmish mode in CW is fine. But, the current CW maps are the wrong settings for it. Having Skirmish on those will be brutal for the disorganized.

[Davers]

Prawfut Bludskin, on 02 February 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

If the mobile field base is a destructable objective then

• Light Rush, a very successful tactic that is already complained about often, now only has 1 target again and does not even have to worry about the deadeyed turrets.
  
• time to win using light rush tactics is reduced even further than what it currently is. Currently using clan "slow light rush" tactics my units current best time is 3:20 with having 3 gens and omega to hit. I am certain IS fast light rush teams have even better times.
  
• The planetary defenders gain a small advantage of being able to flip zones faster than the attackers likely by ~1 minute which does not seem like much but with first 12 man in que is "attacker/counter attacker" it is more of an issue.
  
• It actually promotes Light rush to prevent planets from being taken.

if the mobile field base is NOT a destructable object.

• Counter attacks are attrition only.
  
• Planetary attackers gain a huge advantage. (exact opposite of 3rd bullet point above) Time to win goes up dramatically for the planetary defenders. average attrition win is ~20 minutes. If we guess the average Light Rush is ~5 minutes then the attackers have a chance to take 4 zones while your defenders are busy fighting an attrition battle for one
  
• players will make more money because light rush is not available but defending planets vs teams who play to objectives while attacking will be impossible.

Just my .02

1. Light rushes where you have to destroy 3 generators and Omega take under 2 minutes if you know what you are doing. This will be a 1 minute ghost drop.
2. The base is secondary to killing mechs. It's what you shoot after the battle is over.

Edited by Davers, 02 February 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[Mystere]

Prawfut Bludskin, on 02 February 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

If the mobile field base is a destructable objective then

• Light Rush, a very successful tactic that is already complained about often, now only has 1 target again and does not even have to worry about the deadeyed turrets.
  
• time to win using light rush tactics is reduced even further than what it currently is. Currently using clan "slow light rush" tactics my units current best time is 3:20 with having 3 gens and omega to hit. I am certain IS fast light rush teams have even better times.
  
• The planetary defenders gain a small advantage of being able to flip zones faster than the attackers likely by ~1 minute which does not seem like much but with first 12 man in que is "attacker/counter attacker" it is more of an issue.
  
• It actually promotes Light rush to prevent planets from being taken.

if the mobile field base is NOT a destructable object.

• Counter attacks are attrition only.
  
• Planetary attackers gain a huge advantage. (exact opposite of 3rd bullet point above) Time to win goes up dramatically for the planetary defenders. average attrition win is ~20 minutes. If we guess the average Light Rush is ~5 minutes then the attackers have a chance to take 4 zones while your defenders are busy fighting an attrition battle for one
  
• players will make more money because light rush is not available but defending planets vs teams who play to objectives while attacking will be impossible.

Just my .02

You missed the "kill all enemy Mechs" victory condition. It's Skirmish after all.

[Roadbeer]

Yoseful Mallad, on 02 February 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

CW needs more game modes and did need some form of skirmish. CW should be about many game modes and different mission types.

I don't disagree that more modes are better, but Skirmish is bad, it's going to make the shellacking that PUGs already take and turn it into a complete rout.

[Vlad Ward]

You won't be able to win by just destroying the MFB. Russ mentioned in the Town Hall that it was only included to give ghost drops an objective to complete.

[RG Notch]

Deathlike, on 02 February 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

If you think the use of strict attrition is "bad", then you're going to hate this mode.

It's highly uninspired and it basically boils down to being better at Skirmish with respawn.

I think if you google uninspired and lack of foresight you get the PGI logo.

[Prawfutt]

Mystere, on 02 February 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

You missed the "kill all enemy Mechs" victory condition. It's Skirmish after all.

No look at the 2nd part of my post about if the mobile field base is NOT destructible IE:Kill all enemy mechs